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Old Oct 12th, 2013, 05:59 PM   #1
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TF Japanese Learners - TFの日本語の学生

みなさんこんにちは。

I've been learning Japanese now as my second foreign language and I love it! Although I don't even have the basic conversational skills yet, I'm already in love with the language and writing in Kana is so much fun. So I was wondering, are there any members who speak or learn Japanese as a foreign language? What level are you? How many Kanjis do you know? Which textbook do you use?

さようなら。

PS. Can someone please confirm if the thread title is correct?

Last edited by Daruma. : Nov 19th, 2013 at 08:11 PM.
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Old Oct 12th, 2013, 09:19 PM   #2
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Re: TF Japanese Learners - TF のにほんごのがくせい

TFの日本語の学生 is fine. You could also use TFの日本語を勉強している学生.

I've studied Japanese for 3 years and am about to study about in Kyoto in the spring and summer. I was taught from the Genki series and now "An Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese" from The Japan Times. It's hard to say what level you are in learning a language, in my classes now we usually translate short stories, so I'd say I can read simpler Japanese literature and could get around Japan just fine.

Also saying さようなら is a little strange for this situation, it doesn't really translate directly to "bye" or anything in other languages; it kind of suggests you might not see or talk to the person again for a long time. "じゃまた” would probably be better.
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Old Oct 12th, 2013, 09:29 PM   #3
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Re: TF Japanese Learners - TF のにほんごのがくせい

I don't know if I should study Japanese or Chinese, I prefer the Japanese culture but Chinese might be more useful...
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Old Oct 12th, 2013, 09:40 PM   #4
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Re: TF Japanese Learners - TF のにほんごのがくせい

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Originally Posted by Sammo View Post
I don't know if I should study Japanese or Chinese, I prefer the Japanese culture but Chinese might be more useful...
Chinese is more useful, unless if you want to spend a lot of time in Japan, but Chinese is also a lot harder.
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Old Oct 12th, 2013, 09:45 PM   #5
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Re: TF Japanese Learners - TF のにほんごのがくせい

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Originally Posted by Sam L View Post
Chinese is more useful, unless if you want to spend a lot of time in Japan, but Chinese is also a lot harder.
I study both and I have to disagree. Japanese is much harder imo. It has almost as many kanji/hanzi to learn, there's literally like 30 ways to conjugate a single verb I swear - depending on tense, level of speech (formal, non-formal) and who you're talking to - and word order is much more different from European languages than word order in Chinese is (Some Chinese sentences can be translated almost word for word into English or other Western European languages, something that will NEVER happen in Japanese). The only thing more difficult in Chinese imo is pronunciation, Japanese is very easy to pick up. But I find Chinese grammar much easier to deal with than Japanese grammar. I also have Chinese studying friends who agree with me about Japanese being harder.

And Chinese would probably be more useful if you're only learning one, so you might want to go with that. But imo it's impossible to learn a language if you aren't interested in the culture and country it comes from, so if you're not interested in China and are just forcing yourself to learn Chinese you won't ever learn it.
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Old Oct 12th, 2013, 09:56 PM   #6
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Re: TF Japanese Learners - TF のにほんごのがくせい

I love Japanese culture and I love anime, I would love to learn Japanese (and chinese) when I finish college!
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Old Oct 12th, 2013, 09:59 PM   #7
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Re: TF Japanese Learners - TF のにほんごのがくせい

Lived in Japan for 2 and a half years now. Despite that, my Japanese particularly in reading and writing remains at a low level.

My conversational Japanese has improved a bit but not radically.

Somehow I can't remember new words when they are written in Hiragana. I still picture them in Romaji.

One thing I would like is a broader range of adjectives...textbooks tend to have the same small range of adjectives, and Id like to expand that.
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Old Oct 12th, 2013, 10:14 PM   #8
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Re: TF Japanese Learners - TF のにほんごのがくせい

Quote:
Originally Posted by dybbuk View Post
I study both and I have to disagree. Japanese is much harder imo. It has almost as many kanji/hanzi to learn, there's literally like 30 ways to conjugate a single verb I swear - depending on tense, level of speech (formal, non-formal) and who you're talking to - and word order is much more different from European languages than word order in Chinese is (Some Chinese sentences can be translated almost word for word into English or other Western European languages, something that will NEVER happen in Japanese). The only thing more difficult in Chinese imo is pronunciation, Japanese is very easy to pick up. But I find Chinese grammar much easier to deal with than Japanese grammar. I also have Chinese studying friends who agree with me about Japanese being harder.

And Chinese would probably be more useful if you're only learning one, so you might want to go with that. But imo it's impossible to learn a language if you aren't interested in the culture and country it comes from, so if you're not interested in China and are just forcing yourself to learn Chinese you won't ever learn it.
I think it depends on what you find more difficult, I agree. For example, German grammar is more difficult than French but pronunciation is a lot easier. That's more where I'm coming from. But the sheer difficulty in pronunciation (tonal system, especially for English speakers) and the writing system makes it a harder challenge imo. Hmm.. I agree about the syntax, although I've only dabbled in both.

Yes, I was going to say that about liking the culture too. It all depends on how you want to use it but it's important that you use it.
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Old Oct 12th, 2013, 10:20 PM   #9
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Re: TF Japanese Learners - TF のにほんごのがくせい

Has there been any developments in the classification of Japanese into language families? Altaic? Isolate?
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Old Oct 12th, 2013, 11:04 PM   #10
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Re: TF Japanese Learners - TF のにほんごのがくせい

Quote:
Originally Posted by dybbuk View Post

And Chinese would probably be more useful if you're only learning one, so you might want to go with that. But imo it's impossible to learn a language if you aren't interested in the culture and country it comes from, so if you're not interested in China and are just forcing yourself to learn Chinese you won't ever learn it.
No I just prefer Japan that's it, China is pretty fascinating too.
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Old Oct 12th, 2013, 11:39 PM   #11
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Re: TF Japanese Learners - TF のにほんごのがくせい

I am a fluent speaker of both languages (my mother tongue is Cantonese). I think that the grammar of Japanese is very very straightforward, but the number of vocab is huge (my Japanese teacher said the same thing).

I always say that Japanese has more similarities to western languages than it is to Chinese..it has present and past tenses, alphabet-like writing system, and many gairaigo (loan words).

On the other hand Chinese is a totally unique and foreign language in the whole world. Especially Cantonese
I mean, the vocalization and the words have no connection. AT ALL. Even Chinese can't remember how to write words sometimes because of this. You can't use pronunciation to help you remember words. How stupid is that?

so I would say Chinese is MUCH harder to learn than Japanese.

Last edited by TheNexus : Oct 13th, 2013 at 12:06 AM.
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Old Oct 12th, 2013, 11:51 PM   #12
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Re: TF Japanese Learners - TF のにほんごのがくせい

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Originally Posted by Sam L View Post
Has there been any developments in the classification of Japanese into language families? Altaic? Isolate?
I can't agree on the altaic language proposal. Japanese language is different from every other languages due to its geographical location. It has its own vocal system already even before they had a writing system adopted from Chinese. The writing system is only 1600 years old.
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Old Oct 12th, 2013, 11:58 PM   #13
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Re: TF Japanese Learners - TF のにほんごのがくせい

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I can't agree on the altaic language proposal. Japanese language is different from every other languages due to its geographical location. It has its own vocal system already even before they had a writing system adopted from Chinese. The writing system is only 1600 years old.
I am in the Japanese Altaic camp. I don't see what it having a language before Chinese introduced writing to it has to do with anything either. I've studied basic Korean too and I could never escape how similar Japanese and Korean are. Their grammars are almost identical in parts. I very much believe in a Japanese-Korean-Turkish Altaic group.

And and I never got the point that Japanese has kana so it's easier than Japanese. Yes it has a syllabary system similar to the English alphabet, only it has TWO of them plus it uses tons of kanji too. That point just doesn't even make sense to me.
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Old Oct 13th, 2013, 12:17 AM   #14
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Re: TF Japanese Learners - TF のにほんごのがくせい

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Originally Posted by dybbuk View Post
I am in the Japanese Altaic camp. I don't see what it having a language before Chinese introduced writing to it has to do with anything either. I've studied basic Korean too and I could never escape how similar Japanese and Korean are. Their grammars are almost identical in parts. I very much believe in a Japanese-Korean-Turkish Altaic group.

And and I never got the point that Japanese has kana so it's easier than Japanese. Yes it has a syllabary system similar to the English alphabet, only it has TWO of them plus it uses tons of kanji too. That point just doesn't even make sense to me.
I thought the main focus of language group is origin, not influence? You can't group them together if their origin is not even the same.
Well anyway Japanese isn't that similar to Korean anyway. At least in the ancient time. My Korean friend who speaks fluent Japanese said many Koreans believed that Korean language only became similar to Japanese since their annexation by Japanese, who edited their system!

Of course I don't believe that claim, but I think people should read this if they have time. The Koreans might be right in the sense that Korean isn't similar to Japanese. http://www2.odn.ne.jp/~had26900/topi...o_chosengo.htm

No matter what you say, Japanese is vastly different from all languages, including Chinese and Korean.

Last edited by TheNexus : Oct 13th, 2013 at 12:29 AM.
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Old Oct 13th, 2013, 12:30 AM   #15
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Re: TF Japanese Learners - TF のにほんごのがくせい

You're not going to change an entire language's grammar after controlling a country for 40 years. The similarities between Japanese and Korean grammar existed before then. That has nothing to do with Japan's influence over Korea or vice versa. You form language groups by similarities that stem from the mother Altaic language they all stemmed from, and imo after studying both there's too many deep rooted similarities between the two of them for them not to be related.
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