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Old Jan 18th, 2012, 12:03 PM   #2116
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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Originally Posted by tennisvideos View Post
Yes ASV used to suck the life out of matches and opponents. I will never forget the 98 French Final when she managed to wear down the far more talented (more far less fit) Monica Seles in what should have been a fairytale finish to her career (not long after her father passed away). Unlike Evert, who had one of the greatest brains in tennis history, ASV was indeed a pusher that wore down opponents rather than beat them with clever tennis.
Hear hear! I could never stand watching her play- especially against people who liked to take a crack at the ball. Come to think of it, I didn't enjoy watching her play against fellow pushers with topspin (Martinez, Sabatini). I thoroughly enjoyed watching Steffi destroy her in the Australian Open final, and even more so later in the year when she totally destroyed her in the San Diego final. Remember that one, where Arantxa remarked after the drubbing to Steffi "I don't think she likes me", bringing the house down. I wanted to shout through the screen "she just thinks your game is annoying"!

On a much lower level, I had a regular opponent at tournaments in the 90s who was a total pusher- ate all my pace and just waited for me to make an error, which I eventually donated on any given point. He hit high loopy shots and ran down balls all day long. Finally (in our last match against each other), I decided I'd had enough and just hit the same loopy no pace shots against him. I won convincingly in straight sets, and it felt so good when it was happening, at one point I actually said out loud "create your own pace". He fumed off the court and we never played again. I must also say he was one of the worst opponents with bad line calls. I actually think he did it primarily when I was getting the better of him, and I wasn't alone, he had this reputation with many players who had the joy of playing him.
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Old Jan 18th, 2012, 10:44 PM   #2117
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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Remember that one, where Arantxa remarked after the drubbing to Steffi "I don't think she likes me", bringing the house down. I wanted to shout through the screen "she just thinks your game is annoying"!
I have no soft spot for sanchez vicario, as i felt we only needed ONE manuela maleeva, but I can appreciate the torture chamber she could occasionally inflict on a player like graf who is always running around their shots to "let loose the canons!" as their main victory card. how frustrating for that ball to just KEEP coming back... do it AGAIN, do it AGAIN... AHAHAHAAA!!!! I imagine Vicario's 8 wins went something like that.
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Old Jan 19th, 2012, 02:32 AM   #2118
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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Originally Posted by tennisvideos View Post
Yes ASV used to suck the life out of matches and opponents. I will never forget the 98 French Final when she managed to wear down the far more talented (more far less fit) Monica Seles in what should have been a fairytale finish to her career (not long after her father passed away). Unlike Evert, who had one of the greatest brains in tennis history, ASV was indeed a pusher that wore down opponents rather than beat them with clever tennis.
Well, I never warmed up either to ASV's tennis, I deeply admired her will to win and her never say die attitude though; and it's true that even if she improved her volleying skills and used the court more along her career, her basic game was to kill the opponnent's game and mostly take the fun and the fierceness and the brilliance out. I'll never forget a tennis commentator say that some other top players, Graf for instance, beat you with their game, while ASV didn't beat you, she just made you lose or beat yourself.
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Old Jan 19th, 2012, 02:47 AM   #2119
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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Hear hear! I could never stand watching her play- especially against people who liked to take a crack at the ball. Come to think of it, I didn't enjoy watching her play against fellow pushers with topspin (Martinez, Sabatini). I thoroughly enjoyed watching Steffi destroy her in the Australian Open final, and even more so later in the year when she totally destroyed her in the San Diego final. Remember that one, where Arantxa remarked after the drubbing to Steffi "I don't think she likes me", bringing the house down. I wanted to shout through the screen "she just thinks your game is annoying"!

On a much lower level, I had a regular opponent at tournaments in the 90s who was a total pusher- ate all my pace and just waited for me to make an error, which I eventually donated on any given point. He hit high loopy shots and ran down balls all day long. Finally (in our last match against each other), I decided I'd had enough and just hit the same loopy no pace shots against him. I won convincingly in straight sets, and it felt so good when it was happening, at one point I actually said out loud "create your own pace". He fumed off the court and we never played again. I must also say he was one of the worst opponents with bad line calls. I actually think he did it primarily when I was getting the better of him, and I wasn't alone, he had this reputation with many players who had the joy of playing him.
Well Alfa my pal, how come you're including Gabriela among the Arantxa's and Conchita's of the world????
Well, Gabriela on a bad day made me lose my mind playing too safe tennis, it's true, but her game was not just push the ball; she didn't kill you with pace either. Her strength was precisely her ability to use different pace and placement and effects; it's true that in her first years she sometimes used top spin too often, but her game became complete over the years, using more volleys and hitting with more power and a more aggressive attitude, so you can see she just didn't push the ball as ASV, she hit different shots and made you hit a lot of different paces and effects to get you out of balance to force an error or a short ball she could take advantage of.
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Old Jan 19th, 2012, 09:39 AM   #2120
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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Well Alfa my pal, how come you're including Gabriela among the Arantxa's and Conchita's of the world????
Well, Gabriela on a bad day made me lose my mind playing too safe tennis, it's true, but her game was not just push the ball; she didn't kill you with pace either. Her strength was precisely her ability to use different pace and placement and effects; it's true that in her first years she sometimes used top spin too often, but her game became complete over the years, using more volleys and hitting with more power and a more aggressive attitude, so you can see she just didn't push the ball as ASV, she hit different shots and made you hit a lot of different paces and effects to get you out of balance to force an error or a short ball she could take advantage of.
I agree with you, she wasn't just a pusher, but when she played Arantxa, she reverted to playing that way- 20 ft behind the baseline and just seeing who would miss first, and hitting all these shots off he back foot. She was so much more talented than that, but I guess Arantxa got into her head when they played. Their matches were even like this on hardcourts!
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Old Jan 19th, 2012, 12:26 PM   #2121
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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Originally Posted by alfajeffster View Post
On a much lower level, I had a regular opponent at tournaments in the 90s who was a total pusher- ate all my pace and just waited for me to make an error, which I eventually donated on any given point. He hit high loopy shots and ran down balls all day long. Finally (in our last match against each other), I decided I'd had enough and just hit the same loopy no pace shots against him. I won convincingly in straight sets, and it felt so good when it was happening, at one point I actually said out loud "create your own pace". He fumed off the court and we never played again. I must also say he was one of the worst opponents with bad line calls. I actually think he did it primarily when I was getting the better of him, and I wasn't alone, he had this reputation with many players who had the joy of playing him.
What a joy that last match must have been (well the result anyway)! And it's true - it's easier to beat a pusher by giving them no pace at all. If you try to beat them with pace they thrive on it and usually win on errors. But give them junk and they can't stand it - I love it!
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Old Jan 20th, 2012, 01:43 AM   #2122
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

You guys are being ridiculously unfair to Arantxa. There wasn't a shot she couldn't hit. Granted, her forehand was at times ugly and at best acceptable, but to call Arantxa completely one dimensional is a joke. No she didn't have the shots that Graf or Seles had, but she was way more dimensional than the vast majority of today's tour.

And to whoever implied that Arantxa didn't have a brain and just pushed the ball back? That is slander. One Arantxa was not a pusher, definitely not in the prime of her career anyways. But more importantly, Arantxa was a brilliant tactician and had an amazing tennis IQ. She anticipated like no other and was able to figure out what she needed to do when she needed to do it to beat certain opponents.

Most consider her dropshot and lob as two of the best ever. She could smack her backhand quite well too. She got to more balls than other players, so she was down in points often, but kept herself in and hoped that her opponent would make an error. I hardy see how that should be considered a fault.

Despite my obvious like for ASV, I do remember being disappointed for Chris. Looking back she didn't deserve to go out that way, and while Arantxa proved herself in the future, she obviously wasn't in the same Cleague as hrissie That made it a frustrating ending at the tournament she was queen of.
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Old Jan 20th, 2012, 02:33 PM   #2123
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

I had to put this. Chris Evert on David Letterman. She is late.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDfgkR8NLuk
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Old Jan 20th, 2012, 03:11 PM   #2124
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

The difference between other pushers and Arantxa was that she could change the tempo of a rally with a flat shot and her runner-around forehand which was just as good as Steffi's but she didn't get winners. However, she forced errors and she was so quick on her feet, she can get away with being out of position on shots.
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Old Jan 20th, 2012, 06:31 PM   #2125
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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The difference between other pushers and Arantxa was that she could change the tempo of a rally with a flat shot and her runner-around forehand which was just as good as Steffi's but she didn't get winners. However, she forced errors and she was so quick on her feet, she can get away with being out of position on shots.
I tried, but I just can't ignore it- "runner-around forehand which was just as good as Steffi's" What are you smoking? I'll give her very great props for being able to turn tedious and boring defensive counter-punching into a surprisingly aggressive shot- and she usually surprised her opponent as well as a gasping crowd not expecting pace from her. Arantxa's footwork was nothing short of outstanding, as was her overhead. She wasn't a total pusher, but she was a pure-bred retriever.
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Old Jan 21st, 2012, 03:59 AM   #2126
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

Great to see this....tribute to Chris with Bud Collins..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V7BJMHaihY
Looking fabulous in this video...love the boots...!!!
She has been looking fabulous on ESPN in Australia too....on the first day she looked stunning...great outfit.....wish she would use her Twitter account again that was fun..!!!!

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Old Jan 21st, 2012, 09:26 AM   #2127
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZUGEqfiSms niiiice
can somebody put some videos f from this year asustralian? no way to see it here : (((
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Old Jan 21st, 2012, 10:19 AM   #2128
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

Chris Evert v Tracy Austin Wimbledon 1977

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0uoV...eature=related

Chris Evert appears to be wearing a bondage dress (!), while Tracy looks like she has escaped from the set of "A Little House on the Prairie"...
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Old Jan 21st, 2012, 12:28 PM   #2129
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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Originally Posted by Joseosu19 View Post
You guys are being ridiculously unfair to Arantxa. There wasn't a shot she couldn't hit. Granted, her forehand was at times ugly and at best acceptable, but to call Arantxa completely one dimensional is a joke. No she didn't have the shots that Graf or Seles had, but she was way more dimensional than the vast majority of today's tour.

And to whoever implied that Arantxa didn't have a brain and just pushed the ball back? That is slander. One Arantxa was not a pusher, definitely not in the prime of her career anyways. But more importantly, Arantxa was a brilliant tactician and had an amazing tennis IQ. She anticipated like no other and was able to figure out what she needed to do when she needed to do it to beat certain opponents.

Most consider her dropshot and lob as two of the best ever. She could smack her backhand quite well too. She got to more balls than other players, so she was down in points often, but kept herself in and hoped that her opponent would make an error. I hardy see how that should be considered a fault.

Despite my obvious like for ASV, I do remember being disappointed for Chris. Looking back she didn't deserve to go out that way, and while Arantxa proved herself in the future, she obviously wasn't in the same Cleague as hrissie That made it a frustrating ending at the tournament she was queen of.
Perhaps we were being a bit unfair. In my post I never said she didn't have a brain, I just said that she wore many of her opponents down rather than used tactics per se. Chris Evert used her brain and tactics to get the opposition running all over the shop and caught out of position. Arantxa was usually the one doing the running and did more often keep on going like the Eveready Battery and wore many opponents out with her retrieving skills. She did have a brain, but she didn't dictate play like chess mistress Evert did.
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Old Jan 21st, 2012, 04:11 PM   #2130
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumarokov-Elston View Post
Chris Evert v Tracy Austin Wimbledon 1977

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0uoV...eature=related

Chris Evert appears to be wearing a bondage dress (!), while Tracy looks like she has escaped from the set of "A Little House on the Prairie"...
Really! Those outfits! Chris looks like she's having a late night party with a lover, and Tracy seems to be about to offer you some chocolate crisps cookies!
Also, I rarely saw Tracy play, and indeed how mechanical her groundstrokes look! Definitely not my cup of tea, and even if I was a kid back then and didn't live their rivalry, you can see what kind of character she apparently is
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