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Old Sep 19th, 2013, 10:24 PM   #16
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Re: ***2014 New WTA ranking point distribution***

Under the new system what would the current breakdown be for the top 4? It does not look like that big of a change. 100 points less for a GS finalist or 120 points less for a semifinalist. I do like the marginal advantage that goes to the GS winner.
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Old Sep 19th, 2013, 10:31 PM   #17
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Re: ***2014 New WTA ranking point distribution***

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Originally Posted by Rolling-Thunder View Post
Under the new system what would the current breakdown be for the top 4? It does not look like that big of a change. 100 points less for a GS finalist or 120 points less for a semifinalist. I do like the marginal advantage that goes to the GS winner.
There isn't going to be any huge difference at the top of the rankings. Those players who were in the top 5 under the old system will still find themselves more or less where they were under this new system. Only difference will be that the the gaps at the very top will be larger. So Serena will have a bigger margin over Azarenka who will have a bigger margin over Sharapova etc. But the places won't change.

However at the lower end of the rankings, for players outside the top 20 or 30 this could make a big difference and and a lot of players will find it easier to pick up points playing lower quality tournaments than playing the big events. This really will encourage what is termed "vulturing" in this forum to a large degree.
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Old Sep 19th, 2013, 10:35 PM   #18
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Re: ***2014 New WTA ranking point distribution***

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Why is that?
Because this system gives out less points to everyone bar the winner of events. Therefore if you are defending lots of points early in the season you are playing for less points. Meanwhile players with lots of points at the end of this season, will keep those enhanced points on their ranking for a longer period of time.
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Old Sep 19th, 2013, 10:39 PM   #19
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Re: ***2014 New WTA ranking point distribution***

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Because this system gives out less points to everyone bar the winner of events. Therefore if you are defending lots of points early in the season you are playing for less points. Meanwhile players with lots of points at the end of this season, will keep those enhanced points on their ranking for a longer period of time.
Absolutely correct.
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Old Sep 19th, 2013, 10:43 PM   #20
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Re: ***2014 New WTA ranking point distribution***

780 points for a GS semifinal isn't enough. I understand that the winner of a P5 tournament still gets 900 points and the winner of PM gets 1000 points? If so, it diminshes the importance of the GS tournaments for everyone except the winner.
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Old Sep 19th, 2013, 10:49 PM   #21
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Re: ***2014 New WTA ranking point distribution***

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780 points for a GS semifinal isn't enough. I understand that the winner of a P5 tournament still gets 900 points and the winner of PM gets 1000 points? If so, it diminshes the importance of the GS tournaments for everyone except the winner.
That's a good point too.
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Old Sep 19th, 2013, 10:49 PM   #22
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Re: ***2014 New WTA ranking point distribution***

Very bad changes. I can't understand why some of the very same people who (rightly, imo) have said there isn't enough emphasis on the Slams are cheering in this thread about them getting smaller rewards in the rankings
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Old Sep 19th, 2013, 10:51 PM   #23
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Re: ***2014 New WTA ranking point distribution***

Are the Tier 2 points changing as well? Does this mean that making the final in one of the really strong Tier2s like Sydney or Stuttgart (to achieve which you would probably need to beat atleast one top 10 player) will get you less points than winning Bad Gastein?
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Old Sep 19th, 2013, 10:54 PM   #24
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Re: ***2014 New WTA ranking point distribution***

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Originally Posted by Shvedbarilescu View Post
Totally disagree. Old system rewarded consistency. This system rewards getting hot for one or two tournaments. The result of this system is that players will end up getting overranked
If you only get hot in one or two tournaments a year it is not going to make a big difference. International winners/finalists diference in 2013 is 80 points. In 2014 will be 100 points. Honestly, changes are not going to be so dramatic. Even in Grand Slams in 2013 (2000/1400) and 2014 (2000/1300) difference is insignificant. Plus I don't see the problem in rewarding a bit more to THE WINNER, either if it is a Grand Slam or a $10K. Being the last one standing should make a difference in my opinion, and it is not like the difference from 2013 is going to be so drastic.

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This forum goes on and on about "vulturing". Well with this new ranking distribution, "vulturing" will be that much more viable. This new point distribution will reward players who regularly go deep in ITF events and Internationals rather than players who consistently win one or two matches in Premiers, Premier 5s and Premier Mandatories.
Again, I see no problem in rewarding the winner. And that would encourage players in the 11-30 rankings to play more Internationals. WTA needs quality players in their fields and some small tournaments entry lists are beyond pathetic.
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Old Sep 19th, 2013, 10:58 PM   #25
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Re: ***2014 New WTA ranking point distribution***

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780 points for a GS semifinal isn't enough. I understand that the winner of a P5 tournament still gets 900 points and the winner of PM gets 1000 points? If so, it diminshes the importance of the GS tournaments for everyone except the winner.
Precisely. It actually diminishes the importance of all big events for everyone except the winner.

I know posters have been calling for point distribution like this for sometime because they like to see the winners of events heavily rewarded. But what this does is it means going deep in a small event becomes more valuable than winning a match in an important event.

For those of you who think this new point system is such a great idea I want you to do something. Take a look at the results of Jiri Vesely. http://www.itftennis.com/procircuit/...erID=100124174

This is a guy on the ATP tour. Except he is not really on the ATP tour. He pretty much only plays challengers. He hasn't actually won a match on the ATP tour in his entire career. In fact as of 6 months ago he had only won 2 matches in his career on the Challenger circuit. Yeah, prior to the last 6 months he was getting his points from 15K and 10K ITF events. Mr Vesely is currently ranked 81 in the ATP rankings.

Next year, the WTA will start getting their own Mr Veselys. Isn't that exciting?
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Old Sep 19th, 2013, 11:02 PM   #26
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Re: ***2014 New WTA ranking point distribution***

About time the Q for Internationals was raised a bit, there's like basically no incentive to play them right now as you can easily just go win 2 matches in a weak 25k challenger and get the same points. Hopefully this will stack up the WTA qualifying draws a little more not have them always filled with doubles specialists and byes.
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Old Sep 19th, 2013, 11:03 PM   #27
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Re: ***2014 New WTA ranking point distribution***

Quote:
Originally Posted by crystal ball View Post
780 points for a GS semifinal isn't enough. I understand that the winner of a P5 tournament still gets 900 points and the winner of PM gets 1000 points? If so, it diminshes the importance of the GS tournaments for everyone except the winner.
GS semis = 780 points, still more than Premier Mandatory (650) or Premier 5 (580) finalists but not quite as the winner (1000/900). Fair enough I'd say.

I can see is arguable to award more points to a Premier Mandatory winner than a Grand Slam semifinalist (although I do agree with the change) but I don't think it is such a crazy idea. I don't think a player who loses in Melbourne semis should get more points than the one winning Miami, to be honest.
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Old Sep 19th, 2013, 11:04 PM   #28
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Re: ***2014 New WTA ranking point distribution***

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Originally Posted by Shvedbarilescu View Post
Precisely. It actually diminishes the importance of all big events for everyone except the winner.

I know posters have been calling for point distribution like this for sometime because they like to see the winners of events heavily rewarded. But what this does is it means going deep in a small event becomes more valuable than winning a match in an important event.

For those of you who think this new point system is such a great idea I want you to do something. Take a look at the results of Jiri Vesely. http://www.itftennis.com/procircuit/...erID=100124174

This is a guy on the ATP tour. Except he is not really on the ATP tour. He pretty much only plays challengers. He hasn't actually won a match on the ATP tour in his entire career. In fact as of 6 months ago he had only won 2 matches in his career on the Challenger circuit. Yeah, prior to the last 6 months he was getting his points from 15K and 10K ITF events. Mr Vesely is currently ranked 81 in the ATP rankings.

Next year, the WTA will start getting their own Mr Veselys. Isn't that exciting?
I'm quite shocked how much I'm agreeing with you in this thread There does seem to have been a strange school of thought on TF lately that winning titles and title counts (no matter what those tournaments are) are the be-all-and-end-all... I've noticed it when people try and denigrate Stephens with the fact that she's never won a title, but that's a totally arbitrary statistic when her result at the Australian Open was bigger than 90% of the titles she could win.

Making the semis or final at a big event >>>> winning a tiny tournament with a weak field. Or atleast it should be.
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Old Sep 19th, 2013, 11:05 PM   #29
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Re: ***2014 New WTA ranking point distribution***

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And that would encourage players in the 11-30 rankings to play more Internationals. WTA needs quality players in their fields and some small tournaments entry lists are beyond pathetic.
Yes, smaller events should get better draws hopefully as a result of this, that would be a positive. But I wouldn't be surprised if that didn't come at the expense of the bigger events on the tour getting significantly worse draws. Players ranked outside the top 20 will often consider it more in their best interest to play smaller events than waste their time playing Premier 5 events for instance.

And yes, you are right these changes aren't not for the most part going to have huge change on players rankings but the change that is going to be made is not a positive one at all. It is a change that encourages players to be less ambitious by playing smaller events.
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Old Sep 19th, 2013, 11:06 PM   #30
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Re: ***2014 New WTA ranking point distribution***

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About time the Q for Internationals was raised a bit, there's like basically no incentive to play them right now
...besides free luxury hotel, free food and free transportation plus an increased prize money from last year in WTA Q and overall better conditions. Life is hard and expensive in those ITF compared to the magic world of WTA
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