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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 29th, 2018, 09:28 AM Thread Starter
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Discussions about the rules of BSG

I was just thinking today: the persons who don't vote at all and still get votes for the songs they submitted, are nonetheless preventing other songs to get points, and it's not fair.

Beware that before I'm going further in my ramblings in this thread, that it just aims to discuss and nothing else. I don't mean to change anything because I don't plan to be a regular player (to say the least). Consider it as WHAT IF.

So, WHAT IF:

We give our usual ratings the way we use to do it (10 songs from 12 to 1), but under the list we also list the remaining songs (to which we don't give notes) simply by order of preference.

When all the votes are sent and Adey is about to publish the results (in SF and later F), all the persons who didn't vote simply have their submission deleted. And the ratings given by the voters just switch to the song that was rated just below, and so on (depending on the numbe rof songs deleted). Which means of course that the songs listed under the main one in their PM to Adey, will enter their main list with the ratings corresponding to the rank in the list.

It appears logic to me. And more fair regarding the principle of the game.

I didn't give it a deep thought so feel free to point out possible flaws. For Adey, it doesn't look complicated to do for me. You just delete all the submissions of voters who didn't vote, and switch to the remaining ranked and listed songs that just automatically climb step by step.

Am I clear?

Who cares of hypertrophic weapons when the player on the court moves like music?
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 29th, 2018, 10:14 AM
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Re: Discussions about the rules of BSG

Heavy stuff

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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 30th, 2018, 04:30 PM
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Re: Discussions about the rules of BSG

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Originally Posted by Hugues Daniel View Post
I was just thinking today: the persons who don't vote at all and still get votes for the songs they submitted, are nonetheless preventing other songs to get points, and it's not fair.

Beware that before I'm going further in my ramblings in this thread, that it just aims to discuss and nothing else. I don't mean to change anything because I don't plan to be a regular player (to say the least). Consider it as WHAT IF.

So, WHAT IF:

We give our usual ratings the way we use to do it (10 songs from 12 to 1), but under the list we also list the remaining songs (to which we don't give notes) simply by order of preference.

When all the votes are sent and Adey is about to publish the results (in SF and later F), all the persons who didn't vote simply have their submission deleted. And the ratings given by the voters just switch to the song that was rated just below, and so on (depending on the numbe rof songs deleted). Which means of course that the songs listed under the main one in their PM to Adey, will enter their main list with the ratings corresponding to the rank in the list.

It appears logic to me. And more fair regarding the principle of the game.

I didn't give it a deep thought so feel free to point out possible flaws. For Adey, it doesn't look complicated to do for me. You just delete all the submissions of voters who didn't vote, and switch to the remaining ranked and listed songs that just automatically climb step by step.

Am I clear?
Well, that's harsh. I do agree with one part, penalizing the senders.

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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 30th, 2018, 05:22 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Discussions about the rules of BSG

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Well, that's harsh. I do agree with one part, penalizing the senders.
Senders are penalized already (12 pts deduction).

I don't think my way is harsh. If you forget to vote or cannot vote for any reason, it's natural to not have your entry in the game (because participation works both ways and plays a big part).

Who cares of hypertrophic weapons when the player on the court moves like music?

Last edited by Hugues Daniel; Nov 30th, 2018 at 09:16 PM. Reason: edited for wrong reasoning.
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 30th, 2018, 05:46 PM
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Re: Discussions about the rules of BSG

In past it happened that non senders' songs qualified past some senders' ones, also they forgot to send in the F... then your vote looks meaningless at all. You have to send 12+10+8+7+6+5+4+3+2+1 = 58 points. And every your vote can make a difference in voting. I am starting to like your idea, Hugues. Simply, just remove the song of non sender. (lack of interest, not having a free time - excuses...)

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MTF: Game 37 - Michel Banabila "Fragments of Memory, Game 57 - Jean-Jacques Perrey "E.V.A.", Game 59 - Heilung "Krigsgaldr"
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 2018, 08:27 AM
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Re: Discussions about the rules of BSG

Obviously a disastrous idea, not even worth discussing.
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 2018, 03:19 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Discussions about the rules of BSG

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Obviously a disastrous idea, not even worth discussing.
If the aim's to keep as much players as possible including the careless ones, you're right.

If the aim's to make the game as fair as possible, you're wrong.

Who cares of hypertrophic weapons when the player on the court moves like music?
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 2018, 06:08 PM
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Re: Discussions about the rules of BSG

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If the aim's to keep as much players as possible including the careless ones, you're right.

If the aim's to make the game as fair as possible, you're wrong.
No, this game is about songs, not about achieving 100% justice to players. I can't believe you of all people don't understand this.
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 2018, 06:33 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Discussions about the rules of BSG

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No, this game is about songs, not about achieving 100% justice to players. I can't believe you of all people don't understand this.
Yes, it's about being fair to the songs we rate.

Otherwise why rating songs in the first place.

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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old Dec 14th, 2018, 05:32 AM
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Re: Discussions about the rules of BSG

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Yes, it's about being fair to the songs we rate.

Otherwise why rating songs in the first place.
We are fair to the songs we rate. It's not the song's fault its sender forgot to send his votes.
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old Dec 14th, 2018, 07:45 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Discussions about the rules of BSG

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Originally Posted by Silent Bird View Post
We are fair to the songs we rate. It's not the song's fault its sender forgot to send his votes.
We're obviously not fair to the songs we rate when all songs don't stand equal chances to be rated. A player who doesn't vote deprives other songs of 58 pts. So you imagine when several players don't vote... that's hundreds of points flying away like ashes. A mess.

A poor 12 pts deduction to the non-voter's song is nothing in comparison.

I don't see a better solution than keeping the non-voter's song from being rated.

What if the boycotted song would still get a chance to be re-entered.

Who cares of hypertrophic weapons when the player on the court moves like music?
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old Dec 14th, 2018, 07:54 AM
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Re: Discussions about the rules of BSG

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Originally Posted by Hugues Daniel View Post
We're obviously not fair to the songs we rate when all songs don't stand equal chances to be rated. A player who doesn't vote deprives other songs of 58 pts. So you imagine when several players don't vote... that's hundreds of points flying away like ashes. A mess.

A poor 12 pts deduction to the non-voter's song is nothing in comparison.

I don't see a better solution than keeping the non-voter's song from being rated.

What if the boycotted song would still get a chance to be re-entered.
I would be a lot harsher, always thought of 58 points deduction to its sender.
Then the justice would prevail in any case.

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MTF: Game 37 - Michel Banabila "Fragments of Memory, Game 57 - Jean-Jacques Perrey "E.V.A.", Game 59 - Heilung "Krigsgaldr"
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old Dec 14th, 2018, 08:27 AM
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Re: Discussions about the rules of BSG

I don't have a problem with people who miss a vote occasionally. Unavoidable things happen that might prevent them from voting or participating during that week. Losing 12 points is fine. I don't agree with completely removing a song for that purpose alone. Even then, I don't have a problem if someone doesn't vote but actually participated in the thread.

But I do believe Adey should be harsher on players who make it abundantly clear they have no interest in playing or voting but continually send songs week in, week out. Losing points obviously means nothing. Maybe it's a bit too harsh but players like dogwonder should not be allowed to enter if they have a running record of not voting or a lack of interest in participating at all.

For example: dogwonder24
Game 191; didn't vote SF, F
Game 192; didn't vote SF, F (at this stage, he should have been given the previous sanction of sitting out one game - it didn't happen)
Game 193; voted SF, didn't vote F
Game 194; didn't vote SF, voted F (this should have been the second time he sits out a game)
Game 195; voted both weeks
Game 196; voted SF, didn't vote F
Game 197; didn't vote SF, F (this is the third time he should've sat out a game)
Game 198; voted SF, didn't vote F
Game 199; didn't vote SF, voted F
Game 200; didn't vote SF, F
Game 201; DID NOT PLAY (arguably one of his game bans could be used here)
Game 202; didn't vote SF, F

This is what I have a problem with. In the 11 games he 'participated in', a total of 15 strikes should have been recorded resulting in a 5 game lockout period. His entries should not have been accepted if the strike rule was followed to begin with.
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old Dec 14th, 2018, 03:10 PM
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Re: Discussions about the rules of BSG

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Originally Posted by Hugues Daniel View Post
We're obviously not fair to the songs we rate when all songs don't stand equal chances to be rated. A player who doesn't vote deprives other songs of 58 pts. So you imagine when several players don't vote... that's hundreds of points flying away like ashes. A mess.

A poor 12 pts deduction to the non-voter's song is nothing in comparison.

I don't see a better solution than keeping the non-voter's song from being rated.

What if the boycotted song would still get a chance to be re-entered.
What about the other 6 billion of people on the planet who didn't vote?

Why do I even engage with TWAT winners.

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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old Dec 14th, 2018, 03:13 PM
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Re: Discussions about the rules of BSG

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Originally Posted by Adam View Post
I don't have a problem with people who miss a vote occasionally. Unavoidable things happen that might prevent them from voting or participating during that week. Losing 12 points is fine. I don't agree with completely removing a song for that purpose alone. Even then, I don't have a problem if someone doesn't vote but actually participated in the thread.

But I do believe Adey should be harsher on players who make it abundantly clear they have no interest in playing or voting but continually send songs week in, week out. Losing points obviously means nothing. Maybe it's a bit too harsh but players like dogwonder should not be allowed to enter if they have a running record of not voting or a lack of interest in participating at all.

For example: dogwonder24
Game 191; didn't vote SF, F
Game 192; didn't vote SF, F (at this stage, he should have been given the previous sanction of sitting out one game - it didn't happen)
Game 193; voted SF, didn't vote F
Game 194; didn't vote SF, voted F (this should have been the second time he sits out a game)
Game 195; voted both weeks
Game 196; voted SF, didn't vote F
Game 197; didn't vote SF, F (this is the third time he should've sat out a game)
Game 198; voted SF, didn't vote F
Game 199; didn't vote SF, voted F
Game 200; didn't vote SF, F
Game 201; DID NOT PLAY (arguably one of his game bans could be used here)
Game 202; didn't vote SF, F

This is what I have a problem with. In the 11 games he 'participated in', a total of 15 strikes should have been recorded resulting in a 5 game lockout period. His entries should not have been accepted if the strike rule was followed to begin with.
We scrapped the 3-strike rule because the participation decreased drastically. (I think this rule was introduced in the period where games reached 40+ or even 50+ participants.)

In any case, I don't think we should be engaging with "suggestions" from people like Hugues who don't even play regularly. Let's have some rational persepctive.

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I want to dirty talk then our crews brawl then cuddle (while listening Paranoid London)
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