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Old Jun 17th, 2014, 10:50 AM   #16
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Re: USA - IRAN: Strange Bedfellows In Iraq... Sort Of...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pov View Post
IMO the Shiite militias are just as bad. Maybe worse since it's Shiite oppression that led to the current insurgency. Most of Iraq is Sunni.
It is difficult at times to know who is who, but you should try to get the basics right.
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Old Jun 17th, 2014, 10:56 AM   #17
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Re: USA - IRAN: Strange Bedfellows In Iraq... Sort Of...

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Originally Posted by A Magicman View Post

Bringing freedom and democracy to that region my ass. Terror and death is what removing Saddam brought and nothing else.
Like it wasn't there while Saddam was in power?

But I agree with you that freedom and democracy are not wanted there. As long as there are two religious groups that want to annihilate each other, neither will welcome freedom and democracy.
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Old Jun 17th, 2014, 01:44 PM   #18
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Re: USA - IRAN: Strange Bedfellows In Iraq... Sort Of...

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
Like it wasn't there while Saddam was in power?

But I agree with you that freedom and democracy are not wanted there. As long as there are two religious groups that want to annihilate each other, neither will welcome freedom and democracy.
Terror and death were there, of course, when Sadam was there, but what happened since then brought it to an absolutely new dimension.

I just hope that Jordan and Lebanon remain safe and untouched by those events.

But Iran talking to the US about solving that mess together should prove how serious it is.
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Old Jun 17th, 2014, 01:56 PM   #19
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Re: USA - IRAN: Strange Bedfellows In Iraq... Sort Of...

As Comrade ys wrote (in part) in NT on Dec. 3, 2005:

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Originally Posted by ys View Post

Make Saddam have a plastic surgery, declare him killed, give him new name, appoint him a new president of Iraq, kick out all liberal mass-media out of there and let him do whatever he wants to stabilize the country and help him in that with money and weapons. In two months time his army will be back. Al Qaeda corpses will be hanging all over the country, and the country will be stable again. Long-term, by doing that more lives will be saved than lost.
(Bolding added)
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Old Jun 17th, 2014, 03:05 PM   #20
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Re: USA - IRAN: Strange Bedfellows In Iraq... Sort Of...

Quote:
Originally Posted by *JR* View Post
As Comrade ys wrote (in part) in NT on Dec. 3, 2005:



(Bolding added)
while ys has an abrasive way of communicating it, he was right on that one... Saddam's removal did cause thousands of deaths and great instability to Iraq, which seems to be destined to partition... but could it all really be considered as a military blunder from the part of certain Western powers? so why would they do it again, this time in Syria, just a few short years later?

Iraq's violent demise is reasonably sad for most people and the left leaning Media in Europe and North America... and I say reasonably because, while most people do have sympathy for the suffering, hardly anyone would be willing to do anything more pro-active than shedding a tear or a thought for it... but most people tend to forget that Saddam's Iraq was one of the most powerful military Arab states, alongside Syria and Egypt, a power that could certainly be worrisome for the Western-allied countries of the region, monarchies and democracy alike... so who could really profit out of a weakened, possibly divided Iraq and Syria and a war-occupied Teheran?

Under that prism, it's not surprising that we know that Gulf petrodollars are running free in both Syria and Iraq, but what it wouldn't be surprising either is if the hands of Mossad/CIA and some others are also fomenting discontent and extending division as well...With Iraq and Syria (and less importantly, Libya) weakened by civil war and even split, Egypt and why not, Turkey, will probably understand the message and behave more accordingly... but it will be interesting to see if the House of Saud itself will be ruling in the short future, things do get out of hands in the Middle East... as for Israel, well, the present worsening situation couldn't be any better...
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Old Jun 17th, 2014, 03:51 PM   #21
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Re: USA - IRAN: Strange Bedfellows In Iraq... Sort Of...

Obama announces 275 US troops WILL be sent to Iraq

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ot-return.html

President Obama announced on Monday evening that US ground troops 'equipped for combat' are being sent to Iraq – just days after claiming that no American soldiers would be deployed to the war-torn country.

In a letter to Congress, the president said American troops will be returning to Iraq only three years after they left and their deployment began on Sunday.

Obama said that their only purpose will be to protect U.S. personnel and the embassy in Baghdad – and not to join in the fierce fighting raging outside the Iraqi capital.

The president did tell Congress, however, that American military personnel in Baghdad will be 'equipped for combat.'

The president did not give a deadline for the troops' exit, saying only that the 275 soldiers will remain in Iraq for as long as they are needed to protect U.S. interests.

About 160 troops are already in Iraq, including 50 Marines and more than 100 U.S. Army soldiers. Some of those soldiers have only recently arrived.

Under the authorization Obama outlined, a U.S. official says the U.S. will put an additional 100 soldiers in a nearby third country where they would be held in reserve until needed.

The White House says the U.S. military personnel are entering Iraq with its consent.
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Old Jun 17th, 2014, 06:05 PM   #22
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Re: USA - IRAN: Strange Bedfellows In Iraq... Sort Of...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wayitis View Post
Under that prism, it's not surprising that we know that Gulf petrodollars are running free in both Syria and Iraq, but what it wouldn't be surprising either is if the hands of Mossad/CIA and some others are also fomenting discontent and extending division as well...With Iraq and Syria (and less importantly, Libya) weakened by civil war and even split, Egypt and why not, Turkey, will probably understand the message and behave more accordingly... but it will be interesting to see if the House of Saud itself will be ruling in the short future, things do get out of hands in the Middle East... as for Israel, well, the present worsening situation couldn't be any better...

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Old Jun 18th, 2014, 01:05 PM   #23
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Re: USA - IRAN: Strange Bedfellows In Iraq... Sort Of...

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Originally Posted by Volcana View Post
[snip]

Fast forward to today.

Iran is called by many a threat to the USA, though how they could possibly be I have no idea. They certainly have been accused of being the source of money and arms to the resistance in Iraq, as they fought to drive the USA out. So now the USA is out, and SOME armed group is attacking the puppet government we installed in Iraq. And who are we turning to for help?

Rumors are, Iran.

Which leads one to ask, were the Iranians the problem in Iraq? Were they ever a threat to the USA?

... Certainly, the current situation does NOT lead one to conclude that Iran is a source of regional instability.



Iran never has been a source for regional instability. It has been a victim of right wing media and war profiteer lies.
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Old Jun 18th, 2014, 02:24 PM   #24
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Re: USA - IRAN: Strange Bedfellows In Iraq... Sort Of...

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
It is difficult at times to know who is who, but you should try to get the basics right.
Yeah. You may be onto something there.

So here you go:

IMO the Shiite militias are just as bad. Maybe worse since it's in large part Shiite oppression that has led to the current insurgency. Period.
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Old Jun 19th, 2014, 02:26 AM   #25
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Re: USA - IRAN: Strange Bedfellows In Iraq... Sort Of...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pov View Post

IMO the Shiite militias are just as bad. Maybe worse since it's in large part Shiite oppression that has led to the current insurgency. Period.
Shiites are better merely because their ambitions are contained within the country and they are not fixed on building some fucking caliphat or whatever it is called.
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Old Jun 19th, 2014, 01:49 PM   #26
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Re: USA - IRAN: Strange Bedfellows In Iraq... Sort Of...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wayitis;
Saddam's removal did cause thousands of deaths and great instability to Iraq, which seems to be destined to partition... but could it all really be considered as a military blunder from the part of certain Western powers? so why would they do it again, this time in Syria, just a few short years later?

Iraq's violent demise is reasonably sad for most people and the left leaning Media in Europe and North America... and I say reasonably because, while most people do have sympathy for the suffering, hardly anyone would be willing to do anything more pro-active than shedding a tear or a thought for it... but most people tend to forget that Saddam's Iraq was one of the most powerful military Arab states, alongside Syria and Egypt, a power that could certainly be worrisome for the Western-allied countries of the region, monarchies and democracy alike... so who could really profit out of a weakened, possibly divided Iraq and Syria and a war-occupied Teheran?

Under that prism, it's not surprising that we know that Gulf petrodollars are running free in both Syria and Iraq, but what it wouldn't be surprising either is if the hands of Mossad/CIA and some others are also fomenting discontent and extending division as well...With Iraq and Syria (and less importantly, Libya) weakened by civil war and even split, Egypt and why not, Turkey, will probably understand the message and behave more accordingly... but it will be interesting to see if the House of Saud itself will be ruling in the short future, things do get out of hands in the Middle East... as for Israel, well, the present worsening situation couldn't be any better...


~ instability ~

~ blunder ~

~ profit ~

~ left leaning ~

~Mossad/CIA/others ~



From the very beginning of the war people like myself said that Saddam's downfall was intended to cause instability in Iraq. That this destabilization would create chaos and more war which invariably creates more war profit. A blunder, indeed, but it was the right leaning media, its supporters on radio such as the Limbaughs, Becks, Breitbarts, and Republicans in Congress, who were too short sighted or delusional to understand the truth behind the Neocon conniving that spurred this treasonous war. People like me pointed to the Downing Street Memo whose revelations brought down the Tony Blair regime in Britain just like the Pentagon Papers pretty much ended right wing support for the war in Vietnam - but unlike Britain right wingers (and far too many liberals) ignored DSM's revelations.

Interestingly, right wing pundit Glenn Beck now says that liberals who opposed Bush's treasonous war were correct all along.

There is a solution to all these right wing created wars - simply impose a 100% excess profits tax on ALL war profits. This way there is no incentive for war profiteers to create more war. Anyone who wants a war will have to put on the combat boots and fight the war themselves. And I guarantee that this will NEVER happen as Neoconnivers and the like are seeking war profits but do not have the guts and character to fight on principle. Then, we will have peace.
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Old Jun 19th, 2014, 04:03 PM   #27
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Re: USA - IRAN: Strange Bedfellows In Iraq... Sort Of...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wta_zuperfann View Post
~
There is a solution to all these right wing created wars - simply impose a 100% excess profits tax on ALL war profits. This way there is no incentive for war profiteers to create more war. Anyone who wants a war will have to put on the combat boots and fight the war themselves. And I guarantee that this will NEVER happen as Neoconnivers and the like are seeking war profits but do not have the guts and character to fight on principle. Then, we will have peace.
You are totally correct! Right wingers are NEVER interested in the suffering of people. Their primary goal is to amass $$$$ by any means necessary, even on the backs of dead bodies.
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Old Jun 20th, 2014, 09:05 AM   #28
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Re: USA - IRAN: Strange Bedfellows In Iraq... Sort Of...

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You are totally correct! Right wingers are NEVER interested in the suffering of people. Their primary goal is to amass $$$$ by any means necessary, even on the backs of dead bodies.
Democrats first claimed Iraq had WMD and supported invading Iraq

http://newsninja2012.com/republicans...ere-forgotten/

“Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.”
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

“Hussein has … chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies.”
– Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

“There is no doubt that … Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies.”
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
– Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

“We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them.”
– Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

“We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country.”
– Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

“Iraq’s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power.”
– Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

“We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction.”
– Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

“The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons…”
– Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

“I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force — if necessary — to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security.”
– Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

“There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years … We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction.”
– Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

“He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do”
– Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

“In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members … It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons.”
– Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

“We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction.”
– Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

“Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime … He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation … And now he is miscalculating America’s response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction … So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real…”
– Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
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Old Jun 20th, 2014, 12:13 PM   #29
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Re: USA - IRAN: Strange Bedfellows In Iraq... Sort Of...

^ ALL of these were made BEFORE Hans Blix came out with his report which refuted those claims. I have mentioned that about a dozen times on this forum previously.
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Old Jun 24th, 2014, 12:36 AM   #30
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Re: USA - IRAN: Strange Bedfellows In Iraq... Sort Of...

I was reminded of something during an NPR interview the other.

Any of you remember the deck of cards of 52 Iraqi so-called 'bad guys'? Hussein was the Ace of Spades.

The question was, how many of the people in that deck of cards were Shia?

The answer, thirty-five. Hussein was no religious zealot. He was a simple, competent, paraoid Alpha male. He had the Sunnis oppress the Shia because it was the easiet way to control the country. He didn't CARE if people were Sunni or Shia. He cared if they were 'Hussein-ites' or not.

In US terms, think of him as Dick Cheney. Not a bigoted bone in his body. Or a moral compass. He'd do anything to further his own ends, and sleep just fine at night.
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