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Old Sep 19th, 2013, 11:06 PM   #31
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Re: ***2014 New WTA ranking point distribution***

I can't wait to see someone do a comparison of top 100 right now under current system v old system.
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Old Sep 19th, 2013, 11:06 PM   #32
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Will this actually make a difference? Can anyone with time to spare apply it to the current rankings, to see if much changes?


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Old Sep 19th, 2013, 11:08 PM   #33
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Re: ***2014 New WTA ranking point distribution***

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Originally Posted by Rolling-Thunder View Post
Under the new system what would the current breakdown be for the top 4? It does not look like that big of a change. 100 points less for a GS finalist or 120 points less for a semifinalist. I do like the marginal advantage that goes to the GS winner.
Williams 12080 (12260)
Azarenka 9120 (9505)
Sharapova 7351 (7866)
Radwanska 5730 (6335)

I maybe out by 5-10 points, because some of the numbers don't round, and I've rounded them how I think they will be. I also have not edited YEC points, because it is not clear how this affects YEC points, if at all.
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Old Sep 19th, 2013, 11:09 PM   #34
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Re: ***2014 New WTA ranking point distribution***

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However at the lower end of the rankings, for players outside the top 20 or 30 this could make a big difference and and a lot of players will find it easier to pick up points playing lower quality tournaments than playing the big events. This really will encourage what is termed "vulturing" in this forum to a large degree.
But that happened in the past and will happen in the future. All these Spanish vultures in the 90s winning small Tier IV/V Torrens Valero, Leon García, entering the top 30, Muller not too long ago, Hsieh more recently...some things never change
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Old Sep 19th, 2013, 11:11 PM   #35
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Re: ***2014 New WTA ranking point distribution***

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Originally Posted by spiceboy View Post
GS semis = 780 points, still more than Premier Mandatory (650) or Premier 5 (580) finalists but not quite as the winner (1000/900). Fair enough I'd say.

I can see is arguable to award more points to a Premier Mandatory winner than a Grand Slam semifinalist (although I do agree with the change) but I don't think it is such a crazy idea. I don't think a player who loses in Melbourne semis should get more points than the one winning Miami, to be honest.
All this talk about Grand Slam semis really is missing the point though. Fact is, rankings at the upper end of the scale are not going to change much, if at all, as the result of these alterations. Where we will see the big changes is outside the top 50. And I do not believe these changes will be ones that reward the best player, by that I mean the player who is best able to play at a higher level. The players who will be rewarded are the one's who are commonly refered in this forum as the "vultures". These adjustments are for the Jiri Vesely's of the WTA.
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Old Sep 19th, 2013, 11:13 PM   #36
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Re: ***2014 New WTA ranking point distribution***

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Because this system gives out less points to everyone bar the winner of events. Therefore if you are defending lots of points early in the season you are playing for less points. Meanwhile players with lots of points at the end of this season, will keep those enhanced points on their ranking for a longer period of time.
That is correct. But hey, that was bound to happen with every kind of change for better or worse. There was always going to be a first year to readjust to the new rankings and lots of players (watch out for those lucky ones in the 200s randomly winning a Q round in Grand Slams in 2013) are going to suffer.
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Old Sep 19th, 2013, 11:13 PM   #37
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Re: ***2014 New WTA ranking point distribution***

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Originally Posted by spiceboy View Post
But that happened in the past and will happen in the future. All these Spanish vultures in the 90s winning small Tier IV/V Torrens Valero, Leon García, entering the top 30, Muller not too long ago, Hsieh more recently...some things never change
This new system will make it much much easier for such players and we will see many more examples of this. Players such as those will achieve far higher rankings under this new system than they were ever able to in the past.
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Old Sep 19th, 2013, 11:19 PM   #38
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Re: ***2014 New WTA ranking point distribution***

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Originally Posted by dsanders06 View Post
Are the Tier 2 points changing as well? Does this mean that making the final in one of the really strong Tier2s like Sydney or Stuttgart (to achieve which you would probably need to beat atleast one top 10 player) will get you less points than winning Bad Gastein?
No. "Tier II" finalists will get 305 points.

But if you want to manipulate, let's both of us to manipulate. I could also compare Tier II Paris to International Linz

As usual, there will be strong and weak Premiers and strong and weak Internationals. And it is not going to change.
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Old Sep 19th, 2013, 11:20 PM   #39
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Re: ***2014 New WTA ranking point distribution***

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Will this actually make a difference? Can anyone with time to spare apply it to the current rankings, to see if much changes?


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At the top end of the rankings it won't make any real difference. But as you go down the ranking it will make a bigger and bigger difference. For players outside the top 50 the difference could be quite substantial in some cases. For a player who regularly wins one or two matches in the top events but rarely more but who doesn't like to play lesser events they will be hit hard by this new structure. For players who are happiest playing ITFs and weak Internationals they will be richly rewarded for their lack of ambition.
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Old Sep 19th, 2013, 11:21 PM   #40
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Re: ***2014 New WTA ranking point distribution***

i dont like this new way to distribute points, they clearly tried to copy ATP system...

it will also be very hard for low ranked players to get in the top100 and after top 50 and so on...it just freezes the ranking...

i really dont like it...
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Old Sep 19th, 2013, 11:25 PM   #41
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Re: ***2014 New WTA ranking point distribution***

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i dont like this new way to distribute points, they clearly tried to copy ATP system...

it will also be very hard for low ranked players to get in the top100 and after top 50 and so on...it just freezes the ranking...

i really dont like it...
That's not actually true. If you are able to be successful on the ITF circuit you will get into the top 100 faster with these new rankings than you would otherwise. The fact that the big events will reward far few points in the early rounds won't be an issue for the young up and comer. They won't even need to play any big events to get into the top 100.
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Old Sep 19th, 2013, 11:27 PM   #42
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Re: ***2014 New WTA ranking point distribution***

The problem with these points is they further compound the bad scheduling of the calendar. It will inflate certain premier events which get weak fields year after year.

Plus you have other issues like all these 125k's and new internationals appearing in Asia which gives an advantage to players based in these countries. You will end up with players like the famous case of Yen-Hsun Lu in the ATP. (You could argue the WTA want this though).

It also hurts top 10 players who are slumping further. Because they can't play internationals, and are now posting less points week after week.
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Old Sep 19th, 2013, 11:28 PM   #43
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Re: ***2014 New WTA ranking point distribution***

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...besides free luxury hotel, free food and free transportation plus an increased prize money from last year in WTA Q and overall better conditions. Life is hard and expensive in those ITF compared to the magic world of WTA
Are international's prize money being increased to $250k next year or did I dream that?
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Old Sep 19th, 2013, 11:31 PM   #44
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Re: ***2014 New WTA ranking point distribution***

Quote:
That's not actually true. If you are able to be successful on the ITF circuit you will get into the top 100 faster with these new rankings than you would otherwise. The fact that the big events will reward far few points in the early rounds won't be an issue for the young up and comer. They won't even need to play any big events to get into the top 100.
well, i was talking about WTA. it would be tougher. Of course then players as you said may swtich to ITF : will they be willing to do it ? And if that would happend as you said, it would be a stupid move : forcing players to play ITF instead of WTA to climb the ranking...

again, id ont like it.
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Old Sep 19th, 2013, 11:33 PM   #45
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Re: ***2014 New WTA ranking point distribution***

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It also hurts top 10 players who are slumping further. Because they can't play internationals, and are now posting less points week after week.
Good point. Up till now, playing Internationals has never been worth much for a top 10 player. The fact that top 10 players could only play 2 such events a year wasn't a big deal and with rankings only counting one's best 18 events often even winning such events meant little to a top tenner's ranking.

But now for a badly slumping top 10er, the fact that they are only able to play two Internationals a year could be quite detrimental to them in certain cases.
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