Will Barty be one of the most consistent #1s in history? - Page 3 - TennisForum.com
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post #31 of 59 (permalink) Old Jun 24th, 2019, 08:51 AM
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Re: Will Barty be one of the most consistent #1s in history?

The tour desperatly needs a real #1. We can only hope she can keep that level.
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post #32 of 59 (permalink) Old Jun 24th, 2019, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by EkVraNaamEnVan View Post
Sometimes she gets back and arm injuries because of her serve, she doesn't have the height to bluff through aces. The pressure of being number is also a bit different, she won't only run to the courts to practice, there are PR events, and whatever her agent has up his sleeve. Surely she won't end up with only Vegemite and Fila. I also want her to take on Serena like she did Sharapova.
Sharapova was barely playing at 60% of her power and her serve was getting weaker and weaker by the end of that match. Seriously. Check that match again. Barty played great but Sharapova was not even close to the level she was playing at in set one or the previous matches...she was playing really weird.
Just rewatched the highlights and Maria just got outplayed. She was hitting the ball fine. Couldn’t handle Ash’s heavy forehands 🙂
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post #33 of 59 (permalink) Old Jun 25th, 2019, 12:14 PM
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Re: Will Barty be one of the most consistent #1s in history?

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Originally Posted by WilliamsOhanian View Post
She's gotten very, very good at beating players she's meant to beat.
Yes, but now she's meant to beat EVERYONE.

Considering her success at RG, I think she can be more consistent that everyone else who became number one after Azarenka. But we'll see how these next couple of months go. She could very well go on a tear.
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post #34 of 59 (permalink) Old Jun 25th, 2019, 01:32 PM
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Re: Will Barty be one of the most consistent #1s in history?

Barty has the potential to be a great number one because a win over her may actually mean something.

Kerber, Halep, and Osaka all froze under the spotlight.

Muguruza and Pliskova held the top spot too briefly to be in the conversation.
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post #35 of 59 (permalink) Old Jun 25th, 2019, 01:40 PM
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Re: Will Barty be one of the most consistent #1s in history?

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Barty has the potential to be a great number one because a win over her may actually mean something.



Kerber, Halep, and Osaka all froze under the spotlight.



Muguruza and Pliskova held the top spot too briefly to be in the conversation.

I donít think Halep was actually crushed by the pressure like Kerber and Osaka. Halep really seemed to enjoy being number one, but wasnít willing to continue with the mental and physical commitment required to keep it.

I think the difference is that Halep was expected to do it and hadnít so the pressure of NOT doing was worse than when she actually achieved it. It was more of a relief when she did it. Also she wasnít new to the spotlight.

Kerber and Osaka came out of nowhere and looked like deer in headlights after achieving it. Osaka needs to learn to say no to some media/promotion stuff and get back to focusing on her tennis which Iím confident she will do.




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post #36 of 59 (permalink) Old Jun 26th, 2019, 04:43 PM
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Re: Will Barty be one of the most consistent #1s in history?

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I donít think Halep was actually crushed by the pressure like Kerber and Osaka. Halep really seemed to enjoy being number one, but wasnít willing to continue with the mental and physical commitment required to keep it.

I think the difference is that Halep was expected to do it and hadnít so the pressure of NOT doing was worse than when she actually achieved it. It was more of a relief when she did it. Also she wasnít new to the spotlight.
I'll add in, Halep enjoyed being #1, but she also was redlining her game and body to win at that level. Halep played (and plays) many, many more matches where she has to be absolutely on her game to win than a lot of other players. Not a criticism, as I greatly enjoyed Halep's aggressive counterpunching style, but you got the sense she could never take a break.

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Kerber and Osaka came out of nowhere and looked like deer in headlights after achieving it. Osaka needs to learn to say no to some media/promotion stuff and get back to focusing on her tennis which Iím confident she will do.
I'm not 100% sure Osaka will turn down some of the promotional stuff. Her success as a family bread winner reminds me, frankly, of Kournikova, who famously said something along the lines of "what, I'm supposed to say no to free money?"

For all Osaka's strengths, I'm not confident she loves the work required to be a great tennis player, and her strengths aren't such that she can slack off. Her serve is excellent, but she doesn't place it as consistently well as other great servers, and she seems less focused on her service games than other great servers. Those aren't things you can easily snap out of, they require discipline to maintain.

I don't doubt that the primary reason Osaka ditched Bajin was because of his claiming too much credit for her success, but it does strike me as interesting that the reason she gave was about happiness. The subtext is that the work he put her through, which resulted in success at the highest level, wasn't worth it. That doesn't sound like someone who has the kind of hunger to turn down easy money (i.e. sponsorships) as a trade-off for focusing on tennis.

I could be wrong. I'd be glad to be wrong. But it's somewhat up to her to prove it.
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post #37 of 59 (permalink) Old Jun 26th, 2019, 05:01 PM
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Re: Will Barty be one of the most consistent #1s in history?

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Osaka came out of nowhere and looked like deer in headlights after achieving it. Osaka needs to learn to say no to some media/promotion stuff and get back to focusing on her tennis which I’m confident she will do.

I really can't blame naomi with the amount of endorsements she has got, it is very hard to refuse the money. The lifestyle everyone dreams of. But she has big goals and has won 2 slams of last 3. So i will cut her slack right now. She is 21. Enough time to bounce back
But i hope she takes the exclusive high paying endorsements over unlimited amount of endorsements, so it won't distract her from her goals of achieving the amount of slams she wishes for. Hardwork is necessary and i know her game is suitable for winning majors when she is on. So i am sure she will figure her out and will come out of her slump. Her clay season overall was better than last years one which is a good thing. Barty is good but the way people are hyping her is like she is second coming of jesus. No offense but her rg draw opened up big time and she did great job of that opportunity. This forum writes everyone off. I mean girl is holding 2 slams and they are already writing her off. I will never doubt naomi at all
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post #38 of 59 (permalink) Old Nov 3rd, 2019, 11:04 PM
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Re: Will Barty be one of the most consistent #1s in history?

If Ash was more clutch and improved her BH, she could be no1 for a long time. Her style of play is not that demanding for her body, because she uses more technique, not only raw power. Also she exposes lack of variety of a lot of players, so it will help her too. But I think there is too big competition to stay in this position for a long time: there is Osaka, Andreescu, maybe someone new will come. Still Ash impressed me this year with her consistency, especially after winning her maiden slam, she managed it well.
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post #39 of 59 (permalink) Old Nov 3rd, 2019, 11:25 PM
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It depends what this question means exactly:

- Will she be consistently at #1 for a long long time?
I doubt it, theres a diverse field who are all great players. Probably consistent Top 10.

- Will she be consistently playing at this level for a long long time?
Yes, ignoring injuries. Ash is perhaps the most consistent player in the tour, and I don’t mean on not hitting errors, but consistency in her level. Throughout her career she’s never had dips in form. Ofcourse a big factor to that is her strong technique fundamentals, all court game and professional attitude.
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post #40 of 59 (permalink) Old Nov 4th, 2019, 02:11 AM
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Yes, but now she's meant to beat EVERYONE.
This was from a while ago, and I take your point in that the #1 is, in theory, the favorite in every match.

But, more to the point, Barty simply doesn't lose to players who aren't already at least somewhat dangerous.

The only loss this season that was a genuine surprise to me was the Wang/Qiang loss, and that may be a case of me underrating Wang/Qiang than anything else.

Really, dating back quite a ways, she doesn't suffer shock losses to absolute shockers. She hasn't had a loss on par with Muguruza-Muchova or Pliskova-Sasnovich or any of those big recent-breakthrough losses to lower ranked players.

Riske on grass is disappointing but not embarrassing. Mladenovic on clay is disappointing but not embarrassing. Kenin generally is disappointing but not embarrassing. In general, unless you think in advance, "this might be a tough match", Barty wins it.

That right there is a level of consistency we haven't seen in a long time among challengers for the top.

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- Will she be consistently playing at this level for a long long time?
Yes, ignoring injuries. Ash is perhaps the most consistent player in the tour, and I don’t mean on not hitting errors, but consistency in her level. Throughout her career she’s never had dips in form. Ofcourse a big factor to that is her strong technique fundamentals, all court game and professional attitude.
That right there is a huge thing: her serve dips for X number of games, but she recovers always. She hasn't gotten the yips, she hasn't lost the court, she hasn't done anything really to demonstrate the kind of loss of form that some players go through.

On top of that, she doesn't seem to be redlining her body to achieve these results.

The other thing I'll say, this was really her first season playing an exclusively elite season.

2017, she was still playing qualies some events, and played a fair number of Int'l events (Kuala Lumpur, Strasbourg, Nottingham)

2018, she was playing mostly Premiers but also Nottingham (won it) and Strasbourg (SF, ret.), but also a few Premiers that didn't really make a ton of sense if she was expecting to be winning big titles (Charleston, Tokyo)

This season she was still scheduled at Strasbourg and Nottingham (withdrew, justifiably) but cut out a lot of the excess events.

She played Sydney-Australian Open, Indian Wells-Miami, Madrid-Rome-French Open, Birmingham-Wimbledon, Canada-Cincinnati-US Open, and Wuhan-Beijing-YEC. That's a VERY spare calendar, and she only lost early at....Canada, Rome, and Indian Wells, and even at Indian Wells she won a pair of matches.

If she maintains a schedule like that, it's hard to see how she picks up points if she stumbles, but at the same time she's only losing early(-ish) on the first tournament of a given season: Indian Wells first tournament after the Australian season, Rome the first tournament of the European season, Canada the first tournament of the American season....

It's just a really well balanced calendar without much 'flab' to it, and I can imagine her performing even more impressively next year by, for example, having a better appreciation of the early matches at Indian Wells/Rome/Canada.

Last edited by WilliamsOhanian; Nov 4th, 2019 at 03:08 AM. Reason: Premature Post
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post #41 of 59 (permalink) Old Nov 4th, 2019, 04:24 AM
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Barty by being good in all surfaces, having that great serve (both first and second) to tide her over periods where her ground strokes go awry, and general variety and layers to her game will help her be consistent throughout the year.

She also seems to avoid injuries mostly, of course by playing not too many singles tournaments, but she also played a lot of doubles matches, so maybe that strategy works for her.

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post #42 of 59 (permalink) Old Nov 4th, 2019, 08:03 AM
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Re: Will Barty be one of the most consistent #1s in history?

This year was okay for a #1 player: One GS-title plus YEC. But no other Grand Slam final or semi final.
Yes, it was more consistant than any player in recent years.
But please remember Graf, Seles or Navratilova. They barely lost any matches!
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post #43 of 59 (permalink) Old Nov 4th, 2019, 09:24 AM
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Re: Will Barty be one of the most consistent #1s in history?

It's a weird mix of feeling for me because Barty's game doesn't scream No.1 to me yet she somehow managed to stay relevant throughout the year, and won big titles like Miami, RG and now YEC. One of those situations where I have to admit I don't see it, but it's going on.
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post #44 of 59 (permalink) Old Nov 4th, 2019, 09:39 AM
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Re: Will Barty be one of the most consistent #1s in history?

If you asked one year ago, who would be YE #1 and PotY for 2019, I would have named at least 10 before Barty. I dont know if she can win more big titles and stay #1 for years, but she seems to be physically tough with good movement, and you need both of those to last near the top
It was an amazing breakout year. Same for Andreescu, who started in New Zealand qualies
Osaka also played well when she was in form, all 3 are young and have years ahead
I'm interested to see how 2020 goes. These 3, Serena. and other contenders like Halep & Kvitova (who were in the last 2 AO finals), and several others like Pliskova, Svitolina, Bencic, all have a chance
It should be a good 2020 with 3 generations. The young stars, the veterans nearing 30 and Serena at 38
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post #45 of 59 (permalink) Old Nov 4th, 2019, 04:41 PM
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Re: Will Barty be one of the most consistent #1s in history?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamsOhanian View Post
This was from a while ago, and I take your point in that the #1 is, in theory, the favorite in every match.

But, more to the point, Barty simply doesn't lose to players who aren't already at least somewhat dangerous.
I had to chop off the rest of your post otherwise my post will be too long.

The days of a Clijsters or a Sharapova or a Serena being a legitimate threat in every single tournament is not something you can expect these days. I think Halep got close a few years ago but never as #1. I haven't seen anything from any current #1 that suggests we're going to get back to those days. So the answer is no, Ash will not be one of the most consistent #1s in history. Do we really think she can string together a season that matches up to Serena 2013 or Justine 2007 or Hingis 1997? Those are the #1s I look to when we say "consistent #1," because a #1 should constantly winning.

But if we reassess that based on what consistency looks like today, I don't think Ash has to be that dominant. If she can complete a season where she's at least in the SFs of 12/17 tournaments, winning 4/17 tournaments (including a couple of Tier Is), making the SFs of 2/4 slams then yeah I would say that's a level of consistency should be applauded today. (and I wouldn't even expect that player to win a slam.) Because no one since Azarenka has done that (obviously bar Serena).
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