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post #46 of 78 (permalink) Old Jun 16th, 2018, 04:55 PM
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Re: Caster Semenya and the IAAF - a ruling lacking scientific backing

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Originally Posted by TennisFan102;
It sounds to me people on the right who want Caster out of track & field are acting like right wing versions of SJW's. She doesn't fit their worldview of how females are supposed to be "feminine". The same unscientific arguement to try and exclude her from competition is the same one people used in the 80's to try and discredit Martina and other Lesbian females who looked butch as if their athletic accomplishments should not count and they had an "unfair natural advantage" over more feminine looking athletes. Unless it's ever been proven she had outer male part's then her records should stand, and she should be continue to compete and not be punished,even if she is scientific anomoly she is still a female one.

Back in the day, Babe Dickrickson got the same criticism. Hell, even Serena Williams has been accused of that by some bigoted right wing misogynistic jackasses.
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post #47 of 78 (permalink) Old Jun 17th, 2018, 07:45 AM
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Re: Caster Semenya and the IAAF - a ruling lacking scientific backing

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Originally Posted by TennisFan102 View Post
It sounds to me people on the right who want Caster out of track & field are acting like right wing versions of SJW's. She doesn't fit their worldview of how females are supposed to be "feminine". The same unscientific arguement to try and exclude her from competition is the same one people used in the 80's to try and discredit Martina and other Lesbian females who looked butch as if their athletic accomplishments should not count and they had an "unfair natural advantage" over more feminine looking athletes. Unless it's ever been proven she had outer male part's then her records should stand, and she should be continue to compete and not be punished,even if she is scientific anomoly she is still a female one.
Ok, maybe I am narrow minded in my specific area but I still stay behind what I believe in I think the line sometimes are blurried and people like Caster Semenya and those who defend her tread on thin ice. There's a transexual man who few years ago made sex reassignment surgery and now he suddenly discovered his talent in weightlifting to start ... with women and took part in World Championships, do you think it's fine too?

Caster at least always had female gender in her documents, but her case opens precedent that is very easy to abuse in the future that can make it borderline impossible for biological women to excel. But where do we draw the line? I think that our inclusiveness is getting out of hand for a while and starts wronging more people than it does help. People criticise Caster, IAAF etc. not because she does not fit their notion of being feminine (or at least it's not their biggest issue) unlike what apologist want to spread.

At very least I think Caster should compete with men if her testosterone level is not being kept in check. It's admittedly a very sensitive question and maybe I am not sensitive enough here with how I word my opinion but yeah, I am keen on believing that her ''I am woman and I identify as such'' is just a facade here too more than the other way around.

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Another utterly pathetic and laughable reply.

No one is forcing those women from competing against Semenya in international T & F events. No one forced me to compete against athletes were who twice my size and were possessed of twice my strength. But I did it, often won, and have the awards to prove it. As the great Harry S Truman once said, if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. There are no tears in baseball, softball, or in any other sport. You compete and do your best. Making crybaby excuses as you do is for losers.

Just imagine if someone said NFL should not allow players to compete if they were over 165 lbs. Or imagine if the NBA banned players over 5'6". People would be enraged while others would be laughing at the leagues.

Semenya competed with others who voluntarily participated in sport. We have absolutely no evidence that she cheated in any way. Had she cheated then I would disqualify her. Until anyone presents proof that she violated any existing rules, she should be allowed to play.

Your reading comprehension is truly miserable or you just can't accept the truth. I mean c'mon. Caster has no womb, no ovaries, has internal testes. It's absolutely uncomparable with your examples. He lives his life entirely as a man, except when he participates by running in women's races or when Caster is being interviewed.




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post #48 of 78 (permalink) Old Jun 17th, 2018, 09:37 AM
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Re: Caster Semenya and the IAAF - a ruling lacking scientific backing

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Ok, maybe I am narrow minded in my specific area but I still stay behind what I believe in I think the line sometimes are blurried and people like Caster Semenya and those who defend her tread on thin ice. There's a transexual man who few years ago made sex reassignment surgery and now he suddenly discovered his talent in weightlifting to start ... with women and took part in World Championships, do you think it's fine too?

Caster at least always had female gender in her documents, but her case opens precedent that is very easy to abuse in the future that can make it borderline impossible for biological women to excel. But where do we draw the line? I think that our inclusiveness is getting out of hand for a while and starts wronging more people than it does help. People criticise Caster, IAAF etc. not because she does not fit their notion of being feminine (or at least it's not their biggest issue) unlike what apologist want to spread.

At very least I think Caster should compete with men if her testosterone level is not being kept in check. It's admittedly a very sensitive question and maybe I am not sensitive enough here with how I word my opinion but yeah, I am keen on believing that her ''I am woman and I identify as such'' is just a facade here too more than the other way around.




Your reading comprehension is truly miserable or you just can't accept the truth. I mean c'mon. Caster has no womb, no ovaries, has internal testes. It's absolutely uncomparable with your examples. He lives his life entirely as a man, except when he participates by running in women's races or when Caster is being interviewed.



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post #49 of 78 (permalink) Old Jun 17th, 2018, 12:12 PM
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Re: Caster Semenya and the IAAF - a ruling lacking scientific backing

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I know a lot of people in youtube comments say things about Wambui and Niyonsaba, but it just seems like hearsay to me
Youtube comments is like the last place I rely on when it comes to discovering facts

Wambui & Niyonsaba are hearsay? Did you actually even watch the Rio 800m final? Fellow competitors like Sharp or Jozwik called the testosterone bullshit long before that. Semenya rose to prominence in 2009 but was then issued a testosterone therapy and her results got more creditable. Still, the likes of Colin Jackson claimed she threw some races not to look so dominant and suspicious. I can only guess whether you know who Colin Jackson is.

Moreover, I firmly believe she can break Kratochvilova's WR if only she wanted but she doesn't since that would have been the ultimate guilty verdict IMO.
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post #50 of 78 (permalink) Old Jun 17th, 2018, 01:12 PM
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Re: Caster Semenya and the IAAF - a ruling lacking scientific backing

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Ok, maybe I am narrow minded in my specific area ...

Your reading comprehension is truly miserable or you just can't accept the truth. I mean c'mon. Caster has no womb, no ovaries, has internal testes. It's absolutely uncomparable with your examples. He lives his life entirely as a man, except when he participates by running in women's races or when Caster is being interviewed.

Well, at least you admit to your narrow mindedness. Meantime, the Olympic spirit lives on so that she will compete and win.

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post #51 of 78 (permalink) Old Jun 18th, 2018, 06:36 AM
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Re: Caster Semenya and the IAAF - a ruling lacking scientific backing

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Well, at least you admit to your narrow mindedness. Meantime, the Olympic spirit lives on so that she will compete and win.
Last time they imposed the medical handcuffs on Sementa, her winning quota dropped so don't bet your house on her yet

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post #52 of 78 (permalink) Old Jun 18th, 2018, 07:18 AM
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Re: Caster Semenya and the IAAF - a ruling lacking scientific backing

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Back in the day, Babe Dickrickson got the same criticism. Hell, even Serena Williams has been accused of that by some bigoted right wing misogynistic jackasses.
It was Babe Didrikson.

What an extraordinary Freudian slip! How unbelievably ironic.
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post #53 of 78 (permalink) Old Jun 18th, 2018, 08:56 AM
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Re: Caster Semenya and the IAAF - a ruling lacking scientific backing

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Youtube comments is like the last place I rely on when it comes to discovering facts

Wambui & Niyonsaba are hearsay? Did you actually even watch the Rio 800m final? Fellow competitors like Sharp or Jozwik called the testosterone bullshit long before that. Semenya rose to prominence in 2009 but was then issued a testosterone therapy and her results got more creditable. Still, the likes of Colin Jackson claimed she threw some races not to look so dominant and suspicious. I can only guess whether you know who Colin Jackson is.

Moreover, I firmly believe she can break Kratochvilova's WR if only she wanted but she doesn't since that would have been the ultimate guilty verdict IMO.
The time that is set for he women 800m WR is a disgrace for the world of athletics, as is Koch's 400m. Koch is the only one that came close to the ridiculous 800m mark. Lets not pretend in 2018 that the East German and the Czechoslovakian lady were clean and erase these old records from the books as no clean female athlete could ever come close to these times...hell even a woman that is accused of being a man cannot get match these times, these records are abominations
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post #54 of 78 (permalink) Old Jun 18th, 2018, 01:31 PM
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Re: Caster Semenya and the IAAF - a ruling lacking scientific backing

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The time that is set for he women 800m WR is a disgrace for the world of athletics, as is Koch's 400m. Koch is the only one that came close to the ridiculous 800m mark. Lets not pretend in 2018 that the East German and the Czechoslovakian lady were clean and erase these old records from the books as no clean female athlete could ever come close to these times...hell even a woman that is accused of being a man cannot get match these times, these records are abominations
Let's not pretend this is matter only of woman 400m and 800m athletics & only eastern block issue. Like if Griffith Joyner 100m record is reachable for anybody ...

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post #55 of 78 (permalink) Old Jun 18th, 2018, 01:55 PM
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Re: Caster Semenya and the IAAF - a ruling lacking scientific backing

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It was Babe Didrikson.

What an extraordinary Freudian slip! How unbelievably ironic.


Haha!

Who knows, mebbe even she would have found it funny as well.
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post #56 of 78 (permalink) Old Jun 18th, 2018, 03:08 PM
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Re: Caster Semenya and the IAAF - a ruling lacking scientific backing

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I've read that they are also intersex.
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Youtube comments is like the last place I rely on when it comes to discovering facts

Wambui & Niyonsaba are hearsay? Did you actually even watch the Rio 800m final? Fellow competitors like Sharp or Jozwik called the testosterone bullshit long before that. Semenya rose to prominence in 2009 but was then issued a testosterone therapy and her results got more creditable. Still, the likes of Colin Jackson claimed she threw some races not to look so dominant and suspicious. I can only guess whether you know who Colin Jackson is.

Moreover, I firmly believe she can break Kratochvilova's WR if only she wanted but she doesn't since that would have been the ultimate guilty verdict IMO.
Are they actually intersex though, or is that people just spreading ideas? I mean maybe they actually are, but how would we know just by looking?

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post #57 of 78 (permalink) Old Jun 18th, 2018, 03:16 PM
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Re: Caster Semenya and the IAAF - a ruling lacking scientific backing

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Are they actually intersex though, or is that people just spreading ideas? I mean maybe they actually are, but how would we know just by looking?
Too lazy to dig up the articles but they are out there if you really want to know!
There is also an indian female athlete in the same boat... can't recall her name.
But if you google intersex female athletes, you will find out about her as well.

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post #58 of 78 (permalink) Old Jun 18th, 2018, 03:21 PM
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Re: Caster Semenya and the IAAF - a ruling lacking scientific backing

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Too lazy to dig up the articles but they are out there if you really want to know!
There is also an indian female athlete in the same boat... can't recall her name.
But if you google intersex female athletes, you will find out about her as well.
I had already google'd them and it just looks like people speculating.

Chand is known to have hypoandrogenism, but that does raise another question... is hypoandrogenism alone a case for intersex? Idts but I don't really know about intersex that much.

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post #59 of 78 (permalink) Old Jun 18th, 2018, 11:43 PM
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Re: Caster Semenya and the IAAF - a ruling lacking scientific backing

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Are they actually intersex though, or is that people just spreading ideas? I mean maybe they actually are, but how would we know just by looking?
IAAF did the gender testing for Semenya but never published the results. But the medical handcuffs worked and Semenya tailed off for over two years before the Indian sprinter opened a loophole that Semenya thrives on now.

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The time that is set for he women 800m WR is a disgrace for the world of athletics, as is Koch's 400m. Koch is the only one that came close to the ridiculous 800m mark. Lets not pretend in 2018 that the East German and the Czechoslovakian lady were clean and erase these old records from the books as no clean female athlete could ever come close to these times...hell even a woman that is accused of being a man cannot get match these times, these records are abominations
Because she doesn't want to break it IMO. If she did, that would really open some eyes regarding Semenya's alleged lack of natural advantage. She ain't THAT stupid.

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post #60 of 78 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 2018, 09:29 PM
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Re: Caster Semenya and the IAAF - a ruling lacking scientific backing

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Let's not pretend this is matter only of woman 400m and 800m athletics & only eastern block issue. Like if Griffith Joyner 100m record is reachable for anybody ...
you are right but 800m is Semenya's discipline so it is more relevant. American athletics has proven to be as dirty as the easter European front, even dirtier since American athletes get more protection in every sport.
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