Margaret Court demands that she be honoured at AO 2020 for CYGS - Page 8 - TennisForum.com
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post #106 of 143 (permalink) Old Nov 9th, 2019, 01:07 PM
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Re: Margaret Court demands that she be honoured at AO 2020 for CYGS

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Originally Posted by HatersGoToHell View Post
I will remind you your post:

Australia isn't a homophobic country like Poland. Just imagine the situation in USA when even the GOAT would say a racist thing, it would be a persona non grata during official tennis ceremonies.
Not supporting same-sex marriage is racism? What a load of crap!

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post #107 of 143 (permalink) Old Nov 9th, 2019, 01:28 PM
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I would think a combination of the titles and wins during those titles are the best criteria.

It would keep Navratilova, Serena and Steffi above Margaret, and that's probably fine, since those 3 were far more impressive than Margaret ever was.
Are you sure about that? Court has the most titles in this group and her win percentage is if not the highest, comparable with the others. I'm sure it's higher than Serena. So I believe this Criteria would only reinforce Court goatness.

Face it guys, denying Court's sport merits makes is simply wrong.
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post #108 of 143 (permalink) Old Nov 9th, 2019, 01:28 PM
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Not supporting same-sex marriage is racism? What a load of crap!
You didn’t get their point

They are talking about racism and homophobia...both unacceptable. If someone said something racist in the US no matter how great they wouldn’t be honoured. This is just someone saying something homophobic.
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post #109 of 143 (permalink) Old Nov 9th, 2019, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HatersGoToHell View Post
I will remind you your post:

Australia isn't a homophobic country like Poland. Just imagine the situation in USA when even the GOAT would say a racist thing, it would be a persona non grata during official tennis ceremonies.
Not supporting same-sex marriage is racism? <img src="https://www.tennisforum.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh Out Loud" class="inlineimg" /> What a load of crap! <img src="https://i.imgur.com/m73r2hV.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Embarrassment" class="inlineimg" />
That was a comparison, because racism is bad the same like homophobia and transphobia:

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post #110 of 143 (permalink) Old Nov 9th, 2019, 02:46 PM
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Re: Margaret Court demands that she be honoured at AO 2020 for CYGS

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It is also negated by her actions. She lobbied hard to get people to vote against marriage equality. That by definition means she does not "treat everybody equally" or want them to be. She literally tried to ensure that same-sex couples are not given the same rights. Add to that, conversion "therapy" that she espouses ie. gay people need to be fixed because there is something fundamentally wrong with their orientation.

Bigots come in different forms. Do you live in a cartoon world where the people with extreme views are ranting and raving at a street corner about the end of the world?

I'll hold judgement on the racism thing until Rollo comes up with a quote. She may have shifted her thinking on that but I think we have enough to conclude that she is a raging homophobe.
Personally, I feel that people are entitled to a personal opinion on the matter. Members of the LGBTI community can garner their support for the bill by wearing rainbow, donning flags and attending rallies, then of course posting a "yes" vote. They can speak out on social media etc. By the same token, it should be ok to oppose the bill, and even talk about reasons for this. This particular story where a woman was sacked by her boss for posting "It's ok to say NO" on a facebook post highlights that we can sometimes go to extremes:
https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/progr...-views/8961658

I do not expect Margaret to support the bill or apply favour towards it. Why would she? But I don't see her decision as anything more than a personal choice or preference. What I will say is of course there are various ways one can voice their opinion. Margaret can sometimes be a little too direct and this can come across the wrong way. In her mind, her convictions are strong. This comes from part of her upbringing. Remember that members of parliament were against a bill for gay marriage quality only a few years ago.

I think that these days, "progress" seems to come about quickly and in waves, but we tend to ignore tradition and the impact it plays on how people respond to issues such as these. My father for one is not religious but he holds onto an opinion that he believes marriage should be just as it was, between a man and a woman and finds gay unions strange. I can totally see him getting a lot of backlash if he decided to post something like that on social media. Yet this is an opinion that is shared by many across the nation, not because they necessarily dislike gay people, but that they disagree with some aspects of their lifestyle, especially something as important in society as marriage. To them, that's the normal. I tend to feel the same way regarding say the case of Osaka's grandparents from her mother's side dissenting to the marriage of her parents. These days we find it really awkward that parents could be so narrow-minded to disown their child over marrying a black man, but there's a lot of culture that creates that. Understandably, moving away from the status quo is very tricky and takes time. Something that was socially unacceptable has become the norm and it's going to butt some heads especially at the earliest stages of change.

These days, I anticipate the youth who attend church (Christians/Catholics) will be better informed about these issues and how to deal with it in a more compassionate way even if they disagree about some things. Margaret is definitely experiencing a bit of culture shock and may not know how to deal with it in the way we socially accept and expect not having had this exposure in the past. I don't think that she deliberately applied her status in order to speak about this, my assumption is she was simply approached to say something, interview and just gave her mind. Not excusing that she may have offended some people and acted insensitively, as members of the Westboro Baptist Church did, but campaigning against gay marriage, or disagreeing with it (which is the major point you brought up) is in her right, and basically anybody's right if they vote, and that in and of itself isn't hate to my mind.

Question: is it at all possible to oppose gay marriage, even be vocal about it and not be considered hateful towards gay people, and if so how can that be accomplished?
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post #111 of 143 (permalink) Old Nov 9th, 2019, 03:15 PM
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Re: Margaret Court demands that she be honoured at AO 2020 for CYGS

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[...]



Question: is it at all possible to oppose gay marriage, even be vocal about it and not be considered hateful towards gay people, and if so how can that be accomplished?
Yes, of course it is possible and I've already explained why I think she crosses the line. If you read her quotes that I've posted and think that's okay and she's not homophobic then I guess you and I have different value systems.

For the record, bro and sis-in-law both voted No. I was disappointed but don't hold it against them.
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post #112 of 143 (permalink) Old Nov 9th, 2019, 08:34 PM
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Re: Margaret Court demands that she be honoured at AO 2020 for CYGS

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I say rename the court Evonne Goolagong stadium and let a true lady get the recognition she deserves. Does Margaret Court know that this is 2019?
Get a clue woman.
Margaret Court is Evonne Goolagong's hero.Maybe you hadn't heard.
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post #113 of 143 (permalink) Old Nov 9th, 2019, 08:45 PM
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Re: Margaret Court demands that she be honoured at AO 2020 for CYGS

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Originally Posted by Matmagix View Post
Question: is it at all possible to oppose gay marriage, even be vocal about it and not be considered hateful towards gay people, and if so how can that be accomplished?
Answer: No.

I'm sick of people calling homophobia a "preference" or "opinion". If Margaret Court said she preferred apples to oranges, there would be no outrage over this preference or opinion.

When Margaret Court advocates for stripping away (or not granting) rights to a minority group, that is hate.
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post #114 of 143 (permalink) Old Nov 9th, 2019, 09:27 PM
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She always has been a homophobe but people didnt sham her until she made a direct comment towards casey dellacqua. Shaming her for her choices and all that. She doesnt deserve to be celebrated, having beliefs and being an advocate for it are two different things.
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post #115 of 143 (permalink) Old Nov 9th, 2019, 09:30 PM
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Question: is it at all possible to oppose gay marriage, even be vocal about it and not be considered hateful towards gay people, and if so how can that be accomplished?
Answer: No.

I'm sick of people calling homophobia a "preference" or "opinion". If Margaret Court said she preferred apples to oranges, there would be no outrage over this preference or opinion.

When Margaret Court advocates for stripping away (or not granting) rights to a minority group, that is hate.
It is possible. However, court isnt just against it, she advocates against it. That is a completely different ball game. I understand people who dont agree with same sex marriage but arent necessarily against gays. She can be vocal when asked in interviews but she has taken it too far, even attacking gay tennis players.
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post #116 of 143 (permalink) Old Nov 9th, 2019, 09:39 PM
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Re: Margaret Court demands that she be honoured at AO 2020 for CYGS

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Answer: No.

I'm sick of people calling homophobia a "preference" or "opinion". If Margaret Court said she preferred apples to oranges, there would be no outrage over this preference or opinion.

When Margaret Court advocates for stripping away (or not granting) rights to a minority group, that is hate.
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Question: is it at all possible to oppose gay marriage, even be vocal about it and not be considered hateful towards gay people, and if so how can that be accomplished?
Kinda. I personally believe the state should not marry any couple at all, neither gay nor hetero. I think they should only concede civil unions, which is a more modern concept and gives the same civil rights. Marriage per se has a certain religious association, and I believe the state should be secular. So in a way, I'm against the state doing gay marriages, in the same way I'm against they doing hetero marriages.

So yeah, technically we can answer yes to this question.

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post #117 of 143 (permalink) Old Nov 9th, 2019, 10:17 PM
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Re: Margaret Court demands that she be honoured at AO 2020 for CYGS

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Margaret Court is Evonne Goolagong's hero.Maybe you hadn't heard.
Why wouldn't she be? Besides being the best Australian woman player of all-time back in Evonne's era (as she still is today), Marg mentored and took Evonne under her wing at a time when Aboriginals were probably more subject to discrimination than gays are today. They had only been given the vote a few years earlier.
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post #118 of 143 (permalink) Old Nov 9th, 2019, 10:43 PM
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Re: Margaret Court demands that she be honoured at AO 2020 for CYGS

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Yes, of course it is possible and I've already explained why I think she crosses the line. If you read her quotes that I've posted and think that's okay and she's not homophobic then I guess you and I have different value systems.

For the record, bro and sis-in-law both voted No. I was disappointed but don't hold it against them.
To me, she is as homophobic as the general religious view on this topic, not more not less, i went to a catholic hichschool and the view on this is exactly what she says, typically they will go like: "God loves all creation, women and men but homosexuality is not a good thing" . And judging someone by isolated quotes from who knows where and who knows when is not a good idea, really

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post #119 of 143 (permalink) Old Nov 9th, 2019, 11:11 PM
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Re: Margaret Court demands that she be honoured at AO 2020 for CYGS

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To me, she is as homophobic as the general religious view on this topic, not more not less, i went to a catholic hichschool and the view on this is exactly what she says, typically they will go like: "God loves all creation, women and men but homosexuality is not a good thing" . And judging someone by isolated quotes from who knows where and who knows when is not a good idea, really
We'll have to agree to disagree.

These are not merely isolated quotes - these comments are consistent with her behaviour over time. These are covered extensively by the Australian media as they happen. Also comparing homosexuality to Nazism and supporting/participating in conversion "therapy" is not something that people who against marriage equality necessarily agree with and I would argue that it is not typical general religious view. To suggest that all religious people are as homophobic as Court is frankly quite offensive. There are some churches that genuinely accept homosexuality and where it isn't just a token statement.

I find the "it says so in the bible" an incredibly lazy way to "rationalise" these beliefs. A lot of things are said in the bible that are accepted as archaic - like, women should remain silent, stoning people is A okay and then others that have merit but ignored in this conversation - "love thy neighbour", "let him who is without sin cast the first stone". Hypocrisy.
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post #120 of 143 (permalink) Old Nov 9th, 2019, 11:17 PM
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Re: Margaret Court demands that she be honoured at AO 2020 for CYGS

Everyone is entitled to their personal views, many of which are influenced by nurture. (Hello religion).

But if these views don’t reflect the values of the society they live in, or in Mag’s case actively oppose these values, don’t be expecting a national or even local standing ovation.

Thankfully people like Margaret and her nurtured views, are dying out, albeit slowly.
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