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Old Oct 4th, 2013, 12:26 PM   #1
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"1997 was one of the weakest years ever duhhhh"

Honestly I'm tired of this argument, it wasn't Martina's fault that the 'top-tier' opponents were either in a mental slump like Capriati or didn't have enough experience to beat her even if they were her age like the sisters or slightly older like Mauresmo and even 4 years older like Davenport. And don't give me the "Graf was injured" thing, she wasn't injured in 1996 (one of her best years) and 15 year-old Martina still beat her at the semifinals of the Italian Open. Besides, there wouldn't have been any awesome 2002 for Serena if Graf had kept on playing and was injury-free like Serena is right now, so the injured Graf argument works in both ways too.

Honestly I can't even deal with these morons that say that she retired in 2002 because she "couldn't keep up with the power", first of all have you even seen the players she was losing to when she decided to retire? Players that a year ago she was routining 6-0 6-1 on a weekly basis. Her ankles were absolutely done and she had to have surgery in both and sued Sergio Tacchini for it. She was 22 when she retired by the way, imagine if her body had hold up like Serena's, she obviously wouldn't have won 3 Slams a year every year but still, she would have won many more Slams, just check her record against other top players. Granted that 1997 had much easier competition for her than in other years, but again her record with the top players who were at her level back then is phenomenal. And 1997 still had much tougher opponents than 2009 or 2010


Okay I just had to let this out. I mean anybody who pretends to make Hingis look as some kind of opportunistic pusher who was blown away when the real competition began is just an ignorant. Besides, Hingis proved she was competition for close-to-peak Serena.

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Old Oct 4th, 2013, 12:28 PM   #2
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Re: "1997 was one of the weakest years ever duhhhh"

Lame. This didnt need a new thread.
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When will you learn that "pushers" never make it past the club level, let alone #1 on the WTA computer? Will it be too late?
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Old Oct 4th, 2013, 12:30 PM   #3
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Re: "1997 was one of the weakest years ever duhhhh"

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Lame. This didnt need a new thread.
So didn't 85% of the other threads in GM
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Old Oct 4th, 2013, 12:43 PM   #4
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Re: "1997 was one of the weakest years ever duhhhh"

Martina was amazing. Her statistics from 1997-2002 are thoroughly impressive. I am a huge fan.

But her ankles truly had nothing to do with her decline. She lost confidence. In 1997, she was beating everyone easier than in 1998. In 1998, the same is true for 1999. And so on.

Graf would've been slaughtered by Serena in 2002, PS.
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Old Oct 4th, 2013, 12:43 PM   #5
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Re: "1997 was one of the weakest years ever duhhhh"

Oh. And 2001 US Open was 'close-to-peak' Serena. 6-3 6-2.
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Old Oct 4th, 2013, 12:44 PM   #6
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Re: "1997 was one of the weakest years ever duhhhh"

Nostalgic much ?
Can't believe she filed Tacchini for $40 million btw.
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Old Oct 4th, 2013, 12:51 PM   #7
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Re: "1997 was one of the weakest years ever duhhhh"

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Oh. And 2001 US Open was 'close-to-peak' Serena. 6-3 6-2.
2001 was absolute peak Serena and Hingis barely beat Majoli at that tournament
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Old Oct 4th, 2013, 12:52 PM   #8
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Re: "1997 was one of the weakest years ever duhhhh"

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2001 was absolute peak Serena and Hingis barely beat Majoli at that tournament
2002*
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Old Oct 4th, 2013, 01:04 PM   #9
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Re: "1997 was one of the weakest years ever duhhhh"

It might not be the only reason, but the power players figuring her game out.

I mean, she was soundly beat by overweight Seles in 2002 US open, where she was bagelling Monica left and right the year before. I'm pretty sure that loss contributed in some way to her retirement.
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that is so disrespectful.... so disrespectful!
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Old Oct 4th, 2013, 01:08 PM   #10
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Re: "1997 was one of the weakest years ever duhhhh"

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Originally Posted by @danieln1 View Post
It might not be the only reason, but the power players figuring her game out.

I mean, she was soundly beat by overweight Seles in 2002 US open, where she was bagelling Monica left and right the year before. I'm pretty sure that loss contributed in some way to her retirement.
But that wasn't about Monica figuring her game out, that was about Martina not being able to move I mean after 6 years of getting constant beatdowns you don't figure how to beat someone
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Old Oct 4th, 2013, 01:23 PM   #11
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Re: "1997 was one of the weakest years ever duhhhh"

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Originally Posted by Geisha View Post
Martina was amazing. Her statistics from 1997-2002 are thoroughly impressive. I am a huge fan.

But her ankles truly had nothing to do with her decline. She lost confidence. In 1997, she was beating everyone easier than in 1998. In 1998, the same is true for 1999. And so on.

Graf would've been slaughtered by Serena in 2002, PS.
wtf? no way.
martina in 1999>>> martina in 1998

please talk about something you have an idea about, thanks
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Old Oct 4th, 2013, 01:23 PM   #12
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Re: "1997 was one of the weakest years ever duhhhh"

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Originally Posted by Sammo View Post
Honestly I'm tired of this argument, it wasn't Martina's fault that the 'top-tier' opponents were either in a mental slump like Capriati or didn't have enough experience to beat her even if they were her age like the sisters or slightly older like Mauresmo and even 4 years older like Davenport. And don't give me the "Graf was injured" thing, she wasn't injured in 1996 (one of her best years) and 15 year-old Martina still beat her at the semifinals of the Italian Open. Besides, there wouldn't have been any awesome 2002 for Serena if Graf had kept on playing and was injury-free like Serena is right now, so the injured Graf argument works in both ways too.

Honestly I can't even deal with these morons that say that she retired in 2002 because she "couldn't keep up with the power", first of all have you even seen the players she was losing to when she decided to retire? Players that a year ago she was routining 6-0 6-1 on a weekly basis. Her ankles were absolutely done and she had to have surgery in both and sued Sergio Tacchini for it. She was 22 when she retired by the way, imagine if her body had hold up like Serena's, she obviously wouldn't have won 3 Slams a year every year but still, she would have won many more Slams, just check her record against other top players. Granted that 1997 had much easier competition for her than in other years, but again her record with the top players who were at her level back then is phenomenal. And 1997 still had much tougher opponents than 2009 or 2010


Okay I just had to let this out. I mean anybody who pretends to make Hingis look as some kind of opportunistic pusher who was blown away when the real competition began is just an ignorant. Besides, Hingis proved she was competition for close-to-peak Serena.




So much anger , so much bitterness , so much hatred in one post

To answer your rant :

1) Her competition was immature, there is no way Hingis fans can weasel out of that argument.

2) Serena unlike Hingis was a much superior athlete and did not have a losing head to head versus Graf.

3) Unlike Graf Serena is winning slams in her 30's. So your argument that Graf was going to MATCH Serena's level in her 30's is JUST PLAIN SOUR GRAPES trying to diminish Serena's accomplishment rather than boosting Hingis'.

4) She did retire from tennis, because she could NO LONGER WIN SLAMS. Her ego would not allow her to admit it, so she concocted the whole ankles thing. By the way do you know the outcome of the lawsuit against Sergio Tachini

Interview with Martina step father and her agent.


Quote:
BLICK: Are really the shoes of the former sponsor Tacchini for that problem responsible?

MARIO WIDMER: We are dealing with a professional sport and the Tacchini-Problem has been solved. Both sides have agreed a composition and to maintain silence from both sides about it.

BLICK: Tacchini has paid a few nice dollars ,right?

MARIO WIDMER: Like i said "both sides maintain silence". And Martina is with her new Sponsor Adidas in good hands.

Considering her comeback her condition was not chronic at all.

5)I want to ask you why didnt she win multiple slam in a season post 1997 ?

6) Where was martina in 2009 and 2010 if the competiton was so weak. Her ban ended in early 2009. Still plenty of time for a comeback

7)She was not a pusher but she was forced to play defensive tennis because players with weapons could pin her way behind the baseline.

8) She was an oppurtunist in a way that she was at the right place at the right time. This was beneficial to her as she could amass slams at a rate unheard of for someone so young and damaging because it came all too easy and she never developed the skills of coping with competition.

7) Hingis was stupid and arrogant and had no sense of what was going around her. She could not see that the Williams sisters, Davenport, Capriati were all taller and stronger players than her, did she go to the gym to keep up, NO.

She kept using outdated Yonex frame and did not update her technique at all



All in All, she had a golden opportunity of starting a career in a spectacular way but didnt take advantage of it by adapting.

And don't even try to compare Serena to Hingis !!!
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Old Oct 4th, 2013, 01:25 PM   #13
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Re: "1997 was one of the weakest years ever duhhhh"

Quote:
Originally Posted by @danieln1 View Post
It might not be the only reason, but the power players figuring her game out.

I mean, she was soundly beat by overweight Seles in 2002 US open, where she was bagelling Monica left and right the year before. I'm pretty sure that loss contributed in some way to her retirement.
she just came back from surgeries to that match, if you saw the match live you will remember she was not martina herself, she couldnt move properly and couldnt play tennis, simply. i think there are a couple of games on youtube...you can watch them if so
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Old Oct 4th, 2013, 01:45 PM   #14
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Re: "1997 was one of the weakest years ever duhhhh"

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Originally Posted by Geisha View Post
But her ankles truly had nothing to do with her decline.
Don't you think Hingis would know if her own ankles were hurting?

Hingis was a wonderful player. Easily top twenty in the Open Era. If she'd stayed healthy, she might have won another couple slams But she was no more Serena's equal than Venus or Henin turned out to be.
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Old Oct 4th, 2013, 03:07 PM   #15
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Re: "1997 was one of the weakest years ever duhhhh"

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Originally Posted by Adi1987 View Post

7) Hingis was stupid and arrogant and had no sense of what was going around her. She could not see that the Williams sisters, Davenport, Capriati were all taller and stronger players than her, did she go to the gym to keep up, NO.

She kept using outdated Yonex frame and did not update her technique at all



All in All, she had a golden opportunity of starting a career in a spectacular way but didnt take advantage of it by adapting.

And don't even try to compare Serena to Hingis !!!:
lol:
Pretty much sums up 1 - 6.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcana View Post
Don't you think Hingis would know if her own ankles were hurting?

Hingis was a wonderful player. Easily top twenty in the Open Era. If she'd stayed healthy, she might have won another couple slams But she was no more Serena's equal than Venus or Henin turned out to be.
In fact, LESS so.
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