Probably unpopular opinion: Cara Black is greater than Jelena Ostapenko - Page 3 - TennisForum.com
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post #31 of 59 (permalink) Old Jul 11th, 2019, 07:34 PM
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Re: Probably unpopular opinion: Cara Black is greater than Jelena Ostapenko

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Originally Posted by Joana View Post
Winning a Slam vs never even coming close kinda does.

As for greatness, doubles = no one cares = irrelevant. Or otherwise, that Dutch wheelchair player would be the greatest ever.
I agree 100%.
Sammo here has been pushing this narrative that doubles success is equal to singles success because of his fave Hingis coming back to vulture the doubles tour a few years ago. But the reality is that singles is what is used to measure the metric of "greatest of all time" when it comes to tennis. The only reason we have "doubles specialists" at all is because the top singles players rarely play it and the doubles specialists were not good enough to make it in singles.
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post #32 of 59 (permalink) Old Jul 11th, 2019, 07:44 PM
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Re: Probably unpopular opinion: Cara Black is greater than Jelena Ostapenko

Yeah, no.
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post #33 of 59 (permalink) Old Jul 11th, 2019, 08:14 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Probably unpopular opinion: Cara Black is greater than Jelena Ostapenko

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Originally Posted by MoonballPusher View Post
I agree 100%.
Sammo here has been pushing this narrative that doubles success is equal to singles success because of his fave Hingis coming back to vulture the doubles tour a few years ago. But the reality is that singles is what is used to measure the metric of "greatest of all time" when it comes to tennis. he only reason we have "doubles specialists" at all is because the top singles players rarely play it and the doubles specialists were not good enough to make it in singles.
Players like Mima Jausovec, Virginia Ruzici, Kerry Melville or Ostapenko are literally nothing compared to someone like Gigi Fernández, hence why she's in the Hall of Fame and they aren't. And for every top singles player who could've made it in doubles there are many who are complete hacks at it.

But anyway, spoken like a true casual.

"Sometimes we've wondered if Martina actually knew what she was saying. Maybe it was her age or inexperience or something got lost in the translation. But I don't know. She comes out with something astounding and then just stares at you like, 'What did I say?' But then she'll have that glint in her eye."
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post #34 of 59 (permalink) Old Jul 11th, 2019, 08:17 PM
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Re: Probably unpopular opinion: Cara Black is greater than Jelena Ostapenko

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Originally Posted by Joana View Post
Winning a Slam vs never even coming close kinda does.

As for greatness, doubles = no one cares = irrelevant. Or otherwise, that Dutch wheelchair player would be the greatest ever.
That's a pretty big logical fallacy as that's a completely separate event from women's doubles.

And saying no one cares is a huge generalization as quite a lot of people do care.
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post #35 of 59 (permalink) Old Jul 11th, 2019, 08:29 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Probably unpopular opinion: Cara Black is greater than Jelena Ostapenko

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That's a pretty big logical fallacy as that's a completely separate event from women's doubles.

And saying no one cares is a huge generalization as quite a lot of people do care.
True. Also many more people in the world care about soccer than they care about tennis, does that mean Cristiano Ronaldo is a greater sportsman than Roger Federer?

Top players (the ones who would be good at doubles) prioritizing singles over doubles and thus making doubles competition not as tough is the only objective reason why singles should count more regarding career achievements, not each discipline's popularity.

"Sometimes we've wondered if Martina actually knew what she was saying. Maybe it was her age or inexperience or something got lost in the translation. But I don't know. She comes out with something astounding and then just stares at you like, 'What did I say?' But then she'll have that glint in her eye."
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post #36 of 59 (permalink) Old Jul 11th, 2019, 08:32 PM
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Re: Probably unpopular opinion: Cara Black is greater than Jelena Ostapenko

No.
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post #37 of 59 (permalink) Old Jul 11th, 2019, 08:44 PM
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Re: Probably unpopular opinion: Cara Black is greater than Jelena Ostapenko

Esther Vergeer is greater than Martina Hingis.
Across all disciplines, she won 48 Grand Slam titles (nearly twice that of Hingis), 23 YECs, 7 Paralympic gold medals. She ended her career on a 470 match winning streak, something Martina never came close to.
Vergeer won 284 titles across all disciplines over the course of her career. Martina won 114.
The point of this comparison is to show that two random players, one who absolutely dominated her sport from the start of her career to the end, is far more relevant to tennis history and better than the other who was phased out by greater and more powerful/physical players and by also being a cokehead .
Dominating for nearly 20 years > fluking single Slams before the real players of the new Millennium-WTA arrived and then making a "comeback" to vulture an empty doubles tour that had lost all top players to singles in the era of an increasingly physical WTA.

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Come on, let's be real here, we knew going into the quarterfinals that these two would be in the final. So we got there quicker, whatever, it means their both in great form and we'll have one of the best Wimbledon finals in a long time.
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I knew someone would write such a Thread. Total unnecessary IMO. He is still playing mind Games with her, toying with her. Why can't he leave Naomi alone?
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post #38 of 59 (permalink) Old Jul 11th, 2019, 09:53 PM
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Re: Probably unpopular opinion: Cara Black is greater than Jelena Ostapenko

So many haters try to talk Jelena's French Open title bad

Maybe you should watch her GREAT French Open 2017 final again



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post #39 of 59 (permalink) Old Jul 11th, 2019, 09:56 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Probably unpopular opinion: Cara Black is greater than Jelena Ostapenko

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Originally Posted by STRONG-ERA View Post
Esther Vergeer is greater than Martina Hingis.
Across all disciplines, she won 48 Grand Slam titles (nearly twice that of Hingis), 23 YECs, 7 Paralympic gold medals. She ended her career on a 470 match winning streak, something Martina never came close to.
Vergeer won 284 titles across all disciplines over the course of her career. Martina won 114.
The point of this comparison is to show that two random players, one who absolutely dominated her sport from the start of her career to the end, is far more relevant to tennis history and better than the other who was phased out by greater and more powerful/physical players and by also being a cokehead .
Dominating for nearly 20 years > fluking single Slams before the real players of the new Millennium-WTA arrived and then making a "comeback" to vulture an empty doubles tour that had lost all top players to singles in the era of an increasingly physical WTA.

Come at me
Sweetie, being a Mertens fan is pitiable enough. Even I have limits.


"Sometimes we've wondered if Martina actually knew what she was saying. Maybe it was her age or inexperience or something got lost in the translation. But I don't know. She comes out with something astounding and then just stares at you like, 'What did I say?' But then she'll have that glint in her eye."
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post #40 of 59 (permalink) Old Jul 11th, 2019, 10:07 PM
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Re: Probably unpopular opinion: Cara Black is greater than Jelena Ostapenko

What now?
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post #41 of 59 (permalink) Old Jul 11th, 2019, 10:11 PM
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Re: Probably unpopular opinion: Cara Black is greater than Jelena Ostapenko

Jelena played very strong tennis in French Open 2017. And fully deserved this Grand Slam title
She beat many great players. And clay GOAT Halep in the final - a very tough and difficult opponent.

Many other Grand Slam champions had much easier draws and weaker opponents:
For example other Grand Slam champions faced Sabine Lisicki, Schiavone, Vinci, Errani, Bouchard, Cibulkova or a very nervous Vondrousova in Grand Slam finals

And Cara Black was great in doubles.
But we all know that singles is more important.

Serena: "We have great personalities like Jelena (Jankovic) on the tour."
Jelena: "If I had to pick someone after me, I'd pick Serena."


Serena Williams Maria Sharapova Jelena Jankovic
A. Radwanska V. Zvonareva C. Wozniacki P. Kvitova
N. Petrova A. Chakvetadze A. Myskina L. Davenport M. Hingis
A. Kournikova T. Paszek K. Sprem J. Dokic I. Tulyaganova
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post #42 of 59 (permalink) Old Jul 11th, 2019, 10:22 PM
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Well this is an appropriate comparison since Ostapenko can only win matches in doubles these days.
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post #43 of 59 (permalink) Old Jul 11th, 2019, 10:44 PM
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Re: Probably unpopular opinion: Cara Black is greater than Jelena Ostapenko

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Originally Posted by rucolo View Post
clay GOAT Halep
Please, stop.

Halep is an excellent player, but she is not Nadal.
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post #44 of 59 (permalink) Old Jul 11th, 2019, 10:48 PM
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Re: Probably unpopular opinion: Cara Black is greater than Jelena Ostapenko

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Originally Posted by Sammo View Post
The point I'm trying to make by comparing these two random players: all-time doubles great is more relevant to tennis history than someone who fluked a singles Slam.

Come at me.
..where's the poll?
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post #45 of 59 (permalink) Old Jul 12th, 2019, 12:14 AM
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Re: Probably unpopular opinion: Cara Black is greater than Jelena Ostapenko

When Nostalgia Goes REALLY WRONG.
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