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post #76 of 88 (permalink) Old Apr 15th, 2019, 10:31 AM
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Re: 1984 results

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Originally Posted by angliru View Post
1R: Jenny Klitch d Gigi Fernandez [LL] 3-6 6-4 6-0
ITF.com = Anna | the WTA-PDF "A" | WTA.com = Gigi

sources or arguments for Gigi?


both played the week before in Pittsburgh

Last edited by Peter2003; Apr 15th, 2019 at 11:02 AM.
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post #77 of 88 (permalink) Old Apr 15th, 2019, 01:48 PM
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Re: 1984 results

I have a source (attached), so I thought this was just the usual surname mix-up. And WTA.com confirmed it. But I had not checked the other sources you mention so now I'm not so sure anymore. I'd say keep AM Fernandez for now.

Source is European Stars and Stripes (Newspaper) - February 1, 1984.
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post #78 of 88 (permalink) Old Apr 15th, 2019, 02:21 PM
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Re: 1984 results

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Originally Posted by angliru View Post
I have a source (attached), so I thought this was just the usual surname mix-up. And WTA.com confirmed it. But I had not checked the other sources you mention so now I'm not so sure anymore. I'd say keep AM Fernandez for now.

Source is European Stars and Stripes (Newspaper) - February 1, 1984.
This newspaper article is a good argument ...
Nice find.
Would Gigi remember this match if we ask her?
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post #79 of 88 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 2019, 02:47 AM
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Re: 1984 results

Thanks for catching the Indy error gentlemen. It is Gigi for certes.

also see: https://www.itftennis.com/procircuit...tid=1020000648


I fear the ITF has confused Anna-Maria and Gigi several times in 1984. For example. the ITF has Anna-Maria at the Ginny of Utah (Salt Lake City) in September of 1984.


This is clearly wrong, as an internal Slims doucement shows it was Gigi: https://www.industrydocuments.ucsf.e...s/#id=kkgk0106


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Last edited by Rollo; Apr 16th, 2019 at 11:16 PM.
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post #80 of 88 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 2019, 03:44 AM
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Re: 1984 results

Note to self to edit/correct/add in all info from post #73 through #75.


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post #81 of 88 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 2019, 12:18 PM
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Re: 1984 results

The fact that there's no seeded player in Fernandez' section and that there's no player seeded 7 in the MD also suggests that a player withdrew and gave place to a lucky loser. I'm aware that the info about the seeds is often wrong or incomplete but in this case I consider it pretty reliable as it's confirmed by several sources and is in order with the actual rankings.

The seeds and their rankings (rankings of 23 January according to my latest findings - not yet updated in my thread). Here are also the highest ranked not seeded players:
(1) Yvonne Vermaak, 41
(2) Marcella Mesker, 50
(3) Ginny Purdy, 53
(4) Joanne Russell-Longdon, 55
(5) Leigh Thompson, [57, 59 or 60]
(6) Patricia Hy-Boulais, 61
(7) ?, [62-66]
(8) Catrin Jexell, [64-67]
Elizabeth Sayers, 68
Heather Ludloff, 71
Catherine Suire, 73
Etsuko Inoue, 76
(Mould, Harrington, Vanier, Mundel are possibly ranked in that region too, ie. high 60's to high 70's).

Surely there must have been someone ranked 62-66ish in the draw at some point. It could not have been AM Fernandez as she was ranked outside of top 100 both on the 9th of January and on the 6th of February (#102).
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post #82 of 88 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 2019, 01:39 PM
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Re: 1984 results

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Originally Posted by angliru View Post
The fact that there's no seeded player in Fernandez' section and that there's no player seeded 7 in the MD also suggests that a player withdrew and gave place to a lucky loser. I'm aware that the info about the seeds is often wrong or incomplete but in this case I consider it pretty reliable as it's confirmed by several sources and is in order with the actual rankings.

The seeds and their rankings (rankings of 23 January according to my latest findings - not yet updated in my thread). Here are also the highest ranked not seeded players:
(1) Yvonne Vermaak, 41
(2) Marcella Mesker, 50
(3) Ginny Purdy, 53
(4) Joanne Russell-Longdon, 55
(5) Leigh Thompson, [57, 59 or 60]
(6) Patricia Hy-Boulais, 61
(7) ?, [62-66]
(8) Catrin Jexell, [64-67]
Elizabeth Sayers, 68
Heather Ludloff, 71
Catherine Suire, 73
Etsuko Inoue, 76
(Mould, Harrington, Vanier, Mundel are possibly ranked in that region too, ie. high 60's to high 70's).

Surely there must have been someone ranked 62-66ish in the draw at some point. It could not have been AM Fernandez as she was ranked outside of top 100 both on the 9th of January and on the 6th of February (#102).
another good argument for Gigi
I'm convinced
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post #83 of 88 (permalink) Old Apr 26th, 2019, 02:45 PM
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Re: 1984 results

Quote:
Week of August 6-12

Aug 6-12 US Claycourt Championships, Indianapolis

Prize money= $200,000

Qualifying

Q1: Kate Gompert d Rene Metz 6-3 6-1
Q1: Ann Henricksson d Felicia Raschiatore 7-6 6-2
Q1: Susan Mascarin d Catrin Jexell [2/Q] 6-2 6-3
Q1: Kim Steinmetz d Nathalie Herreman 6-2 6-3
Q1: Gretchen Rush [3/Q] d Anna Maria Fernandez 6-2 6-4
Q1: Tine Scheuer-Larsson d Micki Schillig 6-3 6-3
Q1: Marcela Skuherska d Sophie Amiach [4/Q] 6-4 6-4
Q1: Kathleen Cummings d Frederica Bonsignori 6-4 6-4

Q1: Grace Kim [5/Q] d Jennifer Mundel 6-3 6-3
Q1: Eileen Tell d Heather Ludloff 7-5 6-0
Q1: Betsy Nagelsen [6/Q] d Lori McNeil 6-4 4-6 6-2
Q1: Corinne Vanier d Emiko Okagawa 6-3 6-4
Q1: Lea Antonopolis [7/Q] d Lele Forood 6-3 6-0
Q1: Barbara Gerken d Amy Holton 7-5 6-2
Q1: Katerina Skronska d Kate Latham [8/Q] 7-5 3-6 6-4
Q1: Petra Delhees-Jauch d Masako Yanagi 6-2 6-3

Q2: Gompert d Henricksson 6-2 3-6 6-2
Q2: Mascarin d Steinmetz 6-1 6-1
Q2: Scheuer-Larsson d Rush [3/Q] 6-3 6-3
Q2: Cummings d Skuherska 6-1 6-3
Q2: Kim [5/Q] d Tell 6-0 6-2
Q2: Nagelsen [6/Q] d Vanier 3-6 6-0 6-2
Q2: Gerken d Antonoolis [7/Q] 7-5 3-6 7-6
Q2: Skronska d Delhees-Jauch 6-1 6-4
Quote:
Week of August 13-19

Aug 13-19 United Jersey, Mahwah

prize money= $150,000

Qualifying

Q1: Kate Gompert d Rene Mentz 6-3 6-1
Q1: Ann Henricksson d Felicia Raschiatore 7-6 6-2
Q1: Kim Steinmetz d Nathalie Herreman 6-2 6-3
Q1: Susan Mascarin d Catrin Jexell 6-2 6-3
Q1: Gretchen Rush [3/Q] d Anna Maria Fernandez 6-2 6-4
Q1: Tine Scheuer d Micki Schillig 6-3 6-3
Q1: Marcela Skuherska d Sophie Amiach [4/Q] 6-4 6-4
Q1: Kathleen Cummings d Frederica Bonsignori 6-4 6-4

Q1: Grace Kim [5/Q] d Jennifer Mundel 6-3 6-3
Q1: Eileen Tell d Heather Ludloff 7-5 6-0
Q1: Bety Nagelsen [6/Q] d Lori McNeil 6-4 4-6 6-2
Q1: Corinne Vanier d Emiko Sakaguchi 6-3 6-4
Q1: Lea Antonopolis [7/Q] d Lele Forood 6-3 6-0
Q1: Barbara Gerken d Amy Holton 7-5 6-2
Q1: Katerina Skronska d Kate Latham [8/Q] 7-5 3-6 6-4
Q1: Petra Delhees-Jauch d Masako Yanagi 6-2 6-3

Q2: Gompert d Henricksson 6-2 3-6 6-2
Q2: Skronska d Delhees-Jauch 6-1 6-4
Q2: Scheuer d Rush [3/Q] 6-3 6-3
Q2: Cummings d Skuherska 6-1 6-3
Q2: Kim [5/Q] d Tell 6-0 6-2
Q2: Nagelsen [6/Q] d Vanier 3-6 6-0 6-2
Q2: Gerken d Antonopolis [7/Q] 7-5 4-6 7-6
Q2: Steinmetz d Mascarin 6-1 6-1
The two Q-draws are the same apart from order, a missing seed info at Mahwah (Jexell [2]), the Sakaguchi/Okagawa issue that Peter2003 has menitoned before and some minor stuff.

The draw is the Aug 13-19 United Jersey, Mahwah draw. I don't know if anyone has the correct Indianapolis Q-draw somewhere. Otherwise I will rebuild as much as I can based on WTA.com's results. This also means that most of the info about qualifiers and lucky losers in the Indianapolis main draw is wrong (I guess this answers one of Peter2003's questions in post #67). Notice that ITF has the same errors about qualifiers in their Indianapolis draw!

The Indianapolis qualifiers were in fact: Debbie Spence of Cerritos, Calif.; Donna Rubin of Rye, N.Y.; Beverly Bowes of Lubbock, Texas; Kris Kinney of New Canaan, Conn.; Ronnie Reis of . Miami; Anna Ivan of Palo Alto, Calif.; Karen Stampfli of Switzerland and Karen Smith of Australia (source).
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post #84 of 88 (permalink) Old Apr 26th, 2019, 08:56 PM
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Re: 1984 results

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Originally Posted by angliru View Post
The two Q-draws are the same apart from order, a missing seed info at Mahwah (Jexell [2]), the Sakaguchi/Okagawa issue that Peter2003 has menitoned before and some minor stuff.

The draw is the Aug 13-19 United Jersey, Mahwah draw. I don't know if anyone has the correct Indianapolis Q-draw somewhere. Otherwise I will rebuild as much as I can based on WTA.com's results. This also means that most of the info about qualifiers and lucky losers in the Indianapolis main draw is wrong (I guess this answers one of Peter2003's questions in post #67). Notice that ITF has the same errors about qualifiers in their Indianapolis draw!

The Indianapolis qualifiers were in fact: Debbie Spence of Cerritos, Calif.; Donna Rubin of Rye, N.Y.; Beverly Bowes of Lubbock, Texas; Kris Kinney of New Canaan, Conn.; Ronnie Reis of . Miami; Anna Ivan of Palo Alto, Calif.; Karen Stampfli of Switzerland and Karen Smith of Australia (source).
impressive

why did not I realize that coherence?

Last edited by Peter2003; Apr 26th, 2019 at 09:09 PM.
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post #85 of 88 (permalink) Old Apr 28th, 2019, 06:18 AM
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Re: 1984 results

Thanks - I discovered it by chance and nothing else as I was trying to link rankings to results. Impressive work by you too. And I'm beginning to understand the amount work needed to maintain and update these threads (not to speak of the massive work put into it by the original creators!).
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post #86 of 88 (permalink) Old Apr 28th, 2019, 06:20 AM
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Re: 1984 results

Week of August 6-12

Aug 6-12 US Claycourt Championships, Indianapolis

Prize money= $200,000

Qualifying

Q1: Debbie Spence [1] - bye
Q1: Annette Gulley d Jane Forman 6-1 1-6 7-5
Q1: Vicki Beggs d Shelby Torrance 6-1 6-0
Q1: Kate Brasher [11] - bye
Q1: Molly Van Nostrand [2] - bye
Q1: Ronni Reis d ??
Q1: Sally Reeves d Glynis Coles-Bond 6-2 2-6 7-5
Q1: Germaine Ohaco d Jackie Joseph 7-5 4-6 7-5

Q1: Beverly Bowes-Hackney [3] - bye
Q1: Karen Huebner d Julie Richardson 5-7 6-4 6-0
Q1: Helene Pelletier d Nerida Gregory 6-2 6-2
Q1: Brenda Perry d Hana Strachonova 6-0 2-0 ret
Q1: Shelly Walpole [4] - bye
Q1: Maeve Quinlan d Luciana Corsato-Owsianka 5-7 6-4 6-4
Q1: Anna Ivan d Jennifer Prah 7-5 6-2
Q1: Susan Rimes d Eva Krapl 7-6(7) 7-5

Q1: Pam Whytcross [5] - bye
Q1: Heather Crowe - bye
Q1: Penny Mager [12] - bye
Q1: Kristin Kinney d Ann Hulbert 6-1 6-4
Q1: Eileen Tell - bye
Q1: Isabelle Vernhes [6] - bye
Q1: Donna Rubin d ??
Q1: Jennifer Goodling d Betsy Heidenberger 6-3 6-3

Q1: Yvona Brzakova [7] - bye
Q1: Elizabeth Jones d Jan Blackstad 6-4 6-3
Q1: Karin Stampfli [10] - bye
Q1: Cecilia Fernandez-Parker - bye
Q1: Laura Bernstein [8] - bye
Q1: Karen Smith d ??
Q1: Kumiko Okamoto [9] - bye
Q1: Michaela Washington d Karen Dewis 6-1 6-2

Q2: Debbie Spence [1] d Annette Gulley 6-2 6-3
Q2: Vicki Beggs d Kate Brasher [11] 6-4 6-0
Q2: Ronni Reis d Molly Van Nostrand [2] 6-3 6-2
Q2: Sally Reeves d Germaine Ohaco 5-7 6-3 7-5
Q2: Beverly Bowes-Hackney [3] d Karen Huebner 6-3 6-2
Q2: Helene Pelletier d Brenda Perry 6-2 6-1
Q2: Maeve Quinlan d Shelly Walpole [4] 6-3 6-7(3) 6-4
Q2: Anna Ivan d Susan Rimes 7-6(4) 6-2

Q2: Pam Whytcross [5] d Heather Crowe 6-4 7-5
Q2: Kristin Kinney d Penny Mager [12] 6-2 6-1
Q2: Eileen Tell d Isabelle Vernhes [6] 6-4 6-3
Q2: Donna Rubin d Jennifer Goodling 7-5 6-3
Q2: Yvona Brzakova [7] d Elizabeth Jones 4-6 6-3 6-4
Q2: Karin Stampfli [10] d Cecilia Fernandez-Parker 7-6(1) 6-1
Q2: Karen Smith d Laura Bernstein [8] 6-3 6-7(3) 6-4
Q2: Michaela Washington d Kumiko Okamoto [9] 6-2 6-0

Q3: Debbie Spence [1] d Vicki Beggs 7-6 6-1
Q3: Ronni Reis d Sally Reeves 7-5 6-0
Q3: Beverly Bowes-Hackney [3] d Helene Pelletier 6-1 6-3
Q3: Anna Ivan d Maeve Quinlan 7-5 6-3
Q3: Kristin Kinney d Pam Whytcross [5] 6-0 1-6 6-3
Q3: Donna Rubin d Eileen Tell 6-1 6-3
Q3: Karin Stampfli [10] d Yvona Brzakova [7] 6-2 6-1
Q3: Karen Smith d Michaela Washington 2-6 6-3 6-4

All results and seeds according to wta.com. I've kept the current WTA names to make it easier if anyone wants to verify or double-check the results. But the names can be changed back to whatever is consistent with this 1984 thread.

QR2 and QR3 are complete while we miss three results in the first round. I've assumed that all seeds had byes in the first round, which is a pretty safe assumtion, but it's not confirmed in all cases. Penny Mager [12], Kate Brasher [11], and Kumiko Okamoto [9], for instance, are confirmed byes while Debbie Spence [1] is not. I've only written byes for unseeded players when it's confirmed - hence the three missing results in QR1.

Besides the 8 qualifiers, Pam Whytcross got into MD as a lucky loser.

Main draw needs some work too as all qualifiers and four lucky losers are wrong!
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post #87 of 88 (permalink) Old May 3rd, 2019, 06:20 AM
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Re: 1984 results

Quote:
Week of October 22-28

October 23-28 Daihatsu Challenge, Brighton, Great Britain

Venue: Brighton Centre
prize money= $175,000


Q1: Carina Karlsson [5/Q] d Julie Salmon 7-6 6-0
...
Q2: Gomer d Karlsson [5/Q] 6-2 7-5
Quote:
Oct 22-28 Australian Hardcourt Championships, Sydney

Surface: Hard
Status: ITF event, prize money=$10,000

Draw=32

1R: Jenny Byrne [1] d. Anne-Karin Olsson 6-2 6-2
1R: Helen Davis d. Karen Deed 6-3 6-3
1R: Julie Richardson d. Carina Karlsson 6-3 6-2
1R: Helen Olsson [6] d. Joanne Butler 2-6 6-4 6-0
1R: Annika Karlsson [4] d. Rebecca Bryant 6-1 6-0
1R: Dianne Balestrat d. Kirsty Wenzel 6-3 6-1
1R: Helena Dahlstrom d. Kim Staunton 6-3 6-2
1R: Hana Strachonova d. Amanda Tobin [7] 4-0 ret.

1R: Belinda Cordwell [8] d. Karen Smith 6-1 5-7 6-1
1R: Diane Farrell d. Michelle Jaggard-Lai 7-5 7-5
1R: Jackie Masters d. Monica Lundqvist 6-3 6-3
1R: Michele Parun [3] d. Yvonne Stanton 6-1 6-0
1R: Janine Thompson [5] d. Louise Field 6-3 6-3
1R: Anneli Bjork d. Miranda Yates 7-5 6-1
1R: Colleen Carney d. Stina Almgren 6-3 6-7 6-2
1R: Vicki Marler [2] d. Louise Fitzgerald 3-6 7-5 6-2
It's the same player playing in Brighton and Sydney according to WTA. Maybe it's possible in theory (losing in qualies and going to main draw in another tournament the same week). But hardly possible when we consider time difference and travel time. I suspect it's Karolina Karlsson playing the 10K in Sydney. She played another 10K in Australia that October. Besides, Carina Karlsson was ranked #71 in the world at the time. All the seeded players in Sydney were ranked near top 200 at best. Lastly, Carina Karlsson also played in Zürich the week after Brighton.
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post #88 of 88 (permalink) Old May 3rd, 2019, 05:26 PM
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Re: 1984 results

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Originally Posted by angliru View Post
It's the same player playing in Brighton and Sydney according to WTA. Maybe it's possible in theory (losing in qualies and going to main draw in another tournament the same week). But hardly possible when we consider time difference and travel time. I suspect it's Karolina Karlsson playing the 10K in Sydney. She played another 10K in Australia that October. Besides, Carina Karlsson was ranked #71 in the world at the time. All the seeded players in Sydney were ranked near top 200 at best. Lastly, Carina Karlsson also played in Zürich the week after Brighton.
I think you're right with Karolina.
Carina played definitely Filderstadt > Brighton > Zürich, it's not logical to fly to Australia and back to Europe in-between, she wasn't even seeded at the 10K (Annika was).

I will change my database to that.
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