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Old Jan 12th, 2002, 09:22 AM   #31
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Not bored at all ball change-I'm learning form your posts and having fun!

GoSandrine, when Tauziat mentioned "beasties" in her book, she was talking about a TYPE, not Sylvia herself. In Tauziat's eyes she herself is a "beastie". The opposite type is a "beauty". Among our 80's ladies Evert, Bonder, and Temesvai were the "beauties" while Hanika and Martina were "beastie" types. When the press writes about beauties dresses and hairstyles are written about, while beasties get attention for having big muscles.
Not everyone thinks this way, but a lot of the public and press still do.
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Old Jan 12th, 2002, 09:29 AM   #32
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tennis books

I also read 'Passing Shots' and 'Ladies of the Court' many years ago. Enjoyed both for different reasons. Pam Shriver's sense of humour was a pleasant surprise given her generally surly on court demeanor. The Mewshaw book was controversial in some aspects but had the ring of authenticity to it as I recall. Another book on the pro-tennis tours of that era was by John Feinstein, "Hard Courts" is one of the best sports books I've ever read. Didn't know that Hana Mandlikova had witten a book. What an enigmatic player she was. Anyone know the title of the book? Cool thread new balls pls That was a fun time in tennis.
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Old Jan 12th, 2002, 09:36 AM   #33
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Rollo, I hear ya.

Sylvia definitely was muscular but I didn't think overly so. Bud Collins did affectionately compare her to a valquiri (sp?), or one of those German opera singers.

I sure as hell wouldn't want to be included in the "beastie" category if I were lady though.
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Old Jan 12th, 2002, 12:14 PM   #34
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Thanks for the interest in the thread guys. I am having so much fun that I could not resist logging on again. Rollo, thanks for the research on Lisa Bonder. I knew that she beat Chris. Chris also lost to Rafella Reggi a couple of times, and Barbara Paulus!

Roscoe, I have heard tha Hard Court is good from another sources. I'll add it to the list of books that I am dying to get



For all you Hanika fans:

"Five months earlier I won the biggest title of my career so far, the 1981 Fench Open Championship.. Now, for the first time, I can tell you the astounding sequel to my 6-2 6-4 victory over west germany's Silvia Hanika......

The German tennis federation wrote to the ITF asking them to investgate what I drank on court during that match. The inference was crystal clear: they suspected me of drug taking.

It was a ludircous suggestion.....I was furious that anyone should even imply that I would resort to taking outside agents...to win."

Hana beat Chris in one semi , and Sylvia beat Martina in the other.

This is the serve that Hana dishes up to Helena Sukova in the book:

"To be honest, I do not have a good relationship with Mr Suk, or his daughter Helena......Helena is 3 years younger than me, and when she was beginning her career I tried to help her.... it was a friendship not destined to last. I flet she envied my poaition as number one in Czech, and was jealous because , more of less, I did what I want, and she was governed by the restrictions that were imposed by her father's position in the Federation.

After I became an Australian citizen a journalist in Paris sugessted that Helena had become number 1 in Czech now that I had left. Apparently, Helena said that she was number 1 before I left home. It is that kind of dishonesty that I dislike. The fact of the matter is that I have won 12 of our 13 matches, and until I stopped playing for six months .... i was always ranked higher than her.....
....... a local journalist interviewed me.......during the conversation he warned me to be careful of Sukova....... Helena had accussed me of not warming up for that doubles match at the US indoors (where Hana partnered helena) and claimed that I had not tried too hard to win the match"

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Old Jan 12th, 2002, 02:38 PM   #35
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I'm enjoying reading this post! I was actually going to ask if Hana mentioned the icy relationship she had with Sukova. Sukova never seemed to be too warm with Martina either. I always thought this was a two way thing really because Helena seemed bitter that she ( surprisingly ) never took a singles Slam title unlike the other two whereas I think both Martina and Hana felt threatened by Helena's ability. I kinda went off Helena after her sour comments about Claudia Kohde-Kilsch and then later Jana Novotna.
Lisa Bonder obviously had ability from her results but she seemed like she could have done more had she put the extra miles in on the practice court. As for Bettina Bunge, I think she could have made at least 1 Wimbledon final as her game just flowed on the grass. I remember 1 year when she lost a tussle to Navratilova 7-6 6-3 but had been robbed of the opening set when on setpoint she had driven Martina right out of the court and Martina popped up a weak defence shot. Bettina was all set to put away an easy volley into the empty court when the ballboy, thinking Martina's shot wasn't going to clear the net, ran on to court and caught the ball. The point was replayed and thankfully ( for me ) Martina won that point.
I was always a bit surprised by the successful 1987 doubles clay season partnership of Navratilova/Temesvari. Andrea had the big groundies to set up Martina's immaculate volleys but I never would have thought they would have teamed up. Glad they did though.
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Old Jan 12th, 2002, 06:00 PM   #36
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Wow, it's good to read this thread. I used to watch most of these players towards the end of their careers. And they were such a catty bunch too. This new generation have nothing on those girls. I'm gonna try and check out these books. Meow.
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Old Jan 12th, 2002, 07:45 PM   #37
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http://www.half.com has both Passing Shots and Ladies of the Court available. Hana's bio is not. Half.com is a great site to buy/sell books, videos etc for low prices! I ordered both!
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Old Jan 13th, 2002, 03:40 AM   #38
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Hiah everyone what a great thread……. Hi Rollo

Hi ball change pls
The 80’s was the era for me.... I follow Aussie tennis and well we actually had some players in the top 10 at that time!!!!!! I loved Turnbull, Balestrat, Anne Minter, Liz Smylie and had fondness for Maleeva, Zina, and liked Hanika’s game…

Here are some interesting little events that spring to mind during this era……

Hana also took Helena took task in her book for not staying with the Fed Cup team in a hotel in Prague, instead she stayed at home…. Which hana said affected team unity.

Hana’s description of Chris Everts ability to manipulate the media was a highlight of the book for me. Mewshaws book also highlighted something similar.

Hana admits playing Wendy Turnbull in a match once and thought ‘she won’t cause too many problems’ and then got wiped…..


I always though there was a bit of needle between Shriver and Wendy Turnbull particularly in the years after their epic Sydney Open match in 81? where Wendy saved 8 match points and won the title. Pam always seemed to have a hissy fit whenever Wendy beat her and infact seemed to be insulted whenever a lower ranked player stopped her from facing either Chris or Martina. Wendy def Pam in the US Open one year and said to Wendy at the net: ‘I hope you play this well against Martina’. Then to the media: Frankly for womens tennis I don’t think this going to be a great match’ and ‘Wendy had all the luck’..

Hana in the same tournament lost to Bassett and said something like: ‘ she can play without pressure because her family is rich and doesn’t matter if she wins or loses. Carling replied: it doesn’t matter if you’re rich or just have a penny if you love the game.

Hanika and the German girls really didn’t seem to get along. Hanika once beat a young Graf and said: people were saying that she is no. 1 in Germany and I had to put them str8’ and ‘ there is a lot of jealousy between the German girls’. Hanika I saw a few times before her injury timeout in the 80’s but I can remember her serving yips to a point where she just tossed the ball up to serve with the racquet in backscratch, and the many misshits because of the spin she put on the ball. But she got many big wins on the board.

Kodhe-Kilsch and Graf and families didn’t get along. Claudias family took offence to Peter Graf continually giving V for victory and no. 1 finger signs to Steffi when she beat Claudia in a German tournament, which basically made her German no. 1.

Sukova basically dumped Kodhe-Kilsch for a doubles partner because she got very nervous on court. Picked up Novotna who she dumped a while later because of her oncourt behavior. However Jana thought that it was because she was getting better singles results and Helena was jealous. They both chased Gigi Fernandez for doubles and Jana ended up snaring Gigi to make their relationship even more strained.

The Garrison and McNeil relationship soured after Lori started winning matches also…. tho they seemed to patch things up, tho it was a complicated mixture of reasons I think for their fallout. I caught Zina play Virginia Wade at a match at Wimbledon in which Virigina was in her late 30’s early 40’s and Zina choked so badly and lost. Zina was in the top 10 at the time, Wade near retirement. Zina was upset that a US psychologist used a tape of the match to demonstrate someone choking.

Jo Durie during the Aussie Open in the 80’s said when Martina was blitzing everyone: I think I could take her in this tournament. Even after being smashed many times previous by Martina. Jo copped a barrage of flak by the top players for these comments. Jo came out and played brilliant (people say it was one of the best displays of tennis at Kooyong) 1st set in which Martina was stunned. An over nite rain delay settled Martina and she eventually won 46 63 64.

On an Aussie front it seemed that our girls didn’t care for each other either!!! Turnbull took offence to Evonne Cawley for some reason I can’t recall and never seemed to play Fed Cup together. Wendy had Judy Dalton dumped as Fed Cup captain because she was coaching Kathy Jordan (who was a significant singles and doubles rival at the time) and then Wendy took over herself. Wendy was then dumped a few years later because she wasn’t available to the Aussie girls during the year, helped by player grumblings particularly Smylie and Nicole Bradtke. It seemed that even tho Wendy and Smylie played doubles together their relationship wasn’t that harmonious. Apparently Wendy seemed to favor the Minter sisters over Smylie during Fed Cup duties. Don’t think Wendy and Dianne Fromholtz were the best of friends either.

I remember 1st seeing Steffi Graf play Wendy Turnbull at the Aussie open when she was 13!!! She lost 64 64 but even then people had her marked for greatness.

Last but not least Helen Kelesi, one of my faves for her feistiness and on-court attitude. She lost a match in the qtrs of a French Open match to Sabatini on a close line call in which she argued for ages and then said: they just didn’t want a Graf vs. Kelesi semi final. I saw her play a Fed Cup match in Australia against Sukova in which she was arguing over line calls with the ball clearly out!!! Helena thumped her seemingly because of being annoyed by the constant arguing and previous losses to Helen where the same probably happened!!! Manuela Maleeva was once asked who don’t you like playing, she replied: Helen Kelesi, it’s not that she’s a good player, it’s because I can’t stand her. I don’t think Helen had many friends on the tour.

That’s all that comes to mind at the moment… sorry if I’ve babbled too much……. OMG names from the past Rehe, Bonder, Temesvari, Bassett, Rinaldi, Horvarth… people say the tour has young phenoms now!!!!
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Old Jan 13th, 2002, 04:18 AM   #39
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after reading this threat I realy understand why Steffi`s father protected her so bad at the start of her career and was bashed for it so bad(this was before he lost the ground himself). How could a 13,14 year old survive this world of bitches otherwise?
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Old Jan 13th, 2002, 04:57 AM   #40
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C'mon Irma, the tour wasn't all THAT bad, we're just dishing out the dirt because its fun. Todays group can be bitchy too, and even Steffi had her bitchy moments. Peter's "protection" made her more enemies than friends, just like Richard Williams.

Great stories louloubelle! I never realized Sukova had this side to her. Between you ,mirjanafan and ball change I have a whole new picture of Helena. I suspect Helena never could have warmed to Martina. Martina was justified in defecting, but her defection "tainted" Helena's mother Vera. There is no doubt the communists made life hell for Vera for"letting" Martina defect. Vera probably had to fight just to let other Czech women go out on tour. Greed won out in the end over fears of more defections, since the association collected most of the prize money. , but Vera only caught the anger of the communists while Martina had chances to train and improve that Vera never did. No wonder there was no love lost between Helena and Martina.

BTW, does anyone know when did Hana started keeping most of her paychecks?

I can tell you at least ONE reason why Wendy had issues with Evonne. Evonne was of course Australia's sunshine girl who could do no wrong, and she often took appearence money to play in the Aussie Open and other events. Wendy had the guts to criticize Goolie in the press for it. With Evonne hoarding up all the attention, Wendy may have been a bit envious. As a "beastie", Wendy was less favored than glam girls Evonne and Dianne Fromholtz or pixie Kerry Reid.

Dianne sure did give Chris Evert fits with her booming lefty forehand. She beat Evert at least 4 times when Chris was in her prime and then dropped off after 1980. What happened?
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Old Jan 13th, 2002, 05:12 AM   #41
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I never realised there was so much friction between the Aussie girls.
I think Helena Sukova's main problem was jealousy and resentment of other people's successes. She had a good career obviously but was too mentally fragile. There was no reason with her game that she should not have been able to beat Graf in Graf's heyday.
As for Sabatini, well she did get a hard time from other players but I always remember Kathy Rinaldi being a friendly face on the tour for her.
As for the regular tour players who never quite made it I always admire Patty Fendick for her heart and Elise Burgin was always fun. In fact I'd say Elise is my favourite commentator now. There was a funny stry about Elise once when she was playing against Bonnie Gadusek. Elise was playing in a town where she had a lot of non-tennis community friends and they all decided to come down to see what Elise did for a living. Anyway during changeovers and between points these friends who knew nothing about tennis where trying to start conversations with Elise who eventually had to say to them " Look guys I am trying to play a tennis match here" with a huge smile on her face.
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Old Jan 13th, 2002, 05:51 AM   #42
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Great booksite Meesh. But, alas, one has to be a resident of the USA to purchase. I'll find an international site yet.
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Old Jan 13th, 2002, 08:16 AM   #43
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Old Jan 13th, 2002, 10:09 AM   #44
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Amazing

The amount of hatred towards Martina that still exists is amazing. Now she is being blamed for defecting and causing Vera Sukova grief????? What next? Martina was responsible for Vera's death, because if she hadn't defected, Vera would not have died in 1982 of a brain tumor...

For those interested in the truth, here is the truth. After Martina's defection, the Czechoslovak Federation, frightened at the thought of more defections, gave their players "MORE" freedom and allowed them to keep "MORE" of their prize money, and within a few years, they could keep "ALL" of it. Players were no longer chaperoned and forced to play where the Czechoslovak Federation wanted them to play. Hana was able to hire a "coach" in 1980 - and a non-Czech coach at that; she travelled with her coach and father and mapped up her own schedule. Ditto for the other top Czechs who broke into the top ranks.

If Vera Sukova was supposedly "blamed" for Martina's defection, she would not have been allowed to continue as Czech Federation Cup captain. She did meet with Martina after her defection to try to convince her to change her mind (late-1975) but they got nowhere. Personally, Vera must have been sad to see her country's #1 player leave, but given Martina's personality, it was common knowledge in Czechoslovakia that among the tennis players, if anyone defected, the first one to go would be Martina. Vlasta Vopickova, longtime Czech #1 after Vera and the sister of Jan Kodes, has said that Martina used to be like a fish in water whenever they travelled outside the Communist bloc countries while most of the other players were homesick and terrified.

About Helena, of course, she and Martina were not best buddies, but their relationship was never as bad as things were between Helena and Hana. Their matches were always tension-ridden and Martina has acknowledged that it was hard not to get caught up with all the history their families had shared - Martina's grandmother, Agnes Semanska, once beat Helena's grandmother in the Czech National's. And then Vera coached Martina while Helena used to ballgirl for Martina on occasion in Sparta Prague.

And in 1999, Martina and Helena participated in a special exhibition in Prague for the benefit of the Stromovka park. It was a mixed doubles match with Martina & Jan Kodes against Helena & Jiri Hrebec (uncle of current player, Sandra Kleinova). Martina & Jan won, but I remember the pictures and Martina and Helena were joking around and didn't appear frosty in any way.

Now, getting back to the subject at hand. Michael Mewshaw's book is a very good one - well-written and full of interesting information. He presents a very "REAL" account of the women's tour and his insights were definitely appreciated. This is one of my favorite parts of the book that deals with the press reaction following Martina's Magic Johnson comments in 1991 during the Virginia Slims Ch'ships.

Quote:
But most members of the tribal village of tennis responded favorably to Navratilova's remarks. USA Today quoted Pam Shriver as saying it was "terrific. She did it in true Martina style - open and honest."

Mary Carillo, once a player, now a TV commentator, said, "Martina has always had to suffer the effects of her sexuality. I don't think anything she said wasn't right on the money."

Chris Evert's reaction was more muted: "I had mixed feelings about what she said, but she's right."

Evert's "mixed feelings" prompted some journalistic snickering, none of which, of course, ever made it into print. Throughout her career, Chris had been the Teflon Princess of Pro Tennis; no sordid stories ever stuck to her. While Navratilova had had to endure incessant speculation and bad press about her sex life, Chris had enjoyed a free ride. Evert had traveled the world for eight years as a single girl, then for six years as a married woman, part of which time she was estranged from John Lloyd. She had traveled as a divorcee and finally as a remarried woman. Her name had been linked with a rock star, an actor, a TV commentator, and President Ford's son, Jack. Yet she was always described in the press as "dating," not having sex; she was "involved" with men, never sleeping with them. When Navratilova took up with a mother of two, the headlines screamed of "sex orgies"; when Evert, before her divorce was final, took up with Any Mill, a man still married to his first wife, they were said to be "having a relationship."

Privately reporters pointed out the irony in the current flap. Navratilova was at low risk for AIDS, yet she had felt compelled to speak out about the double standard. Meanwhile, Chris Evert, one of the tour's truly liberated heterosexuals, managed to express no more than "mixed feelings."

Many reporters regarded Chris as a phony, a woman wildly different from her image. Yet they seldom acknowledged their complicity in the creation of that illusion. It wasn't Evert's responsibility to publicize her faults; it wasn't her role to present a more realistic picture of the way a wealthy, successful, and attractive woman athlete lived her lift. That was the press' job and it was their failure - their own phoniness - that had helped cast Martina into such an unflattering light by depicting her longtime rival in a false light.
Michael Mewshaw will forever have my gratitude for those paragrpahs alone.
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Old Jan 13th, 2002, 11:27 AM   #45
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Zummi, where do you read "hatred" for Martina into anything I wrote? Did I not write, "Martina was justified" in defecting?
Gosh, I believe I did Life is often more than simple black or white, right or wrong. I was suggesting that circumstances made it unlikely Martina and Helena would ever be close, circumstances beyond their control.

I respect your knowledge of tennis and don't expect you(or others) to agree with me. What I DO expect is NOT to be labeled a "hater" and to get a bit of respect. Interesting how you didn't step in and accuse me of being a Graf hater for writing Steffi could be bitchy at times.

As I said, Martina was justified in defecting, but her defection DID cause Vera problems. Martina herself says so in her book, Martina. Page 65, "Years later, I would cause Vera lots of problems because of my defection while she was the national coach. Until her death a few years ago, we would greet each other and exchange small talk, but things could never be the same after my defection". That's direct from Martina's pen Zummi.
Debate her on the matter, not me.

Page 134--"I'm sure she(Vera) and Jan Kodes and a few other officials got some flak for me leaving the country, but it was obvious they hadn't known about my plans".

That's direct from Martina's pen Zummi.
Debate her on the matter, not me
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