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Old Feb 28th, 2014, 01:17 AM   #31
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Re: Does College prepare players to turn Pro?

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Originally Posted by tie_breaker View Post


I always wanted to do that...

BTW, that is so old news
It sort of is related. Both players went to college. One left early and the other didn't.
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Old Feb 28th, 2014, 04:50 AM   #32
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Re: Does College prepare players to turn Pro?

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Originally Posted by slickshoes510 View Post
It sort of is related. Both players went to college. One left early and the other didn't.
Sanchez, Lao, Gibbs, and Burdette...that's 2 Trojans (none left early) and 2 Cards (both left early), but no Bruins. Seems odd
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Old Feb 28th, 2014, 05:52 AM   #33
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Re: Does College prepare players to turn Pro?

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Originally Posted by tie_breaker View Post
Sanchez, Lao, Gibbs, and Burdette...that's 2 Trojans (none left early) and 2 Cards (both left early), but no Bruins. Seems odd
Robin will join them soon. I like her game a lot. She also has the serve to help elevate her game to the next level too. She just needs to find a good coach to help with the other parts of her game.
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Old Mar 16th, 2014, 05:30 AM   #34
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Re: Does College prepare players to turn Pro?

Having coaches on the court the entire college match seriously hurts college players with their development. Especially, considering some coaches are not very good.The best coaches do most of their coaching in practice, not during matches. In matches some coaches can become confusing and usually distracting to players. Especially when they are volunteering unsolicited information. ( Unless of course the coaching visit is requested by the player. It then can be very beneficial with the right information.)

Players need to be able to focus on their game and figure out whats happening with their opponents. Too often coaches do what I call "overcoaching" and instruct players to play in situations the way they would, or how THEY think the player should play. Even unfortunately, when its contrary to the players style and strengths. Players should be able to execute and play more according to THEIR feel of the match, and what falls in line with the players abilities at the moment, not according to the coach's opinions. ( unless he is hitting the ball.) . Especially when it comes to going for shots or playing it safe. Players know THEIR game much better than any college coach who has contributed nothing to the players development prior to college, and doesn't truly know the players capabilities. ( unfortunately most will say otherwise) I have seen players go for big returns in matches when down on consecutive match points, and come back to win the match. (Prior to college) Now the same players in college will just start the point. Unfortunately many coaches say, "just start the point" and "don't go for too much". I say let the player make the decision according to their comfort, style and feelings of the moment. Coaches can maybe make suggestions, but leave the decision to the player.

Every player is different with different strengths and weaknesses. It is insane to to try to coach every player with the same standards. Styles and strengths from player to player can be so different. Too often coaches on the court forget to look at individual player's style and personality, and will confuse what the aggressive players style and strengths are, and what the player who lives on consistency strengths are. You can't ask a player who is very aggressive to push, no more can you ask the player who pushes for consistency to be aggressive during pressure situations. Doing so can be devastating for both players. To make major changes in a players game in college is usually disastrous, and hurts more than it helps especially the player with pro potential. I have heard of coaches telling players to, "keep the balls in play", "Play four balls before you attack", "Hit a chip lob return", "hit to his/her backand". "get to the net". None of which are bad instructions for the right player, but to have a player leave their comfort zone during a match to excute a play that is outside their style of play can be disastrous. Know your player.
All too often coaches think the player that favors consistency is the way to go, and the aggressive player must be toned down. Unfortunately, thats not how you build weapons or do well on the WTA or ATP tour. And having a coach calling plays like he is on the sideline coaching in the NFL or NBA can be distracting and does the player a diservice.

Please coaches, do your coaching in practice and limit your on court oaoching to a minimum so the player can truly develop. And please, don't paint everyone with the same brush, if you want a team of pushers recruit them. If you want a team of aggressive baseliners, recruit them. DON'T try to change the players style to fit your individual ideals of how to win a match, especially during the match, because usually, that will leave you with an unhappy and less successful player. Coach an individual player's game individually, to build a great team. Don't coach team strategies to build individual players, because the players with condradicting styles, that you won't be able to change, will always suffer.

Yet another reason why college tennis truly doesn't prepare players for the pro tour.
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Old Mar 16th, 2014, 06:51 PM   #35
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Re: Does College prepare players to turn Pro?

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Originally Posted by Bigmanserve View Post
Having coaches on the court the entire college match seriously hurts college players with their development. Especially, considering some coaches are not very good.The best coaches do most of their coaching in practice, not during matches. In matches some coaches can become confusing and usually distracting to players. Especially when they are volunteering unsolicited information. ( Unless of course the coaching visit is requested by the player. It then can be very beneficial with the right information.)

Players need to be able to focus on their game and figure out whats happening with their opponents. Too often coaches do what I call "overcoaching" and instruct players to play in situations the way they would, or how THEY think the player should play. Even unfortunately, when its contrary to the players style and strengths. Players should be able to execute and play more according to THEIR feel of the match, and what falls in line with the players abilities at the moment, not according to the coach's opinions. ( unless he is hitting the ball.) . Especially when it comes to going for shots or playing it safe. Players know THEIR game much better than any college coach who has contributed nothing to the players development prior to college, and doesn't truly know the players capabilities. ( unfortunately most will say otherwise) I have seen players go for big returns in matches when down on consecutive match points, and come back to win the match. (Prior to college) Now the same players in college will just start the point. Unfortunately many coaches say, "just start the point" and "don't go for too much". I say let the player make the decision according to their comfort, style and feelings of the moment. Coaches can maybe make suggestions, but leave the decision to the player.

Every player is different with different strengths and weaknesses. It is insane to to try to coach every player with the same standards. Styles and strengths from player to player can be so different. Too often coaches on the court forget to look at individual player's style and personality, and will confuse what the aggressive players style and strengths are, and what the player who lives on consistency strengths are. You can't ask a player who is very aggressive to push, no more can you ask the player who pushes for consistency to be aggressive during pressure situations. Doing so can be devastating for both players. To make major changes in a players game in college is usually disastrous, and hurts more than it helps especially the player with pro potential. I have heard of coaches telling players to, "keep the balls in play", "Play four balls before you attack", "Hit a chip lob return", "hit to his/her backand". "get to the net". None of which are bad instructions for the right player, but to have a player leave their comfort zone during a match to excute a play that is outside their style of play can be disastrous. Know your player.
All too often coaches think the player that favors consistency is the way to go, and the aggressive player must be toned down. Unfortunately, thats not how you build weapons or do well on the WTA or ATP tour. And having a coach calling plays like he is on the sideline coaching in the NFL or NBA can be distracting and does the player a diservice.

Please coaches, do your coaching in practice and limit your on court oaoching to a minimum so the player can truly develop. And please, don't paint everyone with the same brush, if you want a team of pushers recruit them. If you want a team of aggressive baseliners, recruit them. DON'T try to change the players style to fit your individual ideals of how to win a match, especially during the match, because usually, that will leave you with an unhappy and less successful player. Coach an individual player's game individually, to build a great team. Don't coach team strategies to build individual players, because the players with condradicting styles, that you won't be able to change, will always suffer.

Yet another reason why college tennis truly doesn't prepare players for the pro tour.
Which is why nearly every pro player looks to their box after every point and many get warnings in each match? I don't think your argument holds based on visual evidence. They are getting coached during matches too.

How about 99% of the players at the collegiate tennis level are not pro level quality. Just like football, basketball and other sports. 99%+ do not go to the next level. Statistically true.
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Old Mar 16th, 2014, 10:28 PM   #36
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Re: Does College prepare players to turn Pro?

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Originally Posted by beachman49 View Post
Which is why nearly every pro player looks to their box after every point and many get warnings in each match? I don't think your argument holds based on visual evidence. They are getting coached during matches too.

How about 99% of the players at the collegiate tennis level are not pro level quality. Just like football, basketball and other sports. 99%+ do not go to the next level. Statistically true.
I don't know what matches you are watching, but I know for a fact, good players, do not look to their box for coaching after EVERY point. ( looking for affirmation and maybe a fist pump is completely different) Facts are, most players do not look to the box for coaching. Roger Fed. played many years and won majors without a coach on the payroll. Yes Rafa has been warned may times for coaching but I think he is the exception, not the rule. And the I doubt very seriously the stats show that most players do. So people truly will choose not to cheat. As a former tennis dad, Iwould never give signals or coach my kid from the sidelines. Yet I loved it when others would try because I knew, if the kid was focusing on the parent as well as my kid that he is playing, and had to keep focused on their strategies, keeping their game intact, it was going to be a long day for them. We prepared for matches in practice which took away the need to look to the sidelinens for coaching, but she would look for encouragement which is fine. Anyway there is a difference between a player looking to the box for affirmations and a player looking for coaching. Besides, some coaching is allowed at the pro level, just not every point and it is player requested, not coach initiated.

I do agree that a very small number of pro quality players are in college. And rightfully so, because most colleges will destroy a players development as it stands now. And for the players that are, and are pro quality, unless they continue to train with their personal coach, their game is doomed. Oh, and if you don't know, times has change and the time frame of a players development has changed. No longer will teenagers dominate pro tennis at any level. So a higher number of pro quality players are going to college knowing they have more time on the back end. Yet, at this time, the quality of coaching and the system sucks. With more and more pro quality players going to college, they leaving college with less skills than they came with. Which is why 1st and 2nd year college players with pro potential usually do very well. ( Jamie Loeb for example) yet after 2 to 3 years, skills will have diminished greatly.

It's not new news that college tennis doesn't prepare players for the pro tour. Everyone knows that. I would say most college coaches have no interest preparing players for anything other than at most, NCAA's. Most but not all. University of Florida, University of Georgia and a couple others, have placed an interest in truly developing their players, and have done a great job. ( Brianna M, Olivia J. Lauren H, Silvia G has improved greatly) yet 99% of colleges do not. Players just need to be aware before entering college, so picking the right school is crucial if they plan to do more with tennis post college.

Tennis is no way comparable to the other sports, because turning pro in tennis has many different variable that determines if a player chooses to turn pro or not. In tennis, a player can have all the pro potential in the world, but without sponsors to atleast help foot the bills, pro tennis isn't an option and college is the only option. reguardless of the talent. Something football, basketball, baseball players don't have that to worry about. If you're pro material, you will get drafted, because the other sports are TRULY team sports. Tennis is not. No draft in tennis. So there are more players with pro potential that will end uo going to college. (Sorry for the typos..in a hurry)
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Old May 21st, 2014, 11:43 AM   #37
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Re: Does College prepare players to turn Pro?

Pretty much the answer is no.
Like someone said, the successful players on the pro tour post college were late bloomers, or had weapons big enough to do well against pro players.

Had players like Davis, Min, etc gone to college, I'm not sure we would have heard from them again.
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Old May 21st, 2014, 09:09 PM   #38
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Re: Does College prepare players to turn Pro?

I agree 100%
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Old May 22nd, 2014, 01:22 AM   #39
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Re: Does College prepare players to turn Pro?

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Pretty much the answer is no.
Like someone said, the successful players on the pro tour post college were late bloomers, or had weapons big enough to do well against pro players.

Had players like Davis, Min, etc gone to college, I'm not sure we would have heard from them again.
3 years on the tour is what it seems to take (casual observation) to even approach the top 100.

At the age of 17 and 18, these girls haven't really developed physically to compete against power.

Maybe it's experience of being on the tour facing stiffer competition and being 100% dedicated that gives players a fighting chance.

Or the pressure of struggling financially as those players that don't make Top 80, don't break-even.

College life gives a false sense of reality with:
winning easy dual matches vs. losing in qualifying rounds
campus life comradery vs. lonely hotel and travel in small towns and foreign countries
development of winning risk-free vs. development of skills

I'd say more but I'd probably piss-off the likes of players like Gibbsy who truly believe in college development
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Old May 22nd, 2014, 03:08 AM   #40
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Re: Does College prepare players to turn Pro?

I am not convinced that turning pro at 16 or 17 is the answer, yet if college tennis continues such poor levels of development, young players have no choice. Its better to look to improve on tour, even if it means losing for 3 years ( If you can afford it), than to lower your level and have poor coaching destroy your game in college. Most college coaches teach a style of tennis that wont transition to the pro level. College tennis must get better and it begins with better coaching. But I doubt it wil ever happen.
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Old May 22nd, 2014, 03:14 AM   #41
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Re: Does College prepare players to turn Pro?

The women's game has changed and matured in many ways. Gone are the days when teenagers could turn pro and do well on the tour. I think this will lead to less juniors deciding to turn pro. This could benefit us fans who follow college tennis.
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Old May 22nd, 2014, 09:34 PM   #42
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Re: Does College prepare players to turn Pro?

I agree Slickshoes510. Gone are the days of teenagers winning majors or even doing well on the tour unless they are just a physical beast and very mature. Yet, the USTA and most sponsors are still are looking at teenagers for the next US Champion. That is probably why they haven't found one since the Williams sisters. The game has truly changed, yet the mindset of the USTA and most sponsors hasn't. Which is unfortunate for the players going to college. Getting sponsorship is much more tough after college for most players. Most youngsters are forced to look at turning pro as, " its now or never". Which isn't necessarly true anymore. If not for that stigma, players like Mayo Hibi, and Taylor Townsend would have probably chozen to go to college, instead of turning pro so young. Neither player probably won't have much success for 4 plus years anyway.
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Old Jul 19th, 2014, 09:44 AM   #43
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Re: Does College prepare players to turn Pro?

Hi, I am newbie to this forum. I think college works for some players but not everyone.
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Old Jul 20th, 2014, 03:30 AM   #44
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Re: Does College prepare players to turn Pro?

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Hi, I am newbie to this forum. I think college works for some players but not everyone.
After speaking with more current college players and families(women), I am even more convinced that college tennis absolutely does not prepare players to turn pro. And most players don't believe college prepare them for that as well. The stats also prove that college tennis is not the way to go for the truly talented players. Skills, ambition and motivation diminishes while in college. The level of coaching in college is too weak to sustain the truly talented players and they receive a rude awakening upon graduation or while playing summer ITF events. Top players in college are usually the freshmen and sophmores, because quality coaching from their junior years are the most recent with them. (Jamie loeb, Haley Carter...) After the 2nd year in college its all downhill for most.
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Old Jul 20th, 2014, 04:15 PM   #45
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Re: Does College prepare players to turn Pro?

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After speaking with more current college players and families(women), I am even more convinced that college tennis absolutely does not prepare players to turn pro. And most players don't believe college prepare them for that as well. The stats also prove that college tennis is not the way to go for the truly talented players. Skills, ambition and motivation diminishes while in college. The level of coaching in college is too weak to sustain the truly talented players and they receive a rude awakening upon graduation or while playing summer ITF events. Top players in college are usually the freshmen and sophmores, because quality coaching from their junior years are the most recent with them. (Jamie loeb, Haley Carter...) After the 2nd year in college its all downhill for most.
Loeb was 53-4 in her freshman year in college, but at pro tournaments this year she is 6-5.
If numbers speak, there is a big gap between the competition at the college level and at the pro tournaments, even at the challenger circuit.

More and more, I am thinking college is a place where junior tennis players go to drop-out of the intense competition level at the pro level.
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