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Old Nov 26th, 2013, 08:55 AM   #1
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Why Serena is still well behind Chris and Martina N.

Well suppose Serena gets that illusive 18th GS singles title to put her on par with Navratilova and Evert, behind Graff and Court. There are a number of factors her record should still be seen well below the achievements of Evert and Navratilova.

Regarding Evert it must be realised she missed out a great number of Australian Opens and quite a few French Opens. The AO was not considered the major tournament it is today back in the 70s and was often skipped by a lot of the top ladies of the time. Evert attended the AO only 6 times in her 19 year tennis career, winning twice. At this current time Serena has attended the AO 13 times for 5 wins.

In regards to the FO over her 19 year playing career Chris she missed the FO 6 times, winning 7 times (attending 13 FO). The missed years were due to her playing World Team Tennis and restrictions put on her that she not be allowed to play the FO due to her WTT commitments. Serena has attended the FO 16 times with 2 wins.

Chris attended the USO an incredible 19 times in a row from 1971-1989, winning 6 times. Serena has attended the USO 14 times for 5 wins.

Chris attended Wimbledon 18 times with 3 wins, although reaching an astonishing 7 additonal finals on other occassion, invariably losing to Martina on most of those occassions.

Evert reached 34 GS singles finals, more than any other male or female player in history as well as having the higest winning percentage in male or female history of 90.05% with 157 career titles, well clear of Serenas 57. So based on these factors if they were to be equal at 18 GS singles titles each I still put Chris well ahead.

In comparison to Martina Navratilova I put Martina well ahead of Serena by sheer volume of her 167 career titles (compared to Serenas 57) which includes 18 GS singles titles, a record 31 GS womens doubles titles and 15 GS mixed doubles titles. Serena has 13 GS womens doubles titles and 4 GS mixed titles, well short of Martina's records.

I also consider Chris and Martina as being much more versatile players than Serena is, having had to play Grand Slams on varying surfaces such as Grass, different types of clay and hard courts. They also had to contend with wooden and graphite rackets. Their versatility is also seen particularly in Martina who could rally with the very best baseliners and yet showed one of the most skilled volley games in modern history. Serena tends to have a one dimensional power game and tends to overpower opponents due to her strength for a woman.

In any case this is my opinion backed by facts.
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Old Nov 26th, 2013, 08:57 AM   #2
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Re: Why Serena is still well behind Chris and Martina N.

that's SO disrespectful.
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Old Nov 26th, 2013, 09:00 AM   #3
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Re: Why Serena is still well behind Chris and Martina N.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asif_Nawaz View Post
that's SO disrespectful.
how can facts and statistics be disrespectful, they are just numbers, take it however u want
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Old Nov 26th, 2013, 09:05 AM   #4
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Re: Why Serena is still well behind Chris and Martina N.

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Originally Posted by renstar View Post
how can facts and statistics be disrespectful, they are just numbers, take it however u want
Tennis was at a totally different level of development back then, the gap between top players and lower ranked one was way bigger than it's now. You have to take Chris's and Martina's stats with a grain of salt, their opposition was way weaker. If a player back then had a single weapon that stood out in the field, they were able to dominate almost everybody they encountered. That's also the reason why they played way more matches and won way more titles.
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Old Nov 26th, 2013, 09:20 AM   #5
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Re: Why Serena is still well behind Chris and Martina N.

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Originally Posted by renstar View Post
how can facts and statistics be disrespectful, they are just numbers, take it however u want


That's the core point .
You also have to put Navratilova and Evert way above Graf as their respective numbers put them .
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Old Nov 26th, 2013, 09:47 AM   #6
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Re: Why Serena is still well behind Chris and Martina N.

One thing you failed to realize is the competition these days. During Serena time she has to beat the best of players to win
the 17 grandslams. Example: Martina Higgins at her peak, world number one, Lindsay Davenport also world number one
and her peak, Justinat her peak, Venus, Capriatti, Clijsters and few players who put up surprise at grandslams at
time.
Have Serana and Venus not come around, do you know how many grandslams Martina Higgins and Davenport would have won
in total. Very large number. But they could not because of the competition.
So tell us who were the other girls who were playing when navratilova and Evert were dominating?
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Old Nov 26th, 2013, 09:54 AM   #7
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Re: Why Serena is still well behind Chris and Martina N.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blamoh View Post
One thing you failed to realize is the competition these days. During Serena time she has to beat the best of players to win
the 17 grandslams. Example: Martina Higgins at her peak, world number one, Lindsay Davenport also world number one
and her peak, Justinat her peak, Venus, Capriatti, Clijsters and few players who put up surprise at grandslams at
time.
Have Serana and Venus not come around, do you know how many grandslams Martina Higgins and Davenport would have won
in total. Very large number. But they could not because of the competition.
So tell us who were the other girls who were playing when navratilova and Evert were dominating?
Chris and Martina did have competition. Court, Kings, Goolagong, Austin, Wade, Mandlikova and later Graf and so on. The main difference is that playing on mostly grass/clay with wood racquets is different to playing on mostly hard with modern racquets. You can't play as much as before with the modern game's demands on the body.

Seles/Graf played and dominated less than Evert/Navratilova who in turn played less than Court who I believe won the most number of tournaments in a season.

It's always funny to see people trying to drag in all-time greats to bring down Serena. I guess that's what they've been reduced to. But the funny thing about it is that you can drag any all-time great to bring down another. Helen Wills won 19 majors and she didn't even play the Australian. Therefore, she's far ahead of Chris and Martina. See, how easy that was?
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Old Nov 26th, 2013, 09:59 AM   #8
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Re: Why Serena is still well behind Chris and Martina N.

Quote:
Originally Posted by renstar View Post
how can facts and statistics be disrespectful, they are just numbers, take it however u want
I think that's the disrespect right there. You're taking numbers that are set in stone and cannot change and comparing them to numbers that continue to change year after year. That's the disrespect. Since when do we compare a retired player with an active player when it comes to numbers?

I find that more so an uneducated basic ass decision.
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Old Nov 26th, 2013, 10:33 AM   #9
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Re: Why Serena is still well behind Chris and Martina N.

AO
Chris: 2 out of 6 = 33%
Martina: 3 out of 10 = 30%
Serena 5 out of 14 = 36%

USO
Chris: 6 out of 19 = 31%
Matina: 4 out of 21 = 19%
Serena: 5 out of 13 = 38%

Wimbledon:
Chris: 3 out of 18 = 17%
Martina: 9 out of 23 = 39%
Serena: 5 out of 14 = 36%

FO:
Chris: 7 out of 13 = 54%
Martina: 2 out of 13 = 15%
Serena: 2 out of 12 = 17%

Overall:
Chris: 18 out of 56 = 32%
Martina: 18 out of 67 = 27%
Serena: 17 out of 53 = 32%

They are pretty equal GS achievers. Serena shines on hard and grass courts, Chris excelled on clay, Martina on grass. Martina's stats are a bit suppressed by how long she played past her prime. Serena absolutely deserves equal recognition for her achievements with the other two American greats. If she wins another FO she will be the most well-rounded player of the three. If she wins other slams and goes to 19 or more, she has a legitimate claim to be a better singles player than the other two.
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Old Nov 26th, 2013, 11:18 AM   #10
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Re: Why Serena is still well behind Chris and Martina N.

Regarding Evert it must be realised she missed out a great number of Australian Opens and quite a few French Opens. The AO was not considered the major tournament it is today back in the 70s and was often skipped by a lot of the top ladies of the time. Evert attended the AO only 6 times in her 19 year tennis career, winning twice. At this current time Serena has attended the AO 13 times for 5 wins.


And how is that LORDRENA's problem. Chris Evert DELIBERATELY CHOOSE TO SKIP THE AUSTRALIAN OPEN. SHE THOUGHT IT WAS BENEATH HER TO PLAY THAT TOURNAMENT .If anything history is punishing her, for her arrogance.

Top players routinely played the Austrailian Open in all of Serena's Australian Open wins , WHICH MEANS SERENA'S WINS CAME AGAINST SUPERIOR COMPETITION. YOU OWNED YOURSELF !!!!!!


In regards to the FO over her 19 year playing career Chris she missed the FO 6 times, winning 7 times (attending 13 FO). The missed years were due to her playing World Team Tennis and restrictions put on her that she not be allowed to play the FO due to her WTT commitments. Serena has attended the FO 16 times with 2 wins.


PRISSIE CHRISSIE HAD THE OPTION OF CHOSING BETWEEN WTT & THE FRENCH OPEN. She made a disastrous choice. She knew the repruccions of her actions. SHE CHOSE TO UNDERMINE THE FRENCH OPEN TO WHORE OUT MONEY AT THE WTT. SERVES HER RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!

Serena won multiple french open's and that is how history will view her record. SUCKS TO BE YOU HATER!!!



Chris attended the USO an incredible 19 times in a row from 1971-1989, winning 6 times. Serena has attended the USO 14 times for 5 wins.

I DID NOT KNOW THEY HAND OUT MEDALS FOR PLAYING THE US OPEN MOST CONSECUTIVE YEARS IN A ROW, MUST HAVE MISSED OUT ON THE MEMO

Chris attended Wimbledon 18 times with 3 wins, although reaching an astonishing 7 additonal finals on other occassion, invariably losing to Martina on most of those occassions.

Translation : Serena Williams won more Wimbledon titles than Evert

Evert reached 34 GS singles finals, more than any other male or female player in history as well as having the higest winning percentage in male or female history of 90.05% with 157 career titles, well clear of Serenas 57. So based on these factors if they were to be equal at 18 GS singles titles each I still put Chris well ahead.

LIKE YOUR OPINION MATTERS !!

whilst you are at it please elaborate on the number of rounds Evert had to play to win her tournaments in the 1970's. In some of the tournaments she had to play less that 2 rounds to win the title. Boy they must have exhausting

In comparison to Martina Navratilova I put Martina well ahead of Serena by sheer volume of her 167 career titles (compared to Serenas 57) which includes 18 GS singles titles, a record 31 GS womens doubles titles and 15 GS mixed doubles titles. Serena has 13 GS womens doubles titles and 4 GS mixed titles, well short of Martina's records.



Yes Serena falls short of Navratilova's record,

ALONG WITH EVERT, GRAF, MOODY.

I also consider Chris and Martina as being much more versatile players than Serena is, having had to play Grand Slams on varying surfaces such as Grass, different types of clay and hard courts.


Evert's won her slam on Australian grass, Wimbledon fast grass , red clay, green clay, fast decoturf 2 i.e 5

Navratilova won her slams on Australian grass, Wimbledon fast grass , red clay, fast decoturf 2 i.e 4

LORDRENA won her slams on Rebound Ace, Plexicushion, Slow red Clay, Fast red clay, Fast wimbledon grass, slow Wimbledon Grass, Fast Decoturf 2 , Slow decoturf two i.e 8

WHOSE IS MORE VERSATILE NOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


They also had to contend with wooden and graphite rackets


SERENA HAD TO CONTEND WITH NATURAL GUT STRINGS AND POLY STRINGS

Their versatility is also seen particularly in Martina who could rally with the very best baseliners and yet showed one of the most skilled volley games in modern history.

Could you please post videos of navratilova hitting a Forehand drive volley, backhand drive volley and hitting winners whilst doing the splits,

Surely a versatile player like navratilova should have hit those shots.

Also post videos of chris evert doing the same as She is also soo versatile

Serena tends to have a one dimensional power game and tends to overpower opponents due to her strength for a woman.

Yes and Navratilova was the epitome of feminity and only beat her opponents by hitting feather touch volleys
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Old Nov 26th, 2013, 11:29 AM   #11
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Re: Why Serena is still well behind Chris and Martina N.

Agree with OP. And when Serena reaches 19, she passes them both.
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Old Nov 26th, 2013, 11:50 AM   #12
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Re: Why Serena is still well behind Chris and Martina N.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty-Dom View Post
AO
Chris: 2 out of 6 = 33%
Martina: 3 out of 10 = 30%
Serena 5 out of 14 = 36%

USO
Chris: 6 out of 19 = 31%
Matina: 4 out of 21 = 19%
Serena: 5 out of 13 = 38%

Wimbledon:
Chris: 3 out of 18 = 17%
Martina: 9 out of 23 = 39%
Serena: 5 out of 14 = 36%

FO:
Chris: 7 out of 13 = 54%
Martina: 2 out of 13 = 15%
Serena: 2 out of 12 = 17%

Overall:
Chris: 18 out of 56 = 32%
Martina: 18 out of 67 = 27%
Serena: 17 out of 53 = 32%

They are pretty equal GS achievers. Serena shines on hard and grass courts, Chris excelled on clay, Martina on grass. Martina's stats are a bit suppressed by how long she played past her prime. Serena absolutely deserves equal recognition for her achievements with the other two American greats. If she wins another FO she will be the most well-rounded player of the three. If she wins other slams and goes to 19 or more, she has a legitimate claim to be a better singles player than the other two.
Nobody cares about that, sorry.
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Old Nov 26th, 2013, 12:19 PM   #13
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Re: Why Serena is still well behind Chris and Martina N.

Weren't the Grand Slam draws smaller for part of Chris and Martina's careers?
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Old Nov 26th, 2013, 12:20 PM   #14
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Re: Why Serena is still well behind Chris and Martina N.

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Originally Posted by renstar View Post
Serena tends to have a one dimensional power game and tends to overpower opponents due to her strength for a woman.
This.

But I have little doubt she'll pass the 18- or even 20-slam mark given the current state of the field.
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Old Nov 26th, 2013, 12:29 PM   #15
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Re: Why Serena is still well behind Chris and Martina N.

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Originally Posted by Petronius View Post
This.

But I have little doubt she'll pass the 18- or even 20-slam mark given the current state of the field.
Navratilova was as big as Serena, and Sharapova and Kvitova are just as strong; describing her as one dimensional is so far from reality, you probably have never seen one of her matches. Excellent serving technique, good defense, good touch, mental toughness etc. And she can bring on each of these qualities whenever she is in danger. That's what makes her better than her opposition, not necessary her strength, cause we all know the huge amount of big strong babes that Serena eats for breakfast every time.
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