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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old Aug 19th, 2004, 11:17 AM Thread Starter
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Flink about evert+vote best shot

Fantastic interview to Steve Flink at chrisevert.net

+ there's a poll about best point at us open. vote for chris&martina here:

http://www.heineken.com/usa/cc/usa/u...otingmain.html
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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old Aug 19th, 2004, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinapin54
Fantastic interview to Steve Flink at chrisevert.net

+ there's a poll about best point at us open. vote for chris&martina here:

http://www.heineken.com/usa/cc/usa/u...otingmain.html
The clip seems to be from their match in the 1981 US Open semis, and not the 1983 US Open final as mentioned on the website. Evert's got her 1981 ribbon look, and Navratilova's wearing the line of clothes she used to wear back in 81-82.

Best left-right combination by a German (and that includes Max Schmeling): Steffi Graf. All she did in 1987 was knock Navratilova out of #1 and try to knock Evert out of the sport. (Mike Lupica in "The Best and Worst of Tennis in 1987", World Tennis)

"A couple of years ago, we nicknamed Steffi Graf's forehand 'Jaws'. And that music would go perfectly when she starts running in to the net, swarming on that little ball." (JoAnne Russell, during the 1988 Wimbledon final between Graf and Navratilova)
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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old Aug 19th, 2004, 11:34 AM
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Thanks pinapin54. What a fantastic internview.


Here's the link: http://www.chrisevert.net/flink.html
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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old Aug 19th, 2004, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinapin54
Fantastic interview to Steve Flink at chrisevert.net

+ there's a poll about best point at us open. vote for chris&martina here:

http://www.heineken.com/usa/cc/usa/u...otingmain.html
Marvellous read and many wonderful insights and memories. Thanks for the link.

Of course it dissapoints me to read his take on Court, virtually dismissing her majestic record even after Stevie Craig made the effort to include her astonishing GS strike rate apart from the Aussie Open. Still, he is entitled to his opinion and I respect that.

Loved reading about the various match up of the players against the top liners. Some great questions there Stevie
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old Aug 19th, 2004, 12:02 PM
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Craig,
Was this your question?

Q-13: Here are the career-long strike rates for reaching grand slam finals: Court: 0.62 Evert: 0.61. Graf: 0.57 …Navratilova is 5th behind Goolagong.

Then the Grand Slam WINNING strike-rate (based career-long from the last year a grand slam was won, to account for age, and for historical fairness, minus the Aussie Open which was usually not played by the top players throughout the 70s): Court & Evert are tied at 42%, Steffi Graf is just a breath away on 41% (but with no Monica), Navratilova is at 33%, King is at 29%.

And the most obscene testament to Evert’s strength as all-time great, the strike rate for reaching Grand Slam semis (INCLUDING Aussie Open & until retirement year), career-long: EVERT 0.929, COURT 0.766, GRAF 0.685, NAVRATILOVA 0.677.

How do you look at the issue of the ‘best singles player ever’ discussion? Some people suggest there are simply tiers (Lenglen, Court, Evert, Wills Moody, Navratilova, Graf) followed by (Connolly, Seles, King, Goolagong) etc. – What is YOUR first, second, and possibly 3rd tier on the all-time great female players list?

.or someone else's from BFTP. I had deja vu reading it
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old Aug 19th, 2004, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCP
Craig,
Was this your question?

Q-13: Here are the career-long strike rates for reaching grand slam finals: Court: 0.62 Evert: 0.61. Graf: 0.57 …Navratilova is 5th behind Goolagong.

Then the Grand Slam WINNING strike-rate (based career-long from the last year a grand slam was won, to account for age, and for historical fairness, minus the Aussie Open which was usually not played by the top players throughout the 70s): Court & Evert are tied at 42%, Steffi Graf is just a breath away on 41% (but with no Monica), Navratilova is at 33%, King is at 29%.

And the most obscene testament to Evert’s strength as all-time great, the strike rate for reaching Grand Slam semis (INCLUDING Aussie Open & until retirement year), career-long: EVERT 0.929, COURT 0.766, GRAF 0.685, NAVRATILOVA 0.677.

How do you look at the issue of the ‘best singles player ever’ discussion? Some people suggest there are simply tiers (Lenglen, Court, Evert, Wills Moody, Navratilova, Graf) followed by (Connolly, Seles, King, Goolagong) etc. – What is YOUR first, second, and possibly 3rd tier on the all-time great female players list?

.or someone else's from BFTP. I had deja vu reading it
Hi BCP

That was Stevie's question but I think he quoted from a few of my old posts which I am more than happy about.
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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old Aug 19th, 2004, 12:17 PM
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There were a couple of BFTP moments in that interview. I kinda agree with you that he was particularly harsh on Madge. I think that he wasn't a fan of hers, but he may not be as aware of her record (though this would be VERY hard to believe............)
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old Aug 19th, 2004, 12:27 PM
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That interview is compelling reading and the questions were great. I agree, Craig, that he dismisses Court's wins in Oz summarily and all too lightly (I smell BJK and it aint rosy). Some of the years when Court won Oz (esp. 60,65,69) were very strong and there are other slams where the field has been weak on occasion (RG in 74, 75 and 79 come to mind).

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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old Aug 19th, 2004, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCP
There were a couple of BFTP moments in that interview. I kinda agree with you that he was particularly harsh on Madge. I think that he wasn't a fan of hers, but he may not be as aware of her record (though this would be VERY hard to believe............)
BCP ... it's funny how there are many tennis fans and journos who are not particularly fond of Madge. I can attribute it to a number of factors:

1- She was very conservative in her presentation. When many of the gals during the 60s looked glamorous in their stunning Teddy Tinling creations, Madge opted for rather the conservative Fred Perry line. I don't think this won her too many admirers. She looked positively dowdy compared to most of her rivals.

2- She wasn't as feminine looking as many of the other stars of the era eg. Bueno, Goolagong, Wade, Evert, Turner, Reynolds and so on.

3- She played like a man. Had the most powerful serve on tour, huge reach, attacking game. Not as attractive in her shotmaking as Goolagong, Evert, Buneo etc. Her shots were more like thunderbolts than arrows.

4- She was pretty much dominant during most of her career. Naturally many opted to cheer for the underdogs.

5- Most likely an element of jealousy amongst her many of her peers for her extraordinary record. I have no doubt about this aspect.

6- Lack of positive press. Most of the press on Margaret these days focusses on her opinions on homosexuality rather than her tennis exploits. Very rarely will you ever see an accurate article on her career. Most journos have innacurate and incomplete data to go by eg. they think Navratilova has won the most tournaments ever. There is no real accessible data (except for these great threads) that documents Court's deeds. Most journos are badly misinformed and players from the pre-Open era are largely disadvantaged.

7- Out of sight. Margaret has basically left the sport behind in her search for God. Out of sight, out of mind. Many of the other greats continue their involvement in the sport and stay firmly implanted in the minds of older and new fans.

Anyway, just some of my thoughts about why Madge isn't as popular as many other heroines from our sport. You all know how much I admire the tennis player that was Margaret Court. I have been lucky to have seen many of her matches (on tape) and met the woman.

But this thread is really about Chris Evert, and Christine Maree is another of my all time favourite tennis idols so happy to hand the thread back to this living legend. Now if I could just get hold of one of Evert's Teddy Tinling outfits to go with the collection.
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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old Aug 19th, 2004, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tennisvideos
But this thread is really about Chris Evert, and Christine Maree is another of my all time favourite tennis idols so happy to hand the thread back to this living legend. Now if I could just get hold of one of Evert's Teddy Tinling outfits to go with the collection.
Tennisvideos, what tournament was it where Frankie Durr, frustrated with how she was playing, yelled out something like "I don't even know what the hell I'm doing here, Chrees is going to win anyway."?

Best left-right combination by a German (and that includes Max Schmeling): Steffi Graf. All she did in 1987 was knock Navratilova out of #1 and try to knock Evert out of the sport. (Mike Lupica in "The Best and Worst of Tennis in 1987", World Tennis)

"A couple of years ago, we nicknamed Steffi Graf's forehand 'Jaws'. And that music would go perfectly when she starts running in to the net, swarming on that little ball." (JoAnne Russell, during the 1988 Wimbledon final between Graf and Navratilova)
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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old Aug 19th, 2004, 01:19 PM
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Tennisvideos, what tournament was it where Frankie Durr, frustrated with how she was playing, yelled out something like "I don't even know what the hell I'm doing here, Chrees is going to win anyway."?
Hi Samn - LOL about that quote. I am not sure what specific tournament, I have heard the quote before, and I am sure she came out with it many times when Evert was in the draw! Poor Frankie - "Chrees" was the only top player that she never beat so it was little wonder she screamed this out. I think the only thing that frustrated her more than Evert were the flies in Australia. She was forever screaming out "Get away your Fucking Flies" - I've got a few classic screams on tape!

BTW, I think Steve downplayed Frankie's 6-1 6-1 drubbing of Navratilova in the 75 Colgate Inagural. I mean Navratilova was the #2 seeds in one of the hottest fields all year and no matter that she was overweight, you don't get to #2 in that sort of field for nothing. Hmph! Anyone who tries to belittle Mademoiselle Durr had better watch out!
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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old Aug 19th, 2004, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
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BCP ... it's funny how there are many tennis fans and journos who are not particularly fond of Madge. I can attribute it to a number of factors:

5- Most likely an element of jealousy amongst her many of her peers for her extraordinary record. I have no doubt about this aspect.

6- Lack of positive press. Most of the press on Margaret these days focusses on her opinions on homosexuality rather than her tennis exploits. Very rarely will you ever see an accurate article on her career. Most journos have innacurate and incomplete data to go by eg. they think Navratilova has won the most tournaments ever. There is no real accessible data (except for these great threads) that documents Court's deeds. Most journos are badly misinformed and players from the pre-Open era are largely disadvantaged.

7- Out of sight. Margaret has basically left the sport behind in her search for God. Out of sight, out of mind. Many of the other greats continue their involvement in the sport and stay firmly implanted in the minds of older and new fans.
Coupled with these three is that BJ King of course stayed very much in the limelight and it is her version of events that was plugged and bought. The WTA, as you say, peddle their stats as if tennis didn't exist before the WTA/Slims and this tends to put all pre-slims players in the shade to some extent, not just Madge.

I did notice in that Flink interview that it was said that Durr never beat Court but she had one win in Trinidad '65 (63 97) in the semis - another example of how pre-slims data is not widely known.

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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old Aug 19th, 2004, 01:35 PM
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Re: Why Court isn't more highly considered...
Here in the US, the general public seems to think that women's tennis began with BJK vs. Bobby Riggs, the advent of the VS tour and the coming of sweet little Chrissie. Margaret Court is off the radar screen. And because King's voice has been so highly regarded, Court's achievements are not recognized. The antithesis of this is Rod Laver. Even though Connors, Borg and Ashe provided the US tennis boom excitement of the 70's, the men have always given credit to Laver as possibly the best of all time. Therefore, he's always been in the spotlight.

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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old Aug 19th, 2004, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tennisvideos
BCP ... it's funny how there are many tennis fans and journos who are not particularly fond of Madge. I can attribute it to a number of factors:

1- She was very conservative in her presentation. When many of the gals during the 60s looked glamorous in their stunning Teddy Tinling creations, Madge opted for rather the conservative Fred Perry line. I don't think this won her too many admirers. She looked positively dowdy compared to most of her rivals.

2- She wasn't as feminine looking as many of the other stars of the era eg. Bueno, Goolagong, Wade, Evert, Turner, Reynolds and so on.

3- She played like a man. Had the most powerful serve on tour, huge reach, attacking game. Not as attractive in her shotmaking as Goolagong, Evert, Buneo etc. Her shots were more like thunderbolts than arrows.

4- She was pretty much dominant during most of her career. Naturally many opted to cheer for the underdogs.

5- Most likely an element of jealousy amongst her many of her peers for her extraordinary record. I have no doubt about this aspect.

6- Lack of positive press. Most of the press on Margaret these days focusses on her opinions on homosexuality rather than her tennis exploits. Very rarely will you ever see an accurate article on her career. Most journos have innacurate and incomplete data to go by eg. they think Navratilova has won the most tournaments ever. There is no real accessible data (except for these great threads) that documents Court's deeds. Most journos are badly misinformed and players from the pre-Open era are largely disadvantaged.

7- Out of sight. Margaret has basically left the sport behind in her search for God. Out of sight, out of mind. Many of the other greats continue their involvement in the sport and stay firmly implanted in the minds of older and new fans.

Anyway, just some of my thoughts about why Madge isn't as popular as many other heroines from our sport. You all know how much I admire the tennis player that was Margaret Court. I have been lucky to have seen many of her matches (on tape) and met the woman.

But this thread is really about Chris Evert, and Christine Maree is another of my all time favourite tennis idols so happy to hand the thread back to this living legend. Now if I could just get hold of one of Evert's Teddy Tinling outfits to go with the collection.
I'm not too fond of her either, but she certainly deserves her dues as a tennis player, and I think that she was unfairly treated.

A couple of interesting things about the interview for me were the thoughts on that USO semi just before Martina's defection. How odd to have to go and play a big occassion match knowing this! Has anyone seen this match?

Also interested in Steve's thoughts on the Tracy rivalry, and how Tracy would have fared had she not been injured.

I agree with the comments on Chris's Wimbeldon record. I would have loved to have seen her win 2 more in her career. 5 times Wimbeldon champion is better than 3 times champion and 7 times runner-up............
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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old Aug 19th, 2004, 03:16 PM
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Well, I guess I'm one of those who came to Chris late. Even though I've followed tennis intensely since 1982, I never fully appreciated her. I guess I looked at her baseline game and credited her many wins to something akin to a default in the sense that I thought there were players better than she was.

But my attitude was a reflection of a 10 yr old who had his heart set on other players and I just tried to make it come out right. I had changed somewhat by the 1985 French final and was genuinely happy for her when she won that one. But it's still taken me several years to work out all the old grudges that I've senselessly held against her.

I think it's clear for anyone who knows anything about tennis to see that Chris' game was enormously hard to play. The focus, concentration, the ability to hang in there until you find that one weakness to exploit and then do so, the tenacity, and her outright hatred of losing. She had no glaring weaknesses and was as solid as any pro player has ever been.

I just don't know why it took me so long to figure out the fact that soooo many Chrissie clones came and went without even a hint of the orginal's success is proof positive that Chris is one of a kind. She can't be duplicated and I'm not as sure anymore that she can be surpassed by anyone.

So after all theses years, I can now say it, "I'm a Chris Evert fan too."
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