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Old Jun 4th, 2014, 11:25 AM   #16
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Re: Here we go again, w/the same old same old...

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Originally Posted by stromatolite View Post
Like I said, my issue is not with your complaints, which sound valid to me. It is at least valid IMO to publicly complain about these issues if you feel that you are getting a raw deal.

My only point was that the threads referenced by the OP were offensive in the extreme, not only in terms of the ugly remarks posted by the OP in those threads, but also in the only marginally less ugly insinuations that he was a "typical Serena fan". I don't think it helps your cause to drag those threads into the discussion.
I definately didn't agree with those posts where someone was acting as if they could get TO someone for various and negative reasons. The internet is a very scary place. I tell my nieces/nephews that all the time, and to be very careful where they post and to whom they share their informaton. Their parents monitor them, and so do I when I'm around them so I feel they'll be okay. Anyway, that person whose now banned and gone deserved what he/she bought on themselves. However, hopefully there can also be a good way for those of us who are Serena fans to celebrate her accomplishments when/if she achieves them.
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Old Jun 4th, 2014, 11:33 AM   #17
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Re: Here we go again, w/the same old same old...

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Originally Posted by I_CLAUDIA_1961 View Post
I definately didn't agree with those posts where someone was acting as if they could get TO someone for various and negative reasons. The internet is a very scary place. I tell my nieces/nephews that all the time, and to be very careful where they post and to whom they share their informaton. Their parents monitor them, and so do I when I'm around them so I feel they'll be okay. Anyway, that person whose now banned and gone deserved what he/she bought on themselves. However, hopefully there can also be a good way for those of us who are Serena fans to celebrate her accomplishments when/if she achieves them.
I hope so too

Btw, I think it's safe to drop the if. Even if Serena doesn't ever regain her peak form, she will be the most feared player on the tour for a couple more years at least I think.
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Old Jun 4th, 2014, 09:52 PM   #18
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Re: Here we go again, w/the same old same old...

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Originally Posted by stromatolite View Post
Sorry to hear that, but the question still remains what you hope to gain by dragging a psychopath's threads into the discussion.

Those threads contained a few very offensive posts along the lines of "typical Serena fan", which I would think would be reason in itself for you guys to be happy that the threads were closed. I don't always see eye to eye with you, but I would never for a fraction of a second make any connection between you and that weirdo.
Just returned to see this post, and was wondering whether the previous responses were adequate enough to answer your question(s)?

I certainly do not want to drag this contentious issue to the forefront more than it already has been.
Nothing would come of it if I did.
I have my own ideas on how to combat frequent offenders (which is where my beef lies), and have aired them enough.
However, I'm not a part of the leadership, and there are already adequate penalties that work IF applied.
All that needs to be done is for those penalties to be applied under a zero-tolerance rule.

Btw...not sure what was meant by your last point.
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Old Jun 5th, 2014, 12:09 AM   #19
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Re: Here we go again, w/the same old same old...

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Originally Posted by RVD View Post
Just returned to see this post, and was wondering whether the previous responses were adequate enough to answer your question(s)?

I certainly do not want to drag this contentious issue to the forefront more than it already has been.
Nothing would come of it if I did.
I have my own ideas on how to combat frequent offenders (which is where my beef lies), and have aired them enough.
However, I'm not a part of the leadership, and there are already adequate penalties that work IF applied.
All that needs to be done is for those penalties to be applied under a zero-tolerance rule.

Btw...not sure what was meant by your last point.
I didn't have any questions, just one point/suggestion: keep Renastar out of your efforts to illustrate the unfair treatment you feel Serena's fanbase is receiving from the mods. He is an extremely unsavory individual and deserves whatever treatment they have dished out to him. There must surely be examples of threads started by decent Serena fans that can can serve your purposes better.

My last point is simple: Several people commenting on Renastar's threads made the suggestion that he was a "typical Serena fan". The implication being that his behaviour is what one may expect from other Serena fans such as yourself. I found that offensive to Serena's fanbase as a whole, including you. Whatever beef I may have had with you in the past, you strike me as an essentially decent guy.
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Old Jun 5th, 2014, 04:11 PM   #20
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Re: Here we go again, w/the same old same old...

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Originally Posted by stromatolite View Post
I didn't have any questions, just one point/suggestion: keep Renastar out of your efforts to illustrate the unfair treatment you feel Serena's fanbase is receiving from the mods. He is an extremely unsavory individual and deserves whatever treatment they have dished out to him. There must surely be examples of threads started by decent Serena fans that can can serve your purposes better.
Let me state my case another way...

When well known Serena and/or Serena fan haters post a Serena results thread...along with disparaging and unnecessary, rude, or offensive thread title remarks, and there are also several other results threads started by non-Haters, the mods almost always selects the crude, rude, hater threads, with the offensive titles. WHY!? Maybe you also join us in inquiring of the leadership why they do this. Many Serena fans have already inquired. Even sent lengthy PMs.

I'm not familiar with Renastar. I'm not even sure what Renastar's offense was or whether he/she is even a true Serena fan. I know for a fact that there are psuedo-Serena fans on this board, and have had confrontations with some already. And just like the offensive Serena haters, I have most of them on IGNORE.
Look, there are many posters here who regularly breaks the rules, and who are allowed to constantly do so. Until all hell breaks loss and the leadership gets enough of the complaints, only then is action taken. WHY let it get that far when there are established zero-tolerance policies/rules... is my question!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by stromatolite View Post
My last point is simple: Several people commenting on Renastar's threads made the suggestion that he was a "typical Serena fan". The implication being that his behaviour is what one may expect from other Serena fans such as yourself. I found that offensive to Serena's fanbase as a whole, including you. Whatever beef I may have had with you in the past, you strike me as an essentially decent guy.
Thank you for the explanation. And I appreciate the logic and kind words. I honestly do.
Understand that there is a small, though unwarranted, war being waged between Serena haters and Serena fans that we Serena fans would like to see ended. This war (my own personal description) is y-e-a-r-s old. It is distracting, tiring, ridiculous, illogical, and unnecessary. It exponentially increases the length of a Serena threads to a ridiculous number of pages and is regularly allowed to persist by the leadership of this forum.
This is what infuriates me and my fellow Serena fans. And it isn't just the Serena fans who are tired of this. I'm sure that you'd also like to see the constant bickering ended. Am I right?

Like you, though I agree that we do not always agree on everything, I still read your posts and would never place a poster like yourself on ignore.
Hell, many of your posts make sense to me...is perceived from a different perspective.
You don't even come close to the definition of a troll, and neither do you post baited threads or replies, racist responses, regularly attack other posters, etc...
All I and other Serena fans are asking the leadership here to do is to simply abide by there own set of rules and policies and penalize the offenders.
Adhere to that publicized zero-tolerance declaration.
The leadership knows who these offending posters are because these posters are regularly pointed out through the "Report Post" option.
If I was banned because I reciprocated against two posters who constantly attacked and baited me in the past, then surely posters who regularly post offensively should be subject to the same penalties.
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Old Jun 6th, 2014, 12:34 AM   #21
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Re: Here we go again, w/the same old same old...

^Have you tried cataloguing the Serena result thread titles over a period of a couple of months? I understand that it's a little tedious, but since the alternate titles are still visible at the head of the early posts in each thread, it's doable. It would make your point quite forcefully I think.
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Old Jun 6th, 2014, 05:17 AM   #22
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Re: Here we go again, w/the same old same old...

Quote:
Originally Posted by stromatolite View Post
^Have you tried cataloguing the Serena result thread titles over a period of a couple of months? I understand that it's a little tedious, but since the alternate titles are still visible at the head of the early posts in each thread, it's doable. It would make your point quite forcefully I think.
Yes, I have. And for several years, until my HDD gave up the ghost.
Began again recently, but when I returned to college, it became to time consuming. Presently, I only do it randomly. But I seriously doubt presenting it to the leadership will result in anything. They have their own way of doing things and they keep themselves isolated.
Beyond all of that, why not simply adhere to the publicized policies and rules, and enforce what's already in place?
Maybe I'm missing something, but the logic and pragmatism would dictate taking the path of least resistance; which would be not altering the past methodology or waving when it comes to established friendships between poster and moderators/administrators.
I'm assuming that this is the reason many of the offending posters get away with murder sometimes, even when the abuse is obvious.
I suppose that the other logical reasons that offenders aren't immediately dealt with may be due to the maintenance of membership numbers and also a common denominator of favorites and moderators sharing the same offensive ideology as the haters. I just get the sense that much of the offensive posts aren't reported to the administrators, and the administrators thinking all is well, until many fans suddenly barrage them with complaints.
Additionally, I've noticed that for years the leadership treats Serena fans differently. It's highly likely that that they also do not appreciate her nor her fans. But so be it. I doubt most Serena fans care if they are liked or not anyway. Just apply the rules equally.
I certainly don't care whether I'm liked or not, but I do care about group discrimination. Something I and many Serena fans have recognized and discussed among each other over the years.
It's simply really..., if Serena fans are told to adhere to the policies and rules, then everyone else should be subject to the same.
No double standards.
Just apply the policies across the board.
Not doing so will only invite chaos and deep-seated animosity and resentment and ultimately, you'll have these ridiculous back-and-forth(s) between the fan bases (like we see today).

This current trend of hate & bait and selective banning and penalizing can be easily dealt with.
The solution really isn't that complicated, IMHO.
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Old Jun 7th, 2014, 06:14 AM   #23
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Re: Here we go again, w/the same old same old...

^Just out of curiosity, what was the result of your research? In what proportion of merged threads was the more trollish title retained?
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Old Jun 7th, 2014, 04:50 PM   #24
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Re: Here we go again, w/the same old same old...

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Originally Posted by stromatolite View Post
^Just out of curiosity, what was the result of your research? In what proportion of merged threads was the more trollish title retained?
I really couldn't provide you with an accurate account/data, since the data on that drive is no longer available, and not archived. I mean who would think to archive files of that nature?
I can only say with any degree of certainty that there was stark a disparity between Serena result threads and result thread of other winners/players.
Caroline Wozniacki result threads were running a close second to Serena's, in terms of being contentious and unnecessarily vitriolic, for a short period. That was quite a while ago, and the only other part of the data That I recall with clarity. But hers were primarily due to being #1 without a slam title, or being the ultimate pusher. Neither conclusions I personally condone or embrace. But as we've see with each and every tournament that Serena is involved in and wins, the extreme degree of hatred and malevolence is quite non-stop where Serena is concerned.

I think it makes sense for the leadership here to either take one position or the other.
Or...they could maybe even go with an extreme alternative---the creation of a thread dedicated to hating on and flaming players and posters.
The options would be as follows:
  1. Either allow posters to have at each other in results threads without threat of warnings or bans; or just plain enforce the established policies, whether the leadership likes a player or not.
  2. The only other option (as already stated above) would require the creation of a special thread or forum where posters are allowed to flame both players and posters to their heart's content. At least we would then have the option of not going into the 'Flame Forum', rather than seeing them in the normal threads and moderators doing nothing about it.
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Old Jun 8th, 2014, 05:48 AM   #25
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Re: Here we go again, w/the same old same old...

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Originally Posted by RVD View Post
I really couldn't provide you with an accurate account/data, since the data on that drive is no longer available, and not archived. I mean who would think to archive files of that nature?
I can only say with any degree of certainty that there was stark a disparity between Serena result threads and result thread of other winners/players.
Caroline Wozniacki result threads were running a close second to Serena's, in terms of being contentious and unnecessarily vitriolic, for a short period. That was quite a while ago, and the only other part of the data That I recall with clarity. But hers were primarily due to being #1 without a slam title, or being the ultimate pusher. Neither conclusions I personally condone or embrace. But as we've see with each and every tournament that Serena is involved in and wins, the extreme degree of hatred and malevolence is quite non-stop where Serena is concerned.

I think it makes sense for the leadership here to either take one position or the other.
Or...they could maybe even go with an extreme alternative---the creation of a thread dedicated to hating on and flaming players and posters.
The options would be as follows:
  1. Either allow posters to have at each other in results threads without threat of warnings or bans; or just plain enforce the established policies, whether the leadership likes a player or not.
  2. The only other option (as already stated above) would require the creation of a special thread or forum where posters are allowed to flame both players and posters to their heart's content. At least we would then have the option of not going into the 'Flame Forum', rather than seeing them in the normal threads and moderators doing nothing about it.
RVD, THANK YOU! Because I'm extremely tired of the worn out mantra that we should report posts and not reply to them (which is the only part of "zero-tolerance" that's strictly enforced), when reporting them winds up doing NOTHING other than getting Serena's victory threads CLOSED!!!

What exactly is it about "zero-tolerance" are they not understanding in the forehand?
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