Tour Ending Finales - Page 5 - TennisForum.com
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post #61 of 90 (permalink) Old Jan 5th, 2004, 05:18 PM
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Thanks very much, Robert - very interesting indeed.

I'd like to know what EGC's ranking was in March 83 at the moment the entry was fixed. She was unseeded at the FC Cup (4 April '83) and #13 at Amelia Island (April 11 '83) acc to the ITF database and tennis corner, so was not far off the top 16.

At Boston, in the week before the championships, the seedings were:
1: ? 2: Austin 3: Turnbull 4: Hanika 5: King 6: Potter 7:? 8: Fairbank

At the FC Cup:

1: Navratilova 2: Jaeger 3: Austin 4: Bunge 5: Mandlikova 6: Hanika
7: Potter 8: Ruzici 9: Garrison 10:? 11: ? 12: Temesvari 13: Fairbank
14: Kohde-Kilsch. Gadusek played but is not given is seed - 10 or 11?.

and at Amelia Island
1: Evert 2: ? 3: Bunge 4: Mandlikova 5: Hanika 6: Ruzici 7: Garrison 8: ? 9: ? 10: ? 11: Fairbank 12: Kohde-Kilsch 13: Goolagong 14: ?
?2 Rinaldi

Given Robert's information that the other players at the Slims: (Evert, Navratilova, Jaeger, Austin, Shriver, Bunge, Mandlikova, Turnbull, Hanika, King, Potter, Ruzici, Garrison, Gadusek and Rinaldi) were the top 15, then Goolagong must have been in the group just behind with Temesvari, Fairbank, and Kohde-Kilsch.

What a great line-up of personalities and styles for a championships!

While on the subject of out-of-the-ordinary championships, what's the deal with Houston 1971? Some publications list it as the first tour champs, some don't. I know it happened before the end of the series so maybe it was just a title for a regular event and entry was not based on points/performance. Can anyone shed any light?

Last edited by Andy T; Jan 6th, 2004 at 09:36 AM.
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post #62 of 90 (permalink) Old Jan 6th, 2004, 11:11 AM
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That has always confused me as well (that some list it, some don't). Just a guess: They didn't have a ranking system that year so it was more or less a normal tournament ?
In all statistics I found most of the times Houston 71 is not listed, but Rollo listed it, so I guess it is part of the Championships history.
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post #63 of 90 (permalink) Old Jan 6th, 2004, 04:18 PM Thread Starter
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There were certainly no points involved in Houston-but the same thing could be said about 1972 and 1973. When Chris Evert won in 1973 she had spent most of the year playing on the opposing USTA tour.

Points would have been pointless (ha ha anyway since the fields were so big. Why it was considered the tour championships I'm not sure of. Perhaps it was symbolic, as the first Slims event ever was in 1970 at Houston.

Another event that could be listed was in 1976 Colgate Inaugeral. It kicked off Colgate's sponsorship of the first world womens tour, badly needed after the Slims tour cut back its events in 1975.
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post #64 of 90 (permalink) Old Jan 6th, 2004, 05:22 PM
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I tend to accept the "official" version that the 72 and 73 slims champs were season-ending, but the 71 Slims and 76 Colgate Inaugural Champs were just regular tournaments.

However, it does make better sense to say all 4 were regular tournaments and the first series-ending (as opposed to season-ending) championships was in fact the LA one of 74. In that case, the 83 one would be excluded, too. What a mess!

The other thing that has always irritated me is the two Aussie Opens in 77 thing. I wish (though know this would never happen) they'd "revise" it and make the 77 dec champs 78, and so on through to 85 becoming 86. This would, of course, make Navratilova a regular Grand Slam winner because her Aussie win in december 83 (29/11-12/9) would be counted as the Aussie Open for 1984. She won all 4 in the SAME ORDER as Connolly, Court and Graf, Budge and Laver and it just seems so silly that her achievement is not considered/counted as equal because the first tournament took place a couple of weeks early. The 02-03 "Serena Slam" and Steffi's 93-94 four-in-a-row, would not be affected by this change.

I know I could be accused of plugging Nav 'cos she's my favourite, but even at the time, I never considered that Martina's four-in-a-row Wimbledon 83-RG '84 should have been trumpeted as a Grand Slam.
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post #65 of 90 (permalink) Old Jan 7th, 2004, 06:58 AM
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"Grand Slam" is just a word IMO, Andy. For years there has been a better entry list at the Championships than at the AO or FO, and it definetely was a greater achievement to win 3 GSs plus the Championships than the 4 GSs in one year.

Anyway, I once read a statistic which even excluded the 1983 Championships, but that's going a bit far. After all it was called Championships back then and everybody was aware that this was not just an exhibition in Madison Square Garden.
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post #66 of 90 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 2004, 06:57 PM
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Another good point Andy T. I like the way you think. Why should a paltry 3 weeks decide the difference between a grand slam? Martina won those titles in the same order as all the other so-called Grand Slam champs. We need to include her name in that list as well.
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post #67 of 90 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 2004, 07:12 PM Thread Starter
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Andy-I didn't realize until you pointed it out that the 1971 is excluded from most lists-It was included in Tingay's Guiness book in 1982. I'll add in the note that it's not counted in many(or even most) quarters.

I can't agree with you about Martina in 83/84 though. Why? Because had Martina's 83 win "counted" then she would be playing for THE Grand Slam at the 84 US Open-the same 84 US Open I might add where Chris stretched her big time to 3 sets. The mental change in Martina, Chris, and the crowd COULD have produced a different result.
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post #68 of 90 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 2004, 09:20 PM
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Good point, Rollo. I wasn't even thinking about the pressure factor. Nobody was talking about a Grand Slam for Martina at the 84 US Open. That certainly has to be considered. Hmmm. I wonder if Chrissie would have pulled that match out if all the GS talk/pressure was on.
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post #69 of 90 (permalink) Old Jan 10th, 2004, 04:36 PM
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It looks like my post got lost so here's another try.

Completely agree with you Rollo, that even if the same feat was achieved in terms of winning tennis matches in a given sequence, the psychological conditions were not the same and had they been, who knows what have happened. We'll never know and we have two conflicting indications:

At that time, all the talk was of a modern grand slam, as many were saying it was impossible for the traditional Grand Slam to be achieved by modern players. There was the ITF (i.e. the sport's official governing body) bonus of $1m out for any player who could win a "grand slam" of four in a row, giving legitimacy to the whole thing. Navratilova duly completed the feat, in what was for me the greatest title winning performance of her career, on her least favourite surface against her main contemporary adversary, herself one of the all-time top ten.

As I said, I was one of those who felt the slam should be in one season, as it had always been but the reality was that in June 1984, the tennis establishment was saying otherwise.

As the debate raged on and the traditional idea of a grand slam was defended, Navratilova, having thought she had achieved it, was told she hadn't. In Australia that year, after an entire season (traditional slams can be achieved in 9 months), having played 79 matches and won 78 and on a 74-match win-streak, she lost in the sf to Sukova (from 61 36 54, and saving 5 mps). With the psychological let-down of RG 84, and the added physical and mental tiredness of three extra months of tennis, I think it is fair to say that the psychological and physical conditions Martina was playing under in December 1984 were tougher than those faced by the other slam winners in September 38,53 62,69,70 and 88. What that means is that her achievement would have been greater had she pulled it off, IMO, but it also means that the Australian Open of 1984 is not necessarily an indictator of what would have happened at Flushing Meadows.

Anyway, the RG result suggests she could have done it in New York (also, she did win there after all, and against the same adversary as in Paris), and the Kooyong defeat suggests she may not have, though there are reasons against reading that as an identical situation to the one she would have been facing if that match against Chrissie at Flushing Meadow had been recognised as the last hurdle to the Grand Slam. I just feel sorry, I guess, that her achievement is "overlooked" (don't forget that she also held all 4 women's doubles titles too).
Grr, whinge, grrr, whine, grrr ;-)

ps: sorry - I realise this discussion is off-point in this thread

Last edited by Andy T; Jan 12th, 2004 at 02:56 PM.
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post #70 of 90 (permalink) Old Mar 6th, 2004, 09:12 AM Thread Starter
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Bump up


Dougie reminded me I still need to add some of those tough doubles scores.
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post #71 of 90 (permalink) Old Mar 8th, 2004, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy T
Great Project Guys!
Don't know if any of this info is interesting or not:

1974 Slims: RICHEY and MELVILLE withdrew ill, MOROZOVA injured and back in Russia
1975 Slims COURT & HUNT qualified but did not play.
1978 Colgate GOOLAGONG-CAWLEY qualified but did not play (injured)
1980 Avon FROMHOLTZ qualified but did not play
1982 Avon JAEGER qualified but didn't play
1986 November Slims EVERT qualified but didn't play
1988 November Slims REHE qualified but DNP
1989 November Slims EVERT qualified but DNP
1990 November Slims NAVRATILOVA qualified but DNP
In 1982 Austin qualified and DNP. A waitress pour hot water over Austin's arm just the week prior to the Championships.
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post #72 of 90 (permalink) Old May 20th, 2004, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
1996


Doubles


1st Round
Novotna/Sanchez-Vicario(1) d. Hingis/Sukova 6-4 3-6 7-5
McGrath/Neiland(4) d. Basuki/Vis 6-4 6-7(4) 6-4
Davenport/MJ.Fernandez(3) d. Raymond/Stubbs 6-2 6-2
G.Fernandez/Zvereva(2) d. Smylie/Wild 6-1 6-2

Semis
Novotna/Sanchez-Vicario(1) d. McGrath/Neiland(4) 6-2 6-2
Davenport/MJ.Fernandez(3) d. G.Fernandez/Zvereva(2) 7-6(3) 6-3

Final
Davenport/MJ.Fernandez(3) d. Novotna/Sanchez-Vicario(1) 6-3 6-2
---------------------------------
Attendance was 80,171. 15,296 saw the final.

SINGLES

Round 1
S. Graf (1) d. K. Habsudova 6-1, 6-4
L. Davenport (8) d. B. Paulus 6-3, 6-2

A. Sanchez-Vicario (3) d. B. Schultz-McCarthy 6-4, 7-6
J. Novotna (5) d. A. Coetzer 6-4, 6-1

I. Majoli d. A. Huber (6) 7-5, 6-2
C. Martinez (4) d. J. Wiesner 6-1, 3-6, 6-4

M. Hingis (7) d. I. Spirlea 6-2, 6-1
K. Date d. M. Seles (2) 5-4 retired

Quarterfinal
Graf (1) d. Davenport (8) 6-4, 7-6
Novotna (5) d. Sanchez-Vicario (3) 6-0, 6-3

Majoli d. Martinez (4) 7-6, 7-6
Hingis (7) d. Date 6-1, 6-2

Semifinal
Graf (1) d. Novotna (5) 4-6, 6-4, 6-3
Hingis (7) d. Majoli 6-2, 4-6, 6-1

Final
Graf (1) d. Hingis (7) 6-3, 4-6, 6-0, 4-6, 6-0

Best left-right combination by a German (and that includes Max Schmeling): Steffi Graf. All she did in 1987 was knock Navratilova out of #1 and try to knock Evert out of the sport. (Mike Lupica in "The Best and Worst of Tennis in 1987", World Tennis)

"A couple of years ago, we nicknamed Steffi Graf's forehand 'Jaws'. And that music would go perfectly when she starts running in to the net, swarming on that little ball." (JoAnne Russell, during the 1988 Wimbledon final between Graf and Navratilova)
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post #73 of 90 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 2004, 02:00 PM Thread Starter
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Bump
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post #74 of 90 (permalink) Old Mar 31st, 2005, 10:32 PM Thread Starter
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Bump so people will know it's here
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post #75 of 90 (permalink) Old Apr 5th, 2005, 05:23 PM
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I have really enjoyed reading / looking at all these results for the year end championships. Way to go Rollo

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