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Old Sep 14th, 2011, 07:21 PM   #2011
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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I can see what annoys you in this mountain of criticism if you like a player, yet I also believe it's kind of usual these days when everyone feels entitled to criticize everything. I added my voice to that in the sense that Caroline, with a lot of fantastic things on her favor that you eloquently mentioned, needs to add more to her game to be more respected, as it is a fact that when you are Nş1, so much more is expected from you compared to lesser players. And Caroline, for all her niceness, hasn't still shown the big tennis you expect from a Nş1 player especially in the biggest stages, and until that happens, she will have to endure a lot of criticism. But I'll be the first to be against bad-taste or mean criticism, I only accept the well-intentioned. In that prospect, Caroline has so far appeared somewhat poor in her skills against the very best players of the last years, so her Nş1 position doesn't earn her the respect you'd usually expect, and that will be until she gets some solid wins at the big stages against the likes of Serena, Venus or Clijsters for instance, making her a Nş1 player by her game and on the court and not just on the computer, no matter how big an achievement this is.
I know. But the problem is that there is no one around who is regarded by virtually everyone as the one who should be #1 instead of Caroline. Serena? Ok, but you can't put someone on top who hasn't played in nearly a year if the list is to reflect a 52 week period. Clijsters? Same story. Zvonareva? Like Caroline she hasn't won a major either. Sharapova? Very inconsistent and hasn't won a major in years. Li Na? Fab at the AO and FO but hasn't been able to hit a ball between the lines anywhere else. Kvitova? Going through a slump since Wimbledon....If any of them would top the rankings there would also be criticism. If anything, all things considered Wozniacki can make the best claim since her results are decent from Januari up to and including October whereas the others have only been able to play great for a few months (or weeks) before they got injured or went through a slump.
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Old Sep 14th, 2011, 08:11 PM   #2012
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

Yeah, I see your point and I totally agree with you about Caroline having the most legitimate shot fo the top position nowadays. But I do believe she is just reflecting the whole situation of current female tennis. I mean,if you have a list of course SOMEBODY must be at the Nş1, 2, 3 and so on OK?, but historically these top spots were taken by some tremendous players compared to whom the current ones suffer greatly re skills and talent. On the same line, SOMEONE must win the tournaments including the five majors since they are being held, but againg in older times you usually needed to be a really great player to win at least one, so most tennis fans older than 15 would demand the same level of excellence either to win a major as to be on the top spots of the rankings, as it used to be the case, and so most of the top player these days won't get that respect until they really prove it. Caroline gets the worst share as she is in the highest position, but most of the top players are in the same boat IMHO. Serena or Kim, or Maria are spared this as they have proved they are in the great players league, even if they probably would have won significantly less playing in another field (do you believe Justine Henin would have won so many Frenchs playing in the late 80s-early 90s bunch of great players on clay for instance?).
In other words, I think that me or many others are seeing the bigger picture, criticizing Caroline not for being Nş1 ,which she probably deserve considering her consistency in the current game, but regarding the historical status attached to the Nş 1 spot and its "requirements", which she has not still fulfilled, and some recent Nş 1s (Jankovic, Ivanovic, Safina) or even Nş 2 like Zvonareva equally have not.
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Old Sep 14th, 2011, 09:30 PM   #2013
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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Yeah, I see your point and I totally agree with you about Caroline having the most legitimate shot fo the top position nowadays. But I do believe she is just reflecting the whole situation of current female tennis. I mean,if you have a list of course SOMEBODY must be at the Nş1, 2, 3 and so on OK?, but historically these top spots were taken by some tremendous players compared to whom the current ones suffer greatly re skills and talent. On the same line, SOMEONE must win the tournaments including the five majors since they are being held, but againg in older times you usually needed to be a really great player to win at least one, so most tennis fans older than 15 would demand the same level of excellence either to win a major as to be on the top spots of the rankings, as it used to be the case, and so most of the top player these days won't get that respect until they really prove it. Caroline gets the worst share as she is in the highest position, but most of the top players are in the same boat IMHO. Serena or Kim, or Maria are spared this as they have proved they are in the great players league, even if they probably would have won significantly less playing in another field (do you believe Justine Henin would have won so many Frenchs playing in the late 80s-early 90s bunch of great players on clay for instance?).
In other words, I think that me or many others are seeing the bigger picture, criticizing Caroline not for being Nş1 ,which she probably deserve considering her consistency in the current game, but regarding the historical status attached to the Nş 1 spot and its "requirements", which she has not still fulfilled, and some recent Nş 1s (Jankovic, Ivanovic, Safina) or even Nş 2 like Zvonareva equally have not.
I agree with most of that. I just think it's unfair that Caroline gets 90% of the criticism while the critics could (not saying that they should though) just as easily ridicule all those others for a change. I mean, they almost sound as though Caroline has done something she should apologize for. As for how players like Serena or Justine would have done in the 80's or 90's - hard to say of course. I'd think that both would have been top players with slam titles. How many? No idea.

I don't think that todays field is THAT poor actually. All those top 10 - top 15 girls are good.....some of the time. In that regard we have a field of top players made up of Mandlikova types. This week great - next week poor.
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Old Sep 14th, 2011, 11:59 PM   #2014
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

Yeah, they are pretty unstable game-wise! I must say I found kind of amazing how Richard Williams spoke about Graf and Navratilova compared her daughter Serena, as I don't think he owes any lip-service to older players, and said that, with all her dimension as a player, Serena is not in Steffi's or Martina N's league. It's just his opinion, of course, but I think is from a significative character as the father of the best players of the last two decades probably.
I also believe that the very fact that many people still speak of the greatness of some of the past players and their talent and how they would fare in the current game (provided the same equipment, which I have no reason at all to believe that players as skillful as Graf or Sabatini or Evert would not master)is a testament of how good they were, and how the current game is not so evidently better as it would be expected considering how the level of any sport tends to improve in time. If today's tennis were so much undeniable better, something that could be impossible not to notice, nobody would still be praising the past champions so much I think.
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Old Sep 15th, 2011, 12:03 AM   #2015
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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: )))))
GREAT pic!
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Old Sep 15th, 2011, 11:07 PM   #2016
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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Who's that cute young man ? Is he one of her sons ?
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Old Sep 15th, 2011, 11:42 PM   #2017
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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Who's that cute young man ? Is he one of her sons ?
yes her oldest boy Alex.
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Old Sep 16th, 2011, 01:29 AM   #2018
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

Seemengly your sight can miss no one!
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Old Sep 18th, 2011, 12:23 AM   #2019
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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Yeah, they are pretty unstable game-wise! I must say I found kind of amazing how Richard Williams spoke about Graf and Navratilova compared her daughter Serena, as I don't think he owes any lip-service to older players, and said that, with all her dimension as a player, Serena is not in Steffi's or Martina N's league. It's just his opinion, of course, but I think is from a significative character as the father of the best players of the last two decades probably.
I also believe that the very fact that many people still speak of the greatness of some of the past players and their talent and how they would fare in the current game (provided the same equipment, which I have no reason at all to believe that players as skillful as Graf or Sabatini or Evert would not master)is a testament of how good they were, and how the current game is not so evidently better as it would be expected considering how the level of any sport tends to improve in time. If today's tennis were so much undeniable better, something that could be impossible not to notice, nobody would still be praising the past champions so much I think.
Skill wise the oldies were on average better while todays players are on average probably stronger and better athletes. But it's always dangerous to generalize of course. If forced to choose I prefer the oldies, but I nevertheless also get a kick out of watching the current crop. It ain't always pretty, but I still find it exciting. I took for example two weeks off from work to be able to watch the USO, so...
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Old Sep 18th, 2011, 01:57 AM   #2020
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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Skill wise the oldies were on average better while todays players are on average probably stronger and better athletes. But it's always dangerous to generalize of course. If forced to choose I prefer the oldies, but I nevertheless also get a kick out of watching the current crop. It ain't always pretty, but I still find it exciting. I took for example two weeks off from work to be able to watch the USO, so...
Wow you must really be a fan. I used to be able to do that in the 90s. I can't do it anymore. The only matches I can watch now are slam finals or those there I'm emotionally invested.

And I don't think it has anything to do with the quality of tennis or players. It's more my age. When I was young I was really able to watch tennis, I can't anymore. Of course, I can still play tennis all day, I won't get bored with it but I can't watch it anymore.

I can't watch any men's tennis anymore either. I don't think I've seen a men's match from beginning to end for years.

But I do like watching old tennis matches. Whatever I can find on Lenglen, Wills and Chris Evert matches.
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Old Sep 18th, 2011, 01:57 AM   #2021
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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: )))))
That's a great picture.
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Old Sep 18th, 2011, 03:36 AM   #2022
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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Skill wise the oldies were on average better while todays players are on average probably stronger and better athletes. But it's always dangerous to generalize of course. If forced to choose I prefer the oldies, but I nevertheless also get a kick out of watching the current crop. It ain't always pretty, but I still find it exciting. I took for example two weeks off from work to be able to watch the USO, so...
Wow, I'm glad you have that kind of passion, I used to have it back then, but nowadays I just can`t see a match and get bored in 5 minutes (with rare exceptions), and I quickly start to see all the technical limitations related to almost anything that it's not hit the ball hard... sorry but I just can't understand how a Nş 1 player can have NO slice, at least I saw Caroline not to hit a single slice shot while Serena was sweeping the ground with her. Some will say that a slice BH it's not mandatory, but it's just pure intelligence to try to come up with something different to try to make your rival feel a little uncomfortable considering she was just killing you with the game you had been playing... and the same and worse with a lot of other players, who really have NO PLAN other than to hit the ball hard, no matter if it goes to the moon!
Not all of the oldies were great, and probably they were not really good from the Nş30 player in the world down, but the good were were good and the best were really incredible. But maybe it's also I'm aging
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Old Sep 18th, 2011, 07:52 AM   #2023
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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Wow, I'm glad you have that kind of passion, I used to have it back then, but nowadays I just can`t see a match and get bored in 5 minutes (with rare exceptions), and I quickly start to see all the technical limitations related to almost anything that it's not hit the ball hard... sorry but I just can't understand how a Nş 1 player can have NO slice, at least I saw Caroline not to hit a single slice shot while Serena was sweeping the ground with her. Some will say that a slice BH it's not mandatory, but it's just pure intelligence to try to come up with something different to try to make your rival feel a little uncomfortable considering she was just killing you with the game you had been playing... and the same and worse with a lot of other players, who really have NO PLAN other than to hit the ball hard, no matter if it goes to the moon!
Yeah, but if you let the game be played with rackets that reward that type of play you musn't be surprised that nearly everyone plays like that. It's hard to be a touch player when the ball is constantly coming at you at a zillion miles an hour. But yes, ball bashing contests can be boring - especially if it's one of the 25 winners, 60 UE variety. And there are a lot of those. But if they are on, they find the lines and the UE count is low-ish it can also be exciting. Having said that, yesterday I watched the 1988 wimbledon final - Graf vs Navratilova - and I must say that I'd have that over Kvitova vs Sharapova anyday. But what can you do? It's a case of either accepting things the way they are or giving up on the game altogether and despite all of the negatives I still enjoy it too much to do that.

And I have no problem admitting that Caroline has a limited game with lots of weaknesses - I love that girl, but I'm not blind.
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Old Sep 18th, 2011, 08:04 AM   #2024
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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I can't watch any men's tennis anymore either. I don't think I've seen a men's match from beginning to end for years.

But I do like watching old tennis matches. Whatever I can find on Lenglen, Wills and Chris Evert matches.
I think men's tennis is in a really good place right now. Charismatic players, several all time greats competing against each other.....

Lenglen and Wills? I didn't even know that there was any footage out there from them (except for those 10 minutes or so of the match between them).
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Old Sep 18th, 2011, 09:02 AM   #2025
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Re: Chris Evert Thread

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There ought to be a "write a caption for this photo" contest.

Was Chrissie telling another one of her dirty jokes to Tracy?!
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