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Old Nov 26th, 2013, 03:19 PM   #31
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Re: Why Serena is still well behind Chris and Martina N.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty-Dom View Post
AO
Chris: 2 out of 6 = 33%
Martina: 3 out of 10 = 30%
Serena 5 out of 14 = 36%

USO
Chris: 6 out of 19 = 31%
Matina: 4 out of 21 = 19%
Serena: 5 out of 13 = 38%

Wimbledon:
Chris: 3 out of 18 = 17%
Martina: 9 out of 23 = 39%
Serena: 5 out of 14 = 36%

FO:
Chris: 7 out of 13 = 54%
Martina: 2 out of 13 = 15%
Serena: 2 out of 12 = 17%

Overall:
Chris: 18 out of 56 = 32%
Martina: 18 out of 67 = 27%
Serena: 17 out of 53 = 32%

They are pretty equal GS achievers. Serena shines on hard and grass courts, Chris excelled on clay, Martina on grass. Martina's stats are a bit suppressed by how long she played past her prime. Serena absolutely deserves equal recognition for her achievements with the other two American greats. If she wins another FO she will be the most well-rounded player of the three. If she wins other slams and goes to 19 or more, she has a legitimate claim to be a better singles player than the other two.
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You opinion is invalid because of your blind hate for Serena, cause she snatched your fave's wig 13 times in a row

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Old Nov 26th, 2013, 03:20 PM   #32
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Re: Why Serena is still well behind Chris and Martina N.

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Originally Posted by gbenga View Post
Desperate haters already scrambling silly argument for when our lovely Serena hit 18. The desperation
The ridiculous hyperbolic ad hominem BS.

Maybe you're ugly on the inside. Feel better? It seems that when Serena Williams is mentioned, no one can discuss anything. It always has to be insults and raving accusations about race.
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Old Nov 26th, 2013, 03:28 PM   #33
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Re: Why Serena is still well behind Chris and Martina N.

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Originally Posted by renstar View Post
Regarding Evert it must be realised she missed out a great number of Australian Opens and quite a few French Opens.
So did Serena.
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Old Nov 26th, 2013, 03:29 PM   #34
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Re: Why Serena is still well behind Chris and Martina N.

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Originally Posted by superstition View Post
The ridiculous hyperbolic ad hominem BS.

Maybe you're ugly on the inside. Feel better? It seems that when Serena Williams is mentioned, no one can discuss anything. It always has to be insults and raving accusations about race.
Race? Who said anything about race. Your conscience seem to be judging you already I guess.

And aren't you overusing that Latin phrase?
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Old Nov 26th, 2013, 03:32 PM   #35
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Re: Why Serena is still well behind Chris and Martina N.

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Originally Posted by blamoh View Post
Have Serana and Venus not come around, do you know how many grandslams Martina Higgins and Davenport would have won in total. Very large number. But they could not because of the competition.
So tell us who were the other girls who were playing when navratilova and Evert were dominating?
Great post. Very well said.
Hingis was running the table when Serena came along. And Serena stopped her cold. Hingis stayed number one for 2 years but could no longer see a Grand Slam final.
The game had changed.

Last edited by Serve2Win : Nov 26th, 2013 at 03:38 PM.
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Old Nov 26th, 2013, 03:34 PM   #36
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Re: Why Serena is still well behind Chris and Martina N.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbenga View Post
Race? Who said anything about race. Your conscience seem to be judging you already I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbenga View Post
And aren't you overusing that Latin phrase?


Ad hominem is ad hominem. It's only tedious to point it out when people tediously use it again and again.
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Old Nov 26th, 2013, 03:34 PM   #37
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Re: Why Serena is still well behind Chris and Martina N.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty-Dom View Post
AO
Chris: 2 out of 6 = 33%
Martina: 3 out of 10 = 30%
Serena 5 out of 14 = 36%

USO
Chris: 6 out of 19 = 31%
Matina: 4 out of 21 = 19%
Serena: 5 out of 13 = 38%

Wimbledon:
Chris: 3 out of 18 = 17%
Martina: 9 out of 23 = 39%
Serena: 5 out of 14 = 36%

FO:
Chris: 7 out of 13 = 54%
Martina: 2 out of 13 = 15%
Serena: 2 out of 12 = 17%

Overall:
Chris: 18 out of 56 = 32%
Martina: 18 out of 67 = 27%
Serena: 17 out of 53 = 32%

They are pretty equal GS achievers. Serena shines on hard and grass courts, Chris excelled on clay, Martina on grass. Martina's stats are a bit suppressed by how long she played past her prime. Serena absolutely deserves equal recognition for her achievements with the other two American greats. If she wins another FO she will be the most well-rounded player of the three. If she wins other slams and goes to 19 or more, she has a legitimate claim to be a better singles player than the other two.
Good research. This should close the debate. Serena is the greatest of all 3.
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Old Nov 26th, 2013, 03:36 PM   #38
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Re: Why Serena is still well behind Chris and Martina N.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serve2Win View Post
Good research. This should close the debate. Serena is the greatest of all 3.
If you look at certain cherry-picked statistics in an overly simplistic way.

When you have to face the likes of Graf, Evert, and Seles at majors it's funny how you might not always win.
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Old Nov 26th, 2013, 03:37 PM   #39
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Re: Why Serena is still well behind Chris and Martina N.

the haters will never give up.
they realize Serena is about to pass Martina and Evert.
So they are starting to move the target with all those hair splitting stats.

Last edited by Serve2Win : Nov 26th, 2013 at 03:42 PM.
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Old Nov 26th, 2013, 03:37 PM   #40
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Re: Why Serena is still well behind Chris and Martina N.

Martina and Chris playing today would never win 160 singles titles. Probably not even 100. Regardless what you think of tougher or weaker competition, the game today is far more physical than it ever was back then. Playing as often and as long relatively injury free is completely unrealistic. That said I do think Serena needs to continue to bulk up her tournament wins tally. 80 would already be good enough for GOAT.

The only areas I see Serena as legitimately far lacking in comparision is time at number 1 and career consistency. However the number 1 ranking is often a source of controversy and ridicule in this era so that must be taken with a grain of salt. It is true Serena burdens some of the blame for years where she wasnt performing as much outside the slams, but even with that under the older ranking system there are many times she would have been number 1 that she wasnt for quite awhile under the current.

I think once Serena reaches 19 slams most will regard as superior to Chris and Martina, if not the outright GOAT.
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Old Nov 26th, 2013, 03:40 PM   #41
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Re: Why Serena is still well behind Chris and Martina N.

Quote:
Originally Posted by superstition View Post
If you look at certain cherry-picked statistics in an overly simplistic way.

When you have to face the likes of Graf, Evert, and Seles at majors it's funny how you might not always win.
Graf and Seles are about 15 years apart in age from Martina. Lets not pretend in some fantasy World they were contemporary rivals. Seles was closer to being a rival of Serena than she ever was to Martina who she only began playing in her twilight years. We might as well count Graf, Seles, Sanchez, as all being contemporary rivals of Serena in that case too.
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Old Nov 26th, 2013, 03:40 PM   #42
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Re: Why Serena is still well behind Chris and Martina N.

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Originally Posted by rollingraces View Post
Martina and Chris playing today would never win 160 singles titles. Probably not even 100. Regardless what you think of tougher or weaker competition, the game today is far more physical than it ever was back then. Playing as often and as long relatively injury free is completely unrealistic.
The fact that the sport has been degraded by so many hard courts, stiff racquets, and stiff strings does not minimize the quality of Martina's record. The injury problem is not because tennis has improved. It's because the equipment and courts have become homogeneous and unfriendly to the body.

There were many many many ladies playing tennis before her and during her time. None of them won so many titles -- including while having to face someone like Evert for most of their careers.

Also, Martina played hard on hard courts as well. Serving and volleying -- lunging after shots -- that is tough on the back and joints. She wasn't foolish -- doing the splits on hard courts and so on. Some of the injuries players get are from not playing within themselves.
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Old Nov 26th, 2013, 03:45 PM   #43
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Re: Why Serena is still well behind Chris and Martina N.

And Serena achieved all her results,( except this year 2013) as a part time tennis player. She was not playing 18 - 30 tournaments a year, like Navaratilova and Evert were doing. There are years she barely played 7 tournaments.

Her first 3 years, she played less than 6 tournaments in total.

We'll see more and more of these hair-splitting stats as Serena is taking over the Slam counts. Many people are hurting. Too bad.

Last edited by Serve2Win : Nov 26th, 2013 at 04:05 PM.
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Old Nov 26th, 2013, 03:47 PM   #44
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Re: Why Serena is still well behind Chris and Martina N.

The fact is that Serena owned almost all GS champions she met. The only GS champion she met and against who's she has a negative H2H is ASV (3-4) and the last meeting was in 2000, before Serena became the player we know today. So stop bullshitting about Evert's and Martina's competition was were some godelike players; i bet Serena would have owned them just as much as every other GS champion she ever met.
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Old Nov 26th, 2013, 03:48 PM   #45
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Re: Why Serena is still well behind Chris and Martina N.

The bottom line is that Chrissy was and is still viewed as "tennis royalty" and she was BELOVED all around the world because she was better than the less than mediocre players she faced, and she was the blonde girl with the right body and the tennis establishment promoted her.

People's views have already been shaped and that's something that isn't easily changed. At the end of the day, Serena is still a Williams and Richard's offspring. But to me to compare Serena to them is IRRELEVANT because at the end of the day all sports have the players who are the best during their time, and after they have left the scene they will no longer be talked about.

When Serena has left tennis, she will no longer be talked about just like we no longer talk about Graf, Seles, Court, BJK, Chrissy, with the exception of comparing their records during a slam. That's where SErena will find her spot too. Nobody is talking about Bill Russell, Dr. J, Larry Bird, Magic, Michael, Shaq, Ewing, Malone, or any of the other greats because they've left the sport and they talk about the current players.

Serena has an awesome career and as long as she accomplishes her goals and fulfills her true purpose on this earth, then she won't care about anything else.
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