Roland Garros Wild cards announced - Page 7 - TennisForum.com
 95Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #91 of 140 (permalink) Old May 16th, 2019, 06:12 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 6,479
                     
Re: Roland Garros Wild cards announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by guichard View Post
I am using her clay result . Players from Slam nations are not more important but that's the world we live in
Why are her clay results relevant to Wimbledon? No one ever said they were?

"That's the world we live in" and nothing can ever change? Pretty pathetic world view imo.
gold fangs is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 140 (permalink) Old May 16th, 2019, 06:41 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,729
                     
Re: Roland Garros Wild cards announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by gold fangs View Post
Why are her clay results relevant to Wimbledon? No one ever said they were?



"That's the world we live in" and nothing can ever change? Pretty pathetic world view imo.


They are not . I am saying if French Federation decided to give WC to the winner of clay tournaments.

What’s the incentive for them to change ? Really none


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
guichard is online now  
post #93 of 140 (permalink) Old May 16th, 2019, 06:45 PM
Senior Member
 
Dawson.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,753
                     
Re: Roland Garros Wild cards announced

Annual “worst WCs of the year” announced, more like.

Judging you based on the players in your sig.
Dawson. is offline  
 
post #94 of 140 (permalink) Old May 16th, 2019, 06:47 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 2,956
                     
Re: Roland Garros Wild cards announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by gold fangs View Post
They should certainly be more transparent. There have been some very dodgy WCs away from Slams (Alyssa Mayo in Bogota last year, anyone).

I don't begrudge local WCs at non-Slams because smaller tournaments need all the help they can get in selling tickets and breaking even. Slams quite obviously do not have this problem. Roland Garros doesn't need Chloe Paquet in the draw to turn a profit, nor does Wimbledon need Katy Dunne or the AO need Ellen Perez or the USO need Madison Brengle.

I'd definitely like to see more regional opportunities at PMs and P5s - people always go off at the Miami WCs because of the IMG connection, but I'd rather see Miami's annual selection of international young talent than the same parade of Americans who get endless WCs year after year.

Wang Qiang would have been a prime candidate for a Beijing WC regardless of her nationality given her record to that point, years on top 100 etc, so she's a pretty bad example.

IMO there should be a limit on how many WCs a player can receive, not just per year but from year to year. No more than two Slam WCs per year, maybe even one - and no WCs at a Slam for more than two consecutive years. (If you've been given two free passes, by the third year you should have got your ranking up under your own steam - but this leaves open the possibility of getting WCs if you become a top player and then fall due to injury, later in your career.)
Hi gold fangs, nice to see you back after your absence.

I agree that the likes of Paquet, Dunne, Perez (and many others) aren't necessarily needed. They may win a round with the right draw (fellow WC, someone who hates grass / clay etc.), but they are very fortunate, and most likely there just to make up the numbers, and yes, Wang's fine Wuhan run should have warranted a WC into Beijing, just like Sakkari's the year before, but my main point was, someone ultimately benefited from place of birth initially (to get into Wuhan) and subsequently (Beijing), whereas the Greek didn't, and thus the whole landscape isn't really a level playing field.
Paullow is offline  
post #95 of 140 (permalink) Old May 17th, 2019, 12:33 AM
Senior Member
 
Luca Van Diesel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 7,731
                     
Re: Roland Garros Wild cards announced

absolutely fantastic to have Gold Fangs back. couldn't care less about the WCs at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaisons View Post
LAST bet for 3 weeks, going to Japan the week after.

3K on Pav tomorrow against Sarita.
Vamos

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaisons View Post
I am taking a long break now. Reached my goal of 2x,xxx today . gl from now on
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaisons View Post
She won this, Vinci has nothing to hurt her.
Vinci d. Benčič 6-4 6-3
Luca Van Diesel is online now  
post #96 of 140 (permalink) Old May 17th, 2019, 03:11 AM
Jem
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 2,370
                     
Wild cards for home slams don't bother me at all -- it's a way for these nations to throw some dollars to the development of their players just as some other nations do. I do like the way Wimbledon has some criteria for their home WCs -- don't you have to be at least 250 or above to qualify for main draw WC? Regardless, the level of players are now so competitive that even someone in the 200s or lowers can knock off the higher players .And there's been more than one occasion where a virtually no ranked player won a first round or even made it to the third round.
hablo likes this.
Jem is offline  
post #97 of 140 (permalink) Old May 17th, 2019, 07:37 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 6,479
                     
Re: Roland Garros Wild cards announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by guichard View Post
They are not . I am saying if French Federation decided to give WC to the winner of clay tournaments.

What’s the incentive for them to change ? Really none


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Public and media pressure. That's the reason Wimbledon stopped just handing out all their WCs to British scrubs - the press kept mocking how bad and undeserving the likes of Bogdanovic were. So the AELTC introduced actual minimum standards, and that's why Wimbledon's WCs are the fairest now.

There are plenty of loud voices in the tennis world against the reciprocal WCs and how these opportunities are handed out, it's not an immutable thing we have to accept forever.

You can actually see the effects already even at RG - this year they instituted a French WC race and rewarded last year's junior champion, which they've never done before. Far from perfect but a tiny bit better than just handing everything out without explanation and unconnected to actual results.
tennis-frog likes this.
gold fangs is offline  
post #98 of 140 (permalink) Old May 17th, 2019, 07:56 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 230
                     
Re: Roland Garros Wild cards announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jem View Post
I do like the way Wimbledon has some criteria for their home WCs -- don't you have to be at least 250 or above to qualify for main draw WC?
It's not an official rule but it's generally followed except under special circumstances such as Tara Moore being snubbed after a dreadful year, or promising juniors like Katie Swan and Emma Raducanu.
jamatthews83 is offline  
post #99 of 140 (permalink) Old May 17th, 2019, 10:06 AM
Senior Member
 
Javi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 26,382
                     
Re: Roland Garros Wild cards announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca Van Diesel View Post
absolutely fantastic to have Gold Fangs back.
Exactly my thoughts when I was reading this thread. You were missed @gold fangs
Javi is offline  
post #100 of 140 (permalink) Old May 17th, 2019, 12:55 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 132
                     
Re: Roland Garros Wild cards announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paullow View Post
Some fair points there as well and Ponchet, and other 'leading' players from US, Aus and France (outside of the main draw cut) do benefit from that reciprocal agreement and certainly more than players from those other European countries you mention. This next point isn't necessarily aimed at you, more generally, but what about the advantages for the Chinese players? It doesn't host a slam, but it has a PM, P5, a new P from next year and about 8 internationals, plus the WTA finals, and Elite trophy - much more than France, and in fact more than any other country, including the USA.

Wang Qiang's Chinese run last year was absolutely amazing and you could say it's what WCs are all about, but if she had the South Korea or Thailand flag next to her name instead then she certainly wouldn't be anywhere near 16th in the world right now and getting byes and seeding into the likes of Miami, IW, Rome and Madrid, simply because she wouldn't have had the opportunity to do what she did last Autumn.

She got an expected MDWC into Wuhan P5 last year due to her birth place, fair enough, but for overseas players with her ranking at the time, it would have been qualifying at best. She was playing great until she was worn out by the time she faced Kontaveit in the semi finals and retired - imagine what she would have been like with 2 or 3 extra qualifying matches prior to that... Maria Sakkari also reached the Wuhan SF the year before, but she wasn't allowed to play Beijing PM the following week as the semi final clashed with Beijing quals - where was her Beijing MDWC there (for those referencing Teichmann and Bacsinszky, it was certainly more deserved than Duan who got one simply for being Chinese, despite being 28 years old and ranked 99)? Wang not only used her birth privileges to get another MDWC into Beijing the following week, but to also get a performance bye into the second round. Is Wang more important than Sakkari, or should she be? She's just fortunate that her country is ploughing in all the money it currently is, and hosting all these very big events, just like the slam nations players are fortunate that their country hosts a slam.

Slams are obviously the most prestigious tournaments, but free entry into P5 and PMs and all the points and money that come with that can be just as lucrative. If you scrapped WCs altogether then it would be a far level playing field, not a rule for one, but not the other.
Take your point totally Paullow re China - and you highlighted why I left them out of my initial thoughts and that their players could come by certain frequent opportunities shall we say. Often get wangs confused so did a bit of research and yes she did beat some good players. The only comment I would add is that when I look at the current top 20 of both genders, then out of 40 there are only 7 players (none of them British by the way as you are probably well aware) that come from the grand slam nations plus China so I just think - and I know this might seem an obvious thing to say - but perhaps that if a player is good enough then they will find a way to reach the top with or without them.
A131 is offline  
post #101 of 140 (permalink) Old May 17th, 2019, 01:11 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 132
                     
Re: Roland Garros Wild cards announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jem View Post
Wild cards for home slams don't bother me at all -- it's a way for these nations to throw some dollars to the development of their players just as some other nations do. I do like the way Wimbledon has some criteria for their home WCs -- don't you have to be at least 250 or above to qualify for main draw WC? Regardless, the level of players are now so competitive that even someone in the 200s or lowers can knock off the higher players .And there's been more than one occasion where a virtually no ranked player won a first round or even made it to the third round.
Though the stats might have improved slightly last year Wimbledon does have one of the worst records for home players allocated a wc being knocked out in the first round so even with this so called better criteria they are still behind the USA, France and Australia. OK - those 3 countries might allocate more to their own players but still not a great record. Really do think it is also a bit of a fallacy that receiving a wild card to the main draw of a grand slam aids the development of a player (certainly a lot of British players like Bogdanovic, James Ward, Liam Broady, Dan Cox - failed or have failed so far to make any major impact on the sport). If a player is good enough and puts in the necessary application then they will develop irrespective of whether they are handed wc's (at any event) or not.
A131 is offline  
post #102 of 140 (permalink) Old May 18th, 2019, 07:59 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,041
                     
Re: Roland Garros Wild cards announced

What I don't understand - these obscure juniors Selena Janicijevic and Elsa Jacquemot - they have not even given them WCs into main draw or qualifying into any of the other recent senior events for them to gain experience - Cagnes-sur-Mer, St Gaudens or Strasbourg. In fact Strasbourg has some even more obscure offerings in the qualifying - Evita Ramirez v Emiline Dartron, who TF are they??? Surely it is better that these girls have a bit more senior experience before walking out on court at Stade Roland Garros or are the FFT afraid that they would receive a double bagel drubbing like Julie Gervais at the hands of Beatriz Haddad Maia the other week? It is like the reverse of a play off - hiding your players away so no one can see how bad they really are!!!

Given the recent performances of the other WCs, this does not bode well. Paquet was the only MDWC to have a reasonable performance at St Gaudens, reaching the qf unseeded. But Ponchet was double baguetted by Tereza Martincova (!), Tan lost to QWC Tessah, who then achieved one game from Bogdan 2r, Albie and Yerolymos lost to a qualifier and a lucky loser in straight sets respectively! Collectively I think we call call that performance St Garbage!
*Jool* likes this.

Last edited by StephenUK; May 18th, 2019 at 08:09 AM. Reason: change word
StephenUK is offline  
post #103 of 140 (permalink) Old May 18th, 2019, 09:32 AM
Senior Member
 
Javi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 26,382
                     
Re: Roland Garros Wild cards announced

Not at Hesse complaining in social media of finally being snubbed after her horrible form and winning like 5 games total in her last 4 MD WCs combined
Javi is offline  
post #104 of 140 (permalink) Old May 18th, 2019, 09:39 AM
Senior Member
 
Latvian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 153
                     
Diana Marcinkevica def. MDWC Audrey Albie 6:3 6:1
StephenUK and Siegerin like this.
Latvian is offline  
post #105 of 140 (permalink) Old May 18th, 2019, 10:03 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Marseille
Posts: 17,042
                     
Re: Roland Garros Wild cards announced

Paquet will probably be the most "competent" WC players at RG...... that's saying a lot!
StephenUK likes this.
Nicolas is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TennisForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome