Mod messages - non permanent FEB 05 update -
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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old Nov 24th, 2004, 10:32 PM Thread Starter
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Post Mod messages - non permanent FEB 05 update

Dear CCLers,

Due to the end of the relationship of Kim and Lleyton it's an appropriate moment now to look at some threads.

Two changes have been made:

- thread of LLL is closed

- thread Kim/lleyton convos is closed

LLL was closed by Griffin. I was going to do the very same, so I agree.
However, I don't agree re the method, but I'll take it up with the persons involved.

I closed the convo thread today.

Now, why all this, you will ask.

You all deserve an explanation, that's how we do things here.
I can't please everyone, but I will always explain why.

So, why is LLL closed?

- I had been thinking about it for quite some time after LLL at MTF was back up again, as that was the only reason LLL was created on CCL after all. I had asked posters back then to stop posting here and go to MTF, quite some preferred not to, so I respected that wish and left it here as it still made some sense considering the Kim/Lleyton relation.
- Things have changed now of course so I felt we should move on too.
- LLL at MTF is a nice place for all Lleykis, so why wouldn't it be now? It's not like it used to be when the thread was created that there wasn't any 'haven' any more to post. I'm sure that people will get used to MTF after a bit, all changes take some time to adapt.
- By leaving the LLL thread open, I would not be helpful to people to get adapted to posting on LLL at MTF either. And what if, one day, Kim will have another relationship, suppose it's a tennis player (just for arguments' sake, mind you, I'm not making any rumour here ) , how weird wouldn't it look then if we would still have an active LLL thread alive?

As to closing the convos thread, why there?
Quite the same reason in fact, as their relationship is over I think it doesn't make sense to keep on posting and creating convos between them then.
I've not been a real fan of that thread, I have to admit it, but I have always respected it because of all the people who loved it so much.
However, as things have changed now, I think it's way too weird to keep that thread open.

I hope that you all understand this latest change.

Mind you, in no way I think that any of these threads should be deleted: that in my opinion would be VERY rude, very disrespectful to all the posters who contributed there.

(I mention this especially as I have received demands or suggestions to totally delete stuff. I won't do this, NEVER. Think this is quite clear. )

I still have to adapt our rules too, Lleyton is still mentioned there too, that's for a later date.

So, again, I hope everyone will understand the reasons for my decision.

I also would like to thank you all who contributed to these two threads, for all your efforts and posts. I know that many people were looking forward to new posts in both threads each time. Thanks for everything!

Your mod,


Last edited by KaseyL; Jan 6th, 2005 at 11:02 PM. Reason: edited title
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 2004, 08:47 AM
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This seems totally fair to me.

Patiently waiting to join the silver surfers
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 2004, 12:38 PM Thread Starter
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As we are slowly getting to the end of the year, Iíd like to post some personal observations re this yearís CCL.

Sorry for making it into such a long post, most probably a record , but I feel strongly about it.

On questionable posts

I think that this board is somehow self-running for most of the time, thanks to the discipline of most of CCL posters and thanks to the frame I have set out in the past.

Most people know how to behave in here, so thatís very nice to see for anyone managing a messageboard.

However, we always have our share of other posters too, thatís just normal. Some people seem to think that they can behave differently, that they can go further than in a real face to face setting, when they have the protection of anonymity and a computer screenÖWe will always have such people and this year was no different. So from time to time I have to use the delete button or get out my whipÖ.

It would help me a great deal though if people would just stop reacting to such posts, if people would just ignore them and send me a PM with the request of taking action instead. Another way is to make fun of it. Itís like laughing at a flasher in a park instead of screaming. Really, nothing will hurt such posters more than to ignore them and leave dealing with them to the moderators, or use humor instead. They always achieve what they want if people react to them by getting upset. I know itís hard not to react, but it would make things far more easier (lazy selfish mod here ).

There have been moments when I didnít sufficiently support some CCLers against such posters either, when I wasnít sure how to react in the best way. I have talked things through with these CCLers as they deserved better support, and have taken a few lessons from such events.

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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 2004, 12:39 PM
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yeah I think it is a good decision


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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 2004, 12:39 PM Thread Starter
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cont. message:

About my own role here

That said, I must say that I havenít been here as active as I sometimes wanted to be. There are several reasons for this.

1) One is simply that I have a live outside the board. Some people seem to think that a mod should be here 24/7, if youíd see some complaining posts that I have received in the past why this or that wasnít done yet, wasnít updated or whatever...

Iím doing what I can, within reason, within my free time, just like any mod should do.

Iím not here to hold hands, or put my bed in here, as none should; it just wouldnít be a healthy situation.

In that sense I would be very grateful if people would be willing to understand this fact and stop mailing me to complain why this or that wasnít done yet. Itís all very normal to do so if it is with good reason; I mean when something wasnít tackled or done since weeksÖThen I should get a complaint or better, a friendly reminder, by all means.

People can always contact me, PM me, mail me, use msn, whatever, if something is the matter and they want to discuss it or bring it to my attention. I have no problem with it at all, thatís part of my role too. It can take some days before Iím able to reply, but I will reply to any decent question or mail.

I do have a problem if people behave like spoilt children and are unreasonable, however. Sorry for being so blunt, but I feel this is the best way to get my message across to the ones concerned.

2) Another reason is that my life has been particularly demanding and challenging, more than good for someone, but thatís how life is sometimes, nothing to be done about that.

So if you donít Ďseeí me sometimes, itís most probably because I just donít have the time or the energy at that moment. I canít predict how my week will look like, so I hardly can predict when I can be here to do more than simply guarding the postings.

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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 2004, 12:41 PM Thread Starter
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cont. message:

3) Yet another reason and not an unimportant one either, is that I have some mixed feelings about CCL at times. Let me explain.

When Clijsters City was still on Yahoo messageboards, it felt differently. I canít say why, but thatís how I perceive it. Even when we started out here on wtaworld because of wtaworldís offer to harbour us here from mid 2002 on instead of through Yahoo (when we were looking for another server instead of Yahooís for both website and messageboard), it felt differently.

CCL, aka Clijsters City, has a different history and is not really the same as most of the boards and fansites which were created later on at wtaworld.

I have been a very active contributor to both website and board, but stopped my posts on the website due to the time it took (tools arenít so practical in my opinion) and to the limitation of the site itself, which frustrated me a lot, compared to the previous website Nwando, aka mrs Guga, created on Yahoo. I can say that Nwando shared similar thoughts but did want to continue posting on the site while I then would focus on the messageboard itself. Due to some good reasons she had later on, she stopped contributing to the site too. I fully respect and understand that.

At present Iím the only one who is actively managing this board but thatís no problem since, as I mentioned before, itís sort of self-running thanks to the discipline of most of the CCLers.

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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 2004, 12:42 PM
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LLL and convo thread are " deleted " it feels so weird ( no offence tho )

well it will be just me, who can't exept all this!
I'm so sorrrrrrryyyyyyy guys

almost "Feels like home " no more ... neither my fault or yours, just the fact of them being apart i guess! Cannot accept it :
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 2004, 12:42 PM Thread Starter
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cont. message:

On the nature of certain posts on CCL

Now, coming to the heart of my problem, I have to say that there have been moments that I was putting some question marks re certain things that I saw happening on CCL. I have also been reluctant to post translations, pics, scansÖ at times as a result.

I feel like putting question marks when I notice that at certain moments interesting, even in-depth interviews hardly get any reaction, when anyone should be thinking that such topics would generate quite some posts with thoughts, remarks, in brief; a debate of some kindÖI then start to wonder why the h*ll do I still bother to take so much free time to do translations for instance, and why other CCLers are doing all their translating and news hunting work for in the endÖ

Moreover, on the other hand I see numbers of posts about e.g. a wedding dress. As such, mind you, there is nothing wrong with that whatsoever, Iím just putting a question mark behind the balance of it all.

Iím seriously wondering where the balance on a tennis fan board is if posters hardly react to undeniably interesting and long interviews related to Kimís tennis, but generate numerous posts about other issues. It certainly frustrated me enormously this year and made me skip posting quite a number of translations and other contributions in the end.

I donít intend to reprimand people in here by mentioning this observation of mine, by no means, but Iíd like to have some people starting to reflect on this matter though.

Just for example I know that quite some former regulars of CCL, or of the former Clijsters City yahoo board, donít feel at home here anymore because of that perceived imbalance and also the feeling of a girls-only club at times.

Therefore Iíd like to invite all CCLers to seriously think about this, in a positive, constructive way, just like sharing my observation with you all is meant to be.

I certainly donít feel that there is anything wrong with any thread as such, itís also normal and good that we talk about other things too, why not, it doesnít have to be tennis all day (especially in a year full of disasters and bad luck for Kim). But if it is starting to look almost like you have to make a post about Kimís private life to get reactions or a debate going on, instead of tennis, than I feel we should start to think about it though.

Sorry if I have offended anyone with this remark, thatís not my intention, but I feel so strongly about it that I needed to get this off my chest and bring it up in here.

Again, NO problem whatsoever with any thread, but do please consider my observation, thatís all I intend to achieve.

Iíd like to guard CCL as a place for everyone, no matter if you are young or older, male or female, Belgian or from another country, and so onÖ as long as you are a fan of Kim of course. Some threads will appeal to younger ones, some to all, some rather to girls, some to people just looking for a smile, Ö thatís all all right, AS LONG as we also get enough decent conversations, posts re tennis articles and news itself when that news or article is actually posted.

Therefore I hope that posters will reflect on this observation of me today.

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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 2004, 12:50 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lovekimmie
LLL and convo thread are " deleted " it feels so weird ( no offence tho )

well it will be just me, who can't exept all this!
I'm so sorrrrrrryyyyyyy guys

almost "Feels like home " no more ... neither my fault or yours, just the fact of them being apart i guess! Cannot accept it :
It's OK. They aren't deleted though, out of respect for the people who posted in there, and as a memory of better times for Kim and Lleyton. That's why I will never be willing to delete them, no matter how much PM's I'd get.
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 2004, 12:56 PM Thread Starter
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Last part

A last observation, a very direct one, now that Iím in my reflecting mood

As a mod, but also as a regular poster, I notice something else at times that gives me quite some food for concern.
I have been pondering long about this before daring to post it, as I donít want to upset or hurt people in here, but I feel by being open that it might be a helpful post in some way for some people.

I have the impression, through my role as a mod here and being a regular, and through my own professional background, that some people have the tendency to live their lives through Kim (and Lleyton back then) somehow.

Iím not saying that there is something wrong in being a fan, thank goodness, no, or that one shouldnít be feeling for whatís going on in Kimís life, or anything of that kind.

What I do mean is that I have the impression, right or wrong I donít know, that some people seem to depend their own happiness on someone elseís; in this case Kimís.

It worries me quite a bit and if Iím indeed right, than I hope that what Iím about to write might be helpful in some way to someone here one day.

This observation might look quite over the edge, but I do hope that it might be helpful for some reflection and some positive change for some people.

If someoneís happiness is determined by others, it will always result in the personís own unhappiness. Why? Because you have to make your own moments of happiness in life instead of living through others, be it a celebrity or someone else. Nobody can substitute.

Itís understandable and perfectly natural that people use a fan board also to get their mind off things in their life, or for relaxation, for fun, to meet new friends,Ö

I met some interesting and lovely people through tennis, made quite some new friends too along the way, had a great time and many laughs here, and so onÖ and donít regret it for a minute.

However, itís getting worrisome when people seem to let their happiness depend on whatís going on in the life of somebody else, someone like Kim in this case.

It touches me and worries me when I observe how some fans sometimes seem to live through Kim. Itís a situation that shouldnít last too long, as it is a very tricky one.

Over the past years I have spent quite some time in supporting people that were in suchs situations, into small or big extend. I canít do that for everyone as I donít have the time.

So what I want to say to whom it might concern, is that no matter how sad things might be in someoneís life, if you think that all parents suck, or all teachers suck, or all men suck, or life sucks, or what not else, it will suck then, for sure.

If youíre looking at things differently, with a positive, hoping approach, even when you think there is no reason for hope or for a smile; you will have put the first step to some luck and some change in your life. The sun will shine on you at times, if you are willing and daring to open your eyes.

Speaking from my own experiences, itís my strong belief since many years that you donít have to wait for others to make you happy, or that, if you are not happy, that you can cover that lack by living through the life of someone else. Itís up to your own view on things that something might change for the better one day. You have to start being positive, other people can lend a hand, show a possible path, but itís you who have to walk it.

This year a close friend was going through a lot: a divorce, had lost her job, and had lost her self-confidence; she found that she was worthless as a person and that her life was a failure.

I have given her a small gift that I had made; a frame as one of the ways I used to helping her. The frame held the following quote; a quote I think might be very helpful to some people in here:

ĎFollow your bliss and donít be afraid, and doors will open where you didnít know they were going to beí. Itís from Joseph Campbell.

I think that this quote sums things up in a great way.

It might sound old fashioned, as it is an old quote from a professor who died many years ago, but it has great value for everyoneís life, in my opinion.

Furthermore, Iíd like to give an example of how your mindset can alter things.

Itís something that happened to me this year. Since more than two years I had a certain dream (in the sense of an aspiration) that I shared with two close friends only this year. The first one found it a great idea and she hoped I would get it done, the other one found it great too but started by saying that he thought it to be totally impossible, that I would be disappointed and not achieve it at all for this and that reason, all very logic and all. Some months later, by paying attention to details, by keeping my eyes open, and through my persistent belief in the possibility, no matter how difficult it looked, I got lucky and I could get in contact with someone who might be the key person to helping me out. So this was a huge step forward to making my dream come true one day.

First it seemed like there was a huge forest between my aspiration and reality, and there was no really feasible path through that forest. Then, by daring to cut the beginning of a path through that forest, I was opened to opportunities others were thinking as impossible to achieve.

I donít know if Iíll be able to fully achieve that particular dream, but at least I have tried, am still working on it, and I created possibilities instead of burying all hope in advance.

People can do a lot of things, and achieve some happiness, if you just start to believe in yourself and dare to walk an unknown path in your life, dare to look for doors that will open for you. Nobody needs to live his life through someone elseís, or depend on some happiness by whatís going on in someone elseís life, like Kimís for instance.

In this sense, and on a side note, Iím also thinking about a quote from an Australian sport journalist (donít know his name anymore, I have the article somewhere but Iím sure quite some people here will know the article) who said once that Lleytonís mom was living her life through her sonÖHe might have been on the money, I dunno.

Iíll end my thoughts on the following note, from a frame I created some years ago when I decorated my house; I still have it at the wall at home.

Itís even an older quote, from the 19th century, by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, and a very true quote imo:

ĎPerseverance is a great element of success. If you only knock long enough and loud enough at the gate, you are sure to wake up somebody.í

On that note, sorry for my very long post, forgive my frankness.

I do wish everyone all the best, and especially for those here who donít really believe in their own possibility for some happiness anymore.

Love and hugs,


Last edited by KaseyL; Nov 25th, 2004 at 01:02 PM.
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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 2004, 01:44 PM
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I'm sorry Ingrid ... i'm aware of this.
And what you say makes perfect sense, i can only say: " i'm sorry "
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 2004, 01:54 PM
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A very touching, lovely post Ingrid and I absolutely agree with it
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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 2004, 03:28 PM
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Very good posts, Ingrid, coming from an intelligent woman, apparentely with some life experience.

I've had the feeling that things changed here since quite some time though I wasn't a poster from the early beginning.
I agree with everything you say but wouldn't be able to write such posts. I do think it's a pity Lleyton's thread had to disappear, but I totally understand why.
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 2004, 04:58 PM
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Ingrid you spoke from my heart!!!

Le temps de la colŤre, les femmes
Notre temps, est arrivť
Connaissons notre force, les femmes
Dťcouvrons-nous des milliers !

L'hymne des femmes
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 2004, 05:35 PM
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didn't really posted here much for many reasons u said here ingrid...
just wanted to let u know that i support your decision to close the threads..and that your messages are really worth reading! there very good and they make sense...
For me this is a great board, but i must say that i prefer talking bout kim's recovery and her comeback..and her tennis matches more than about all the other stuff...i'm not saying i never post in the other threads coz i'd be lying and sometimes gossiping is fun i admit! but lately there is more gossiping going on and it's less intresting...i used to come here every day hoping to have some news bout kim's comeback and her health...thinking bout it now i still check almost every day but not with the same exitment..more out of habit u know! and every time i end up dissapointed coz i didn't get to read anything intresting bout kim's tennislife!
bout the 'living through kim's life' part..i can c why some poeple wnat that and need to do that! but what u say is true and i hope verybody reads your message with lot's of care! i've been having long converstaions bout that with yasmine() and (:kattie both very diffrent girls and other opinions! they know i would never let my life be taken over by someone else.. but i do like to dream and i can understand that for some poeple dreams can become too much of a reality and when it ends it becomes hard... yasmine is gonna go frustrated with me saying this but: 'every person is diffrent and every one has another way in dealing with things....and some poeple need more time than others!' and i respect that time...
i'm just glad that some things are out now coz u know i think that sometimes the best way to move on and go to another dillema(coz that's how life is)is to just end a discussion, close them and go to another chapter! like u did with the threads! after a while no one will care anymore...
i'm already was an LLL user ...and i'm liking it...
Okay that's what was on my mind..hope it makes sense coz i just said what was on my mind and i don't have much i have a cold and it's making some braincells go stupid!
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