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Old Jan 21st, 2012, 04:23 PM   #2131
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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Originally Posted by tennisvideos View Post
Perhaps we were being a bit unfair. In my post I never said she didn't have a brain, I just said that she wore many of her opponents down rather than used tactics per se. Chris Evert used her brain and tactics to get the opposition running all over the shop and caught out of position. Arantxa was usually the one doing the running and did more often keep on going like the Eveready Battery and wore many opponents out with her retrieving skills. She did have a brain, but she didn't dictate play like chess mistress Evert did.
Very well said. I don't want to be detrimental to Arantxa, but when you see her running like a rabbit all over the court, she doesn't look like the smart player, but the one who has to work excruciatingly hard to win the point; yet take a closer look and you'll see how her all of her shots are meant for something, they're are not brainless. But Evert looks brighter as she used her game to make her rival be on the run or trying to escape her tricks.
BTW, while ASV was too much of a counterpuncher for me, it's funny how different our perspectives are re how American and Spanish or Latin Americans see tennis. Americans mostly like aggressive players, and when someone plays constructing points rather than smacking the ball all the time, he or she is pretty easily labelled as a puncher, but we are more used to that kind of game as we learn how to play mostly on clay, and that's the best-suited game for those courts. So we are used to top spin, and maneuvering, and slices and setting up the ball for a big shot or force an error from the opponent. While American tennis is a more aggressive and just a couple of shots and try a big or a winner tennis, which is rewarded on hard courts, so some American players seem just a big serve and go for a big shot no matter what to other fans. What do you think of this?
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Old Jan 21st, 2012, 06:47 PM   #2132
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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I tried, but I just can't ignore it- "runner-around forehand which was just as good as Steffi's" What are you smoking? I'll give her very great props for being able to turn tedious and boring defensive counter-punching into a surprisingly aggressive shot- and she usually surprised her opponent as well as a gasping crowd not expecting pace from her. Arantxa's footwork was nothing short of outstanding, as was her overhead. She wasn't a total pusher, but she was a pure-bred retriever.
No run-around shot is good a Steffi. What I meant was that it was balanced and well-stroked like hers but definitely without the power. More like Kerry Melville.
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Old Jan 21st, 2012, 07:13 PM   #2133
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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Very well said. I don't want to be detrimental to Arantxa, but when you see her running like a rabbit all over the court, she doesn't look like the smart player, but the one who has to work excruciatingly hard to win the point
this is a good point ~ mary carillo (the now much-maligned) has said "chris evert is the most economical player in history, exerting the least effort for the greatest effect" whereas Arantxa goes the opposite route, more of an 'assistant from devil wears prada' approach, fetching everything in sight. But people who deeply appreciate displays of athleticism would appreciate that, I think.
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Old Jan 21st, 2012, 07:35 PM   #2134
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

What made Chris great was her preset approach before a serve or a return. She controlled tempo, analyzed the opponent, and made decisions as well adjustments before the start. Lot of players get paralyzed with that or get over anxious. She was the best at that and still is.
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Old Jan 22nd, 2012, 07:20 PM   #2135
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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Originally Posted by daze11 View Post
this is a good point ~ mary carillo (the now much-maligned) has said "chris evert is the most economical player in history, exerting the least effort for the greatest effect" whereas Arantxa goes the opposite route, more of an 'assistant from devil wears prada' approach, fetching everything in sight. But people who deeply appreciate displays of athleticism would appreciate that, I think.
Agree with everything you said, except the part about Mary Carillo, the now much maligned. (Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if they are opining or trying to malign Mary Cariilo I just think Mary is great, but that's another thread)

But yes, Chris Evert was the most economical player ever. She was deceptively great at controlling so many points. And a master of disguise even when she wasn't. Sure Evonne on her good days, Martina, and then Steffi could control matches and push Chrissie around. But they had to be deliberate and thoughtful to do that. Evert had amazing anticipation. I think she is one of the greatest student's of the game. While never the fastest player, Chris never looked slow, or even out of sorts. She had the ability to know what she had to do to win a point. And as she once famously said, "I'll never fall down for a point."

It's been nearly a quarter of a century since she retired. And 40+ years since she appeared on tour. And yet there has never been a more refined, better version of Chris. I know it's all about power today. But I still don't think there has been a player who has struck the ball so securely, so cleanly, and so accurately, on such a consistent basis, as Chris Evert. All those Chrissie clones, and none measure up to the original!
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Old Jan 22nd, 2012, 09:01 PM   #2136
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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Originally Posted by DennisFitz View Post
Agree with everything you said, except the part about Mary Carillo, the now much maligned. (Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if they are opining or trying to malign Mary Cariilo I just think Mary is great, but that's another thread)

But yes, Chris Evert was the most economical player ever. She was deceptively great at controlling so many points. And a master of disguise even when she wasn't. Sure Evonne on her good days, Martina, and then Steffi could control matches and push Chrissie around. But they had to be deliberate and thoughtful to do that. Evert had amazing anticipation. I think she is one of the greatest student's of the game. While never the fastest player, Chris never looked slow, or even out of sorts. She had the ability to know what she had to do to win a point. And as she once famously said, "I'll never fall down for a point."

It's been nearly a quarter of a century since she retired. And 40+ years since she appeared on tour. And yet there has never been a more refined, better version of Chris. I know it's all about power today. But I still don't think there has been a player who has struck the ball so securely, so cleanly, and so accurately, on such a consistent basis, as Chris Evert. All those Chrissie clones, and none measure up to the original!
The preset was the key to her game.
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Old Jan 23rd, 2012, 10:00 AM   #2137
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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The difference between other pushers and Arantxa was that she could change the tempo of a rally with a flat shot and her runner-around forehand which was just as good as Steffi's but she didn't get winners. However, she forced errors and she was so quick on her feet, she can get away with being out of position on shots.
I'm sorry, but this makes no sense at all. The forehand was Sanchez Vicario's weaker shot and Graf frequently played to ASV's forehand because Arantxa's backhand was more lethal. ASV did not run around her backhand to hit a forehand because the latter was a loopier, more error-prone shot.
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Old Jan 23rd, 2012, 11:26 AM   #2138
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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I'm sorry, but this makes no sense at all. The forehand was Sanchez Vicario's weaker shot and Graf frequently played to ASV's forehand because Arantxa's backhand was more lethal. ASV did not run around her backhand to hit a forehand because the latter was a loopier, more error-prone shot.
I remember Arantxa hated to play (or I should say lose to) Martina, and she even commented after a loss "she plays like a man". Navratilova would systematically pick apart the Sanchez Vicario forehand, which Arantxa nearly always hit, as you say, "loopier" topspin crosscourt shots which Martina ate for lunch with her outstanding backhand volley. The ball always went to the same spot crosscourt. In fact, it used to frustrate me because Steffi knew it was going there, and oftentimes still didn't cover it, Graf had a very good volley, but just never liked being at the net. A shame, really. Even Chris was more comfortable up there.
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Old Jan 23rd, 2012, 04:24 PM   #2139
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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Originally Posted by DennisFitz View Post
Agree with everything you said, except the part about Mary Carillo, the now much maligned. (Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if they are opining or trying to malign Mary Cariilo I just think Mary is great, but that's another thread)
i like mary, i just mean that she regularly receives a lot of haters, whereas everyone used to love her back in the day. (Before she started commentating alongside john mcenroe, who did somewhat change her style in leaning less toward the poetic & more toward the ego-driven)
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Old Jan 23rd, 2012, 07:08 PM   #2140
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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Originally Posted by alfajeffster View Post
I remember Arantxa hated to play (or I should say lose to) Martina, and she even commented after a loss "she plays like a man". Navratilova would systematically pick apart the Sanchez Vicario forehand, which Arantxa nearly always hit, as you say, "loopier" topspin crosscourt shots which Martina ate for lunch with her outstanding backhand volley. The ball always went to the same spot crosscourt. In fact, it used to frustrate me because Steffi knew it was going there, and oftentimes still didn't cover it, Graf had a very good volley, but just never liked being at the net. A shame, really. Even Chris was more comfortable up there.
It's true about Steffi. I remember the famous game in the 3rd set of 1995 Wimbledon final, it went so long because Steffi kept attacking ASV's forehand and Arantxa hit it cross court all the time and Steffi STILL wouldn't cover that side! You could tell it was going there and wanted to shout at her: Cover your forehand volley Steffi!
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Old Jan 26th, 2012, 10:19 PM   #2141
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

Daze, or any Evert-fanatics!

Did Evert play a night match during AO 88?
Just courios because I heard that she didn't like playing under the lights.
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Old Jan 26th, 2012, 11:21 PM   #2142
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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Daze, or any Evert-fanatics!

Did Evert play a night match during AO 88?
The final for a start...
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Old Jan 27th, 2012, 08:57 AM   #2143
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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The final for a start...
That wasn't a night match. The roof was closed at 2-1 in the first set because it started to rain.
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"A couple of years ago, we nicknamed Steffi Graf's forehand 'Jaws'. And that music would go perfectly when she starts running in to the net, swarming on that little ball." (JoAnne Russell, during the 1988 Wimbledon final between Graf and Navratilova)
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Old Jan 27th, 2012, 11:07 AM   #2144
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

Yeah, that wasn't a night match, and the doubles final was also under closed roof, but that was scheduled to day.
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Old Jan 27th, 2012, 02:31 PM   #2145
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

I suspect LightWarrior is speaking slightly tongue in cheek...........

The lights certainly did go out for Evert as the roof (sky) closed on her attempts to win one last Grand Slam......
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