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Old Aug 27th, 2013, 11:46 AM   #391
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Re: US open Petra is playing Misaki Doi, Petko is looming

Quote:
Originally Posted by venusinfurs View Post
On Halep I agree with you.

The first 4 games Petra played really, really well apart from not doing better on BP, maybe not GOATra but you know what i mean when i say that, especially in comparison to what came after. Maybe i should be more conservative with my use of GOATra but when she plays well so rarely it can seem like GOATra when really its just good play, and at a level she should be at for an entire match.

I've been a fan of Petra since the Semi-final defeat to Serena at wimbledon in 2010 so don't say i didn't know who she was until a couple of months ago... i follow and know more about her now is all.
Hmmm...do as you want, of course, but yes, I really think you should. Besides, playing three or four good games means nothing when it comes down to analyzing a whole match or the current general shape of a particular player; I mean, Sharapova also played three or four good games in the first set when she lost to Sloane.

Really ? I stand corrected then; it's just that some of your posts made me believe that wasn't the case. Your point is graciously and duly taken.
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Old Aug 27th, 2013, 12:02 PM   #392
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Re: US open Petra is playing Misaki Doi, Petko is looming

Quote:
Originally Posted by venusinfurs View Post
On Halep I agree with you.

The first 4 games Petra played really, really well apart from not doing better on BP, maybe not GOATra but you know what i mean when i say that, especially in comparison to what came after. Maybe i should be more conservative with my use of GOATra but when she plays well so rarely it can seem like GOATra when really its just good play, and at a level she should be at for an entire match.

I've been a fan of Petra since the Semi-final defeat to Serena at wimbledon in 2010 so don't say i didn't know who she was until a couple of months ago... i follow and know more about her now is all.
"GOATRA" is virtually unplayable (as people like to say), cause she gives you no respite. That means Petra serving, returning, and hitting the ball very well off both wings, from any position or angle on the court. Usually, it means she's moving well, going to the net, and (contrary to popular belief), making adjustments, and setting up her points well to boot. And did I forget to mention confident, and believes in herself?

"GOATRA", or even a decent Petra, instead of freaking out and imploding, when Halep returned a few balls. She would have just aggressively cut the net off on her approach shots (instead of admiring them, not expecting them to come back), and forced Halep into UE's or been there for the easy volley. This is how she learned to beat Zvonareva and Wozniaki on Hardcourts, starting in 2011. Petra did not do this obviously. She admired those few early shots that were eventually returned. And then after she was late to approach. Then after, she seemingly gave up. Now we hear about Asthma again (she brought out the inhaler). Oh well.

Obviously, that wasn't the case against Halep (even 1/4 "GOATRA"). And I'm not sure if we'll ever see that GOATRA Form Petra again (though she flashed well in Doha)?

Last edited by Excelscior : Aug 27th, 2013 at 12:15 PM.
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Old Aug 27th, 2013, 12:07 PM   #393
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Re: US open Petra is playing Misaki Doi, Petko is looming

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Originally Posted by Excelscior View Post
This is not true.

Petra has beat many of top 20 players, and won tournaments on her movement (and getting the ball over the net with Topspin), mind you top 100.

This is a misnomer people like to repeat. Usually when Petra is playing well, she's moving well, and getting to balls you never expect her to, and bringing it back with interest, or hitting a spectacular shot. She was also rallying a lot. Just think of the Hardcourt tournaments alone, she's won the past two years? That's what she was doing. The problem is Petra's lazy, or unmotivated most of the time. And doesn't gut it out all the time. Others would say she's out of shape, I guess? I think she quits as well.

And example of this, when not playing well: When she beat Penetta at the 2011 Aussie Open. Petra did not play a good game, hitting, serving and returning wise. She was up and down. However, she was a blur on the court the entire game, which compensated for it. She was an absolute energize bunny. Last year, she should have lost her first match in Montreal. But some how she gutted it out, till her opponent imploded. That An ugly match. That's what she needs to do sometimes

Plus, you don't have to move well to "gut out tournaments". Vika, Serena, Sharapova, Radwanska, etc., win tournaments all the time when their sick, injured or hurt, just on will and guile. Why? Cause most times, the lower rank player will implode, if you let them hang around long enough? You just gotta "muddy up the waters or wait". Did you check out the Stephens, Minella match yesterday? Perfect example.

Stephens played horribly. She should have lost the match several times (Minella had several match points). And after a 3-1 lead in the third set tiebreak, Minella just imploded. She couldn't handle the good fortune.

Petra just has to learn not to panic, at the first moment, when playing lower seeded/ranked players and gut out matches, even if she's not 100%.
Agreed, although I don't think the reason is so simple as laziness.

My plan B for Petra is serve and holding of service games in "Roddick style". She used to be great in serving well although she wasn't able to return well or convert her BP chances, but she was always able to put in decent 1st or 2nd serve and use her good combination such as serve out wide to the ad court and then smacking winner to the court or end the rally by volley on the net after a short ball, she showed good serve and volley combination in Katowice as well.
Big guys from ATP (for example Berdych or Federer is great in holding his serve) win many matches just by hanging in and waiting for one or two weak moments on serve of their opponents. They do it by holding their serve and they love to use their combination that almost always work when need it most.
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Sometimes is very hard to be Petra's fan.

Last edited by *Jack* : Aug 27th, 2013 at 12:15 PM.
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Old Aug 27th, 2013, 12:22 PM   #394
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Re: US open Petra is playing Misaki Doi, Petko is looming

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Originally Posted by *Jack* View Post
Agreed, although I don't think the reason is so simple as laziness.

My plan B for Petra is serve and holding of service games in "Roddick style". She used to be great in serving well although she wasn't able to return well or convert her BP chances, but she was always able to put in decent 1st or 2nd serve and use her good combination such as serve out wide to the ad court and then smacking winner to the court or end the rally by volley on the net after a short ball, she showed good serve and volley combination in Katowice as well.
Big guys from ATP (for example Berdych or Federer is great in holding his serve) win many matches just by hanging in and waiting for one or two weak moments on serve of their opponents. They do it by holding their serve and they love to use their combination that almost always work when need it most.
Of course, the key to all this (what I said, particularly the win ugly example); you have to stat mentally strong and fight.

Unless, you're just playing a terrible opponent who's quick to implode (like Minella last night), usually when they see you're gonna make it tough on them and you're determined, even when you're not playing well, they freak out at some point.

The reason why I called Petra lazy, is cause she hasn't been consistent or committed to anything she's done or a particular game plan the past two years.

Unless, where gonna say it's asthma, out of shape, etc..? Why is it, some times she'll hit with top spin, and run around the court (like New Haven last year), and other times, she can't hit the ball in the ocean (like New Haven Final this year)?

Last year, she also gutted out a 3 setter against recent nemesis, Kirilenko. Against Halep Saturday, Petra seemed to check out after the first 4 games. You see where I'm going?

Where's the consistency in anything?

Petra also broke your serve very well in 2011 (especially when she wanted to, and focused). It started to decline starting in 2012. And it got absolutely abysmal in 2013.
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Old Aug 27th, 2013, 12:47 PM   #395
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Re: US open Petra is playing Misaki Doi, Petko is looming

@ Jack

PS: Obviously, if Petra was serving and returning as well as she once was. We wouldn't be having these discussions about players, outside of the top 3 beating her (especially in finals), minus a few bonehead losses we know Petra would have. Lol

Remember, Petra was # 2 or 3 in serve hold % in 2011 (like 78%). I think she was even in the top 5 in 2012. And though she wasn't among the outrightleaders in BP ROS %. She was close enough (in the forties). And the only reason why she wasn't higher (closer to Vika and Maria), was cause Petra took too many chances/winner attempts. But when she really buckled down (hard up the middle, mixed in with winner attempts), she could break you, almost at will. This started to decline in 2012, as well, as she showed signs during her post Wimby slump of 2011 during the NA summer. Now, she's a ghost of her former self, even in that arena of ROS. She's all over the place now, and far from what she used to be (minus Doha).

Hopefully, she can reclaim some of this, in the next four months ending the season (as she did to start 2011, following a disastrous end to 2010). But we'll see?

[sorry] I'm not sure how motivated Petra really is to do this/that.
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Old Aug 27th, 2013, 12:52 PM   #396
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Re: US open Petra is playing Misaki Doi, Petko is looming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Excelscior View Post
Of course, the key to all this (what I said, particularly the win ugly example); you have to stat mentally strong and fight.

Unless, you're just playing a terrible opponent who's quick to implode (like Minella last night), usually when they see you're gonna make it tough on them and you're determined, even when you're not playing well, they freak out at some point.

The reason why I called Petra lazy, is cause she hasn't been consistent or committed to anything she's done or a particular game plan the past two years.

Unless, where gonna say it's asthma, out of shape, etc..? Why is it, some times she'll hit with top spin, and run around the court (like New Haven last year), and other times, she can't hit the ball in the ocean (like New Haven Final this year)?

Last year, she also gutted out a 3 setter against recent nemesis, Kirilenko. Against Halep Saturday, Petra seemed to check out after the first 4 games. You see where I'm going?

Where's the consistency in anything?

Petra also broke your serve very well in 2011 (especially when she wanted to, and focused). It started to decline starting in 2012. And it got absolutely abysmal in 2013.
Yeah, sorry, I forgot to tell you that she didn't play a 3 setter against Kirilenko, she actually won it 7-6 7-5.

She was number 2 in the world at the start of 2012 (after YEC I think) and stayed in top 4 until the start of Wimby I think.

The motivation is good idea, that's why I think it is not that simple.
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Sometimes is very hard to be Petra's fan.
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Old Aug 27th, 2013, 01:57 PM   #397
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Re: US open Petra is playing Misaki Doi, Petko is looming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Excelscior View Post
Remember, Petra was # 2 or 3 in serve hold % in 2011 (like 78%). I think she was even in the top 5 in 2012. And though she wasn't among the outrightleaders in BP ROS %. She was close enough (in the forties). And the only reason why she wasn't higher (closer to Vika and Maria), was cause Petra took too many chances/winner attempts. But when she really buckled down (hard up the middle, mixed in with winner attempts), she could break you, almost at will. This started to decline in 2012, as well, as she showed signs during her post Wimby slump of 2011 during the NA summer. Now, she's a ghost of her former self, even in that arena of ROS. She's all over the place now, and far from what she used to be (minus Doha).
t.
Petra never had great stats outside of aces and service games won where she always sticks inside Top10 and her return stats were always awful, here is her stats for 2011-2012 seasons and now compare this to other players.
Stats leaders in 2011
Code:
Service Games Won:
Pos    Player               %
1 WILLIAMS, Serena        85.4
2 STOSUR, Samantha        79.7
3 KVITOVA, Petra          76.6
4 LISICKI, Sabine         75.6
5 SAFAROVA, Lucie         74.9
6 WOZNIACKI, Caroline     74.7
7 IVANOVIC, Ana           74.5
8 GOERGES, Julia          73.6
9 HANTUCHOVA, Daniela     73.0
10 RYBARIKOVA, Magdalena  72.9

First Serve Percentage: 
Pos    Player               %
1 ERRANI, Sara            76.8
2 NICULESCU, Monica       74.7
3 ZHENG, JIE              74.0
4 TATISHVILI, Anna        71.5
5 ZHANG, Shuai            70.4
6 AZARENKA, Victoria      70.4
7 PETKOVIC, Andrea        69.9
8 WOZNIACKI, Caroline     69.5
9 PENG, Shuai             69.1
10 LI Na                  69.1

First Service Points Won:
Pos    Player               %
1 WILLIAMS, Serena        76.7
2 LISICKI, Sabine         72.9
3 HRADECKA, Lucie         71.9
4 IVANOVIC, Ana           71.3
5 GAJDOSOVA, Jarmila      70.2
6 STOSUR, Samantha        69.9
7 SAFAROVA, Lucie         69.6
8 RYBARIKOVA , Magdalena  69.3
9 GOERGES, Julia          69.0
10 ZVONAREVA, Vera        68.9

Break Points Converted:
Pos    Player               %
1 MEDINA GARRIGUES, Anabel 54.9
2 SHARAPOVA, Maria         54.8
3 BONDARENKO, Kateryna     54.4
4 ZAKOPALOVA, Klara        52.4
5 NICULESCU, Monica        52.2
6 CORNET, Alizé            51.8
7 KLEYBANOVA, Alisa        51.7
8 OUDIN, Melanie           51.5
9 RADWANSKA, Agnieszka     51.1
10 Domínguez LINO, Lourdes 51.0

Return Games Won:
Pos    Player               %
1 SHARAPOVA, Maria         49.7
2 AZARENKA, Victoria       49.0
3 NICULESCU, Monica        48.5
4 CLIJSTERS, Kim           47.9
5 MEDINA GARRIGUES, Anabel 46.0
6 WOZNIACKI, Caroline      45.9
7 ZAKOPALOVA , Klara       45.5
8 RADWANSKA, Agnieszka     45.2
9 BARTOLI, Marion          44.7
10 JANKOVIC, Jelena        44.4

Points Won Returning First Serve:
Pos    Player               %
1 SHARAPOVA, Maria         43.8
2 NICULESCU, Monica        43.4
3 ZAKOPALOVA, Klara        43.1
4 RADWANSKA, Urszula       42.9
5 CLIJSTERS, Kim           42.6
6 Domínguez LINO, Lourdes  42.3
7 MEDINA GARRIGUES, Anabel 42.1
8 AZARENKA, Victoria       42.0
9 Suárez NAVARRO, Carla    41.9
10 WOZNIACKI, Caroline     41.7

Points Won Returning 2nd Serve:
Pos    Player               %
1 CLIJSTERS, Kim           61.6
2 SHARAPOVA, Maria         61.2
3 AZARENKA, Victoria       60.8
4 WOZNIACKI, Caroline      59.7
5 NICULESCU, Monica        59.2
6 RADWANSKA, Agnieszka     59.1
7 ERRANI, Sara             59.0
8 CIBULKOVA, Dominika      58.9
9 PENG, Shuai              58.7
10 JANKOVIC, Jelena        58.6
in 2012
Code:
Service Games Won:
Pos    Player               %
1 WILLIAMS, Serena         87.5
2 CLIJSTERS, Kim           78.8
3 KVITOVA, Petra           75.3
4 SHARAPOVA, Maria         75.2
5 AZARENKA, Victoria       75.0
6 STOSUR, Samantha         74.9
7 PETROVA, Nadia           74.5
8 HRADECKA, Lucie          73.1
9 HLAVACKOVA, Andrea       73.0
10 SAFAROVA, Lucie         72.5

First Serve Percentage: 
Pos    Player               %
1 ERRANI, Sara             76.3
2 RUS, Arantxa             70.6
3 ARVIDSSON, Sofia         69.0
4 ZHENG, Jie               68.4
5 LI, Na                   67.9
6 RADWANSKA, Agnieszka     67.9
7 AZARENKA, Victoria       67.7
8 MAYR-ACHLEITNER,Patricia 67.5
9 BEGU, Irina-Camelia      66.7
10 NICULESCU, Monica       66.7

First Service Points Won:
Pos    Player               %
1 WILLIAMS, Serena         77.8
2 HRADECKA, Lucie          73.1
3 PETROVA, Nadia           71.5
4 CLIJSTERS, Kim           70.3
5 WILLIAMS, Venus          69.6
6 BARTHEL, Mona            69.2
7 KANEPI, Kaia             69.1
8 HLAVACKOVA, Andrea       69.0
9 IVANOVIC, Ana            68.9
10 ROBSON, Laura           68.7

Break Points Converted:
Pos    Player               %
1 ERRANI, Sara             54.3
2 RADWANSKA, Agnieszka     54.2
3 AZARENKA, Victoria       53.5
4 RUS, Arantxa             51.7
5 DELLACQUA, Casey         51.4
6 CIBULKOVA, Dominika      51.3
7 BERTENS, Kiki            50.9
8 KANEPI, Kaia             50.7
9 BRATCHIKOVA, Nina        50.6
10 RYBARIKOVA, Magdalena   50.5

Return Games Won:
Pos    Player               %
1 AZARENKA, Victoria       52.5
2 ERRANI, Sara             51.2
3 PENNETTA, Flavia         48.0
4 RADWANSKA, Agnieszka     47.0
5 SHARAPOVA, Maria         47.0
6 WILLIAMS, Serena         46.8
7 JOHANSSON, Mathilde      45.0
8 ZAKOPALOVA, Klara        44.5
9 CIBULKOVA, Dominika      44.5
10 CORNET, Alizé           43.9

Points Won Returning First Serve:
Pos    Player               %
1 ERRANI, Sara             44.7
2 CORNET, Alizé            44.1
3 PENNETTA, Flavia         42.7
4 ZAKOPALOVA, Klara        42.4
5 WILLIAMS, Serena         42.4
6 AZARENKA, Victoria       42.0
7 RADWANSKA, Agnieszka     41.4
8 SHARAPOVA, Maria         41.4
9 CIBULKOVA, Dominika      40.9
10 KANEPI, Kaia            40.8

Points Won Returning 2nd Serve:
Pos    Player               %
1 AZARENKA, Victoria       63.8
2 SHARAPOVA, Maria         60.1
3 PENNETTA, Flavia         59.9
4 RADWANSKA, Agnieszka     59.9
5 WILLIAMS, Serena         59.8
6 JOHANSSON, Mathilde      59.7
7 ERRANI, Sara             59.3
8 KUZNETSOVA, Svetlana     59.1
9 SUÁREZ NAVARRO, Carla    58.9
10 LI, Na                  58.6
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Old Aug 27th, 2013, 02:55 PM   #398
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Re: US open Petra is playing Misaki Doi, Petko is looming

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiftyFella View Post
Petra never had great stats outside of aces and service games won where she always sticks inside Top10 and her return stats were always awful, here is her stats for 2011-2012 seasons and now compare this to other players.
Stats leaders in 2011
Code:
Service Games Won:
Pos    Player               %
1 WILLIAMS, Serena        85.4
2 STOSUR, Samantha        79.7
3 KVITOVA, Petra          76.6
4 LISICKI, Sabine         75.6
5 SAFAROVA, Lucie         74.9
6 WOZNIACKI, Caroline     74.7
7 IVANOVIC, Ana           74.5
8 GOERGES, Julia          73.6
9 HANTUCHOVA, Daniela     73.0
10 RYBARIKOVA, Magdalena  72.9

First Serve Percentage: 
Pos    Player               %
1 ERRANI, Sara            76.8
2 NICULESCU, Monica       74.7
3 ZHENG, JIE              74.0
4 TATISHVILI, Anna        71.5
5 ZHANG, Shuai            70.4
6 AZARENKA, Victoria      70.4
7 PETKOVIC, Andrea        69.9
8 WOZNIACKI, Caroline     69.5
9 PENG, Shuai             69.1
10 LI Na                  69.1

First Service Points Won:
Pos    Player               %
1 WILLIAMS, Serena        76.7
2 LISICKI, Sabine         72.9
3 HRADECKA, Lucie         71.9
4 IVANOVIC, Ana           71.3
5 GAJDOSOVA, Jarmila      70.2
6 STOSUR, Samantha        69.9
7 SAFAROVA, Lucie         69.6
8 RYBARIKOVA , Magdalena  69.3
9 GOERGES, Julia          69.0
10 ZVONAREVA, Vera        68.9

Break Points Converted:
Pos    Player               %
1 MEDINA GARRIGUES, Anabel 54.9
2 SHARAPOVA, Maria         54.8
3 BONDARENKO, Kateryna     54.4
4 ZAKOPALOVA, Klara        52.4
5 NICULESCU, Monica        52.2
6 CORNET, Alizé            51.8
7 KLEYBANOVA, Alisa        51.7
8 OUDIN, Melanie           51.5
9 RADWANSKA, Agnieszka     51.1
10 Domínguez LINO, Lourdes 51.0

Return Games Won:
Pos    Player               %
1 SHARAPOVA, Maria         49.7
2 AZARENKA, Victoria       49.0
3 NICULESCU, Monica        48.5
4 CLIJSTERS, Kim           47.9
5 MEDINA GARRIGUES, Anabel 46.0
6 WOZNIACKI, Caroline      45.9
7 ZAKOPALOVA , Klara       45.5
8 RADWANSKA, Agnieszka     45.2
9 BARTOLI, Marion          44.7
10 JANKOVIC, Jelena        44.4

Points Won Returning First Serve:
Pos    Player               %
1 SHARAPOVA, Maria         43.8
2 NICULESCU, Monica        43.4
3 ZAKOPALOVA, Klara        43.1
4 RADWANSKA, Urszula       42.9
5 CLIJSTERS, Kim           42.6
6 Domínguez LINO, Lourdes  42.3
7 MEDINA GARRIGUES, Anabel 42.1
8 AZARENKA, Victoria       42.0
9 Suárez NAVARRO, Carla    41.9
10 WOZNIACKI, Caroline     41.7

Points Won Returning 2nd Serve:
Pos    Player               %
1 CLIJSTERS, Kim           61.6
2 SHARAPOVA, Maria         61.2
3 AZARENKA, Victoria       60.8
4 WOZNIACKI, Caroline      59.7
5 NICULESCU, Monica        59.2
6 RADWANSKA, Agnieszka     59.1
7 ERRANI, Sara             59.0
8 CIBULKOVA, Dominika      58.9
9 PENG, Shuai              58.7
10 JANKOVIC, Jelena        58.6
in 2012
Code:
Service Games Won:
Pos    Player               %
1 WILLIAMS, Serena         87.5
2 CLIJSTERS, Kim           78.8
3 KVITOVA, Petra           75.3
4 SHARAPOVA, Maria         75.2
5 AZARENKA, Victoria       75.0
6 STOSUR, Samantha         74.9
7 PETROVA, Nadia           74.5
8 HRADECKA, Lucie          73.1
9 HLAVACKOVA, Andrea       73.0
10 SAFAROVA, Lucie         72.5

First Serve Percentage: 
Pos    Player               %
1 ERRANI, Sara             76.3
2 RUS, Arantxa             70.6
3 ARVIDSSON, Sofia         69.0
4 ZHENG, Jie               68.4
5 LI, Na                   67.9
6 RADWANSKA, Agnieszka     67.9
7 AZARENKA, Victoria       67.7
8 MAYR-ACHLEITNER,Patricia 67.5
9 BEGU, Irina-Camelia      66.7
10 NICULESCU, Monica       66.7

First Service Points Won:
Pos    Player               %
1 WILLIAMS, Serena         77.8
2 HRADECKA, Lucie          73.1
3 PETROVA, Nadia           71.5
4 CLIJSTERS, Kim           70.3
5 WILLIAMS, Venus          69.6
6 BARTHEL, Mona            69.2
7 KANEPI, Kaia             69.1
8 HLAVACKOVA, Andrea       69.0
9 IVANOVIC, Ana            68.9
10 ROBSON, Laura           68.7

Break Points Converted:
Pos    Player               %
1 ERRANI, Sara             54.3
2 RADWANSKA, Agnieszka     54.2
3 AZARENKA, Victoria       53.5
4 RUS, Arantxa             51.7
5 DELLACQUA, Casey         51.4
6 CIBULKOVA, Dominika      51.3
7 BERTENS, Kiki            50.9
8 KANEPI, Kaia             50.7
9 BRATCHIKOVA, Nina        50.6
10 RYBARIKOVA, Magdalena   50.5

Return Games Won:
Pos    Player               %
1 AZARENKA, Victoria       52.5
2 ERRANI, Sara             51.2
3 PENNETTA, Flavia         48.0
4 RADWANSKA, Agnieszka     47.0
5 SHARAPOVA, Maria         47.0
6 WILLIAMS, Serena         46.8
7 JOHANSSON, Mathilde      45.0
8 ZAKOPALOVA, Klara        44.5
9 CIBULKOVA, Dominika      44.5
10 CORNET, Alizé           43.9

Points Won Returning First Serve:
Pos    Player               %
1 ERRANI, Sara             44.7
2 CORNET, Alizé            44.1
3 PENNETTA, Flavia         42.7
4 ZAKOPALOVA, Klara        42.4
5 WILLIAMS, Serena         42.4
6 AZARENKA, Victoria       42.0
7 RADWANSKA, Agnieszka     41.4
8 SHARAPOVA, Maria         41.4
9 CIBULKOVA, Dominika      40.9
10 KANEPI, Kaia            40.8

Points Won Returning 2nd Serve:
Pos    Player               %
1 AZARENKA, Victoria       63.8
2 SHARAPOVA, Maria         60.1
3 PENNETTA, Flavia         59.9
4 RADWANSKA, Agnieszka     59.9
5 WILLIAMS, Serena         59.8
6 JOHANSSON, Mathilde      59.7
7 ERRANI, Sara             59.3
8 KUZNETSOVA, Svetlana     59.1
9 SUÁREZ NAVARRO, Carla    58.9
10 LI, Na                  58.6
It's hilarious that so many of those "top 10 players" are not in top 10 or they have never been, % are good but it's not everything.

I tried to mark the top 10 player by making their names bold and there are only few categories which are full or top 10 players.
I used three colors to mark how useful these skills are for the top 10 players to be there. Green shows categories which have at least half of the players from top 10. Blue less than a half but more than two. Red shows the least useful categories with two or less players in them.

Although I wouldn't take this too seriously, you can see that returning of 1st and 2nd serves keeps you in top 10, winning return and service games is also important (but more in 2012 than in 2011), high 1st serve % is also good to have. You can also see that winning points after 1st service is the least useful category and break points conversion is not much better.
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Sometimes is very hard to be Petra's fan.
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Old Aug 27th, 2013, 03:19 PM   #399
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Re: US open Petra is playing Misaki Doi, Petko is looming

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiftyFella View Post
Petra never had great stats outside of aces and service games won where she always sticks inside Top10 and her return stats were always awful. %
Indeed. This is the top 10 by return stats. (June 2013)

Return Games Won
Victoria Azarenka 57.1%
Serena Williams 52.8%
Sara Errani 51.4%
Na Li 48.8%
Maria Sharapova 48.7%
Agnieszka Radwanska 45.8%
Caroline Wozniacki 43.7%
Angelique Kerber 41.6%
Maria Kirilenko 38.7%
Petra Kvitova 38.5%

Petra is the worst of the top 10, almost 20% less than Azarenka
If you add to this Petra's unreliability with her serve, and the mental issues she has when it breaks down (basically, it drags down the rest of her game) maybe it's easy to see why she's doing so badly this season. The stats are even worse if you think that unlike Azarenka/Pova, she's only faced a big server like Serena once.
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Old Aug 27th, 2013, 03:29 PM   #400
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Re: US open Petra is playing Misaki Doi, Petko is looming

I heard that David K didn't go to the States because his wife was about to give birth to the baby, did he?
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Old Aug 27th, 2013, 03:48 PM   #401
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Re: US open Petra is playing Misaki Doi, Petko is looming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xepher View Post
I heard that David K didn't go to the States because his wife was about to give birth to the baby, did he?
He was in Cincy and then left
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Old Aug 27th, 2013, 03:51 PM   #402
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Re: US open Petra is playing Misaki Doi, Petko is looming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xepher View Post
I heard that David K didn't go to the States because his wife was about to give birth to the baby, did he?
She still is I think.
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Sometimes is very hard to be Petra's fan.
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Old Aug 27th, 2013, 04:15 PM   #403
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Re: US open Petra is playing Misaki Doi, Petko is looming

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiftyFella View Post
Petra never had great stats outside of aces and service games won where she always sticks inside Top10 and her return stats were always awful, here is her stats for 2011-2012 seasons and now compare this to other players.
Stats leaders in 2011
Code:
Service Games Won:
Pos    Player               %
1 WILLIAMS, Serena        85.4
2 STOSUR, Samantha        79.7
3 KVITOVA, Petra          76.6
4 LISICKI, Sabine         75.6
5 SAFAROVA, Lucie         74.9
6 WOZNIACKI, Caroline     74.7
7 IVANOVIC, Ana           74.5
8 GOERGES, Julia          73.6
9 HANTUCHOVA, Daniela     73.0
10 RYBARIKOVA, Magdalena  72.9

First Serve Percentage: 
Pos    Player               %
1 ERRANI, Sara            76.8
2 NICULESCU, Monica       74.7
3 ZHENG, JIE              74.0
4 TATISHVILI, Anna        71.5
5 ZHANG, Shuai            70.4
6 AZARENKA, Victoria      70.4
7 PETKOVIC, Andrea        69.9
8 WOZNIACKI, Caroline     69.5
9 PENG, Shuai             69.1
10 LI Na                  69.1

First Service Points Won:
Pos    Player               %
1 WILLIAMS, Serena        76.7
2 LISICKI, Sabine         72.9
3 HRADECKA, Lucie         71.9
4 IVANOVIC, Ana           71.3
5 GAJDOSOVA, Jarmila      70.2
6 STOSUR, Samantha        69.9
7 SAFAROVA, Lucie         69.6
8 RYBARIKOVA , Magdalena  69.3
9 GOERGES, Julia          69.0
10 ZVONAREVA, Vera        68.9

Break Points Converted:
Pos    Player               %
1 MEDINA GARRIGUES, Anabel 54.9
2 SHARAPOVA, Maria         54.8
3 BONDARENKO, Kateryna     54.4
4 ZAKOPALOVA, Klara        52.4
5 NICULESCU, Monica        52.2
6 CORNET, Alizé            51.8
7 KLEYBANOVA, Alisa        51.7
8 OUDIN, Melanie           51.5
9 RADWANSKA, Agnieszka     51.1
10 Domínguez LINO, Lourdes 51.0

Return Games Won:
Pos    Player               %
1 SHARAPOVA, Maria         49.7
2 AZARENKA, Victoria       49.0
3 NICULESCU, Monica        48.5
4 CLIJSTERS, Kim           47.9
5 MEDINA GARRIGUES, Anabel 46.0
6 WOZNIACKI, Caroline      45.9
7 ZAKOPALOVA , Klara       45.5
8 RADWANSKA, Agnieszka     45.2
9 BARTOLI, Marion          44.7
10 JANKOVIC, Jelena        44.4

Points Won Returning First Serve:
Pos    Player               %
1 SHARAPOVA, Maria         43.8
2 NICULESCU, Monica        43.4
3 ZAKOPALOVA, Klara        43.1
4 RADWANSKA, Urszula       42.9
5 CLIJSTERS, Kim           42.6
6 Domínguez LINO, Lourdes  42.3
7 MEDINA GARRIGUES, Anabel 42.1
8 AZARENKA, Victoria       42.0
9 Suárez NAVARRO, Carla    41.9
10 WOZNIACKI, Caroline     41.7

Points Won Returning 2nd Serve:
Pos    Player               %
1 CLIJSTERS, Kim           61.6
2 SHARAPOVA, Maria         61.2
3 AZARENKA, Victoria       60.8
4 WOZNIACKI, Caroline      59.7
5 NICULESCU, Monica        59.2
6 RADWANSKA, Agnieszka     59.1
7 ERRANI, Sara             59.0
8 CIBULKOVA, Dominika      58.9
9 PENG, Shuai              58.7
10 JANKOVIC, Jelena        58.6
in 2012
Code:
Service Games Won:
Pos    Player               %
1 WILLIAMS, Serena         87.5
2 CLIJSTERS, Kim           78.8
3 KVITOVA, Petra           75.3
4 SHARAPOVA, Maria         75.2
5 AZARENKA, Victoria       75.0
6 STOSUR, Samantha         74.9
7 PETROVA, Nadia           74.5
8 HRADECKA, Lucie          73.1
9 HLAVACKOVA, Andrea       73.0
10 SAFAROVA, Lucie         72.5

First Serve Percentage: 
Pos    Player               %
1 ERRANI, Sara             76.3
2 RUS, Arantxa             70.6
3 ARVIDSSON, Sofia         69.0
4 ZHENG, Jie               68.4
5 LI, Na                   67.9
6 RADWANSKA, Agnieszka     67.9
7 AZARENKA, Victoria       67.7
8 MAYR-ACHLEITNER,Patricia 67.5
9 BEGU, Irina-Camelia      66.7
10 NICULESCU, Monica       66.7

First Service Points Won:
Pos    Player               %
1 WILLIAMS, Serena         77.8
2 HRADECKA, Lucie          73.1
3 PETROVA, Nadia           71.5
4 CLIJSTERS, Kim           70.3
5 WILLIAMS, Venus          69.6
6 BARTHEL, Mona            69.2
7 KANEPI, Kaia             69.1
8 HLAVACKOVA, Andrea       69.0
9 IVANOVIC, Ana            68.9
10 ROBSON, Laura           68.7

Break Points Converted:
Pos    Player               %
1 ERRANI, Sara             54.3
2 RADWANSKA, Agnieszka     54.2
3 AZARENKA, Victoria       53.5
4 RUS, Arantxa             51.7
5 DELLACQUA, Casey         51.4
6 CIBULKOVA, Dominika      51.3
7 BERTENS, Kiki            50.9
8 KANEPI, Kaia             50.7
9 BRATCHIKOVA, Nina        50.6
10 RYBARIKOVA, Magdalena   50.5

Return Games Won:
Pos    Player               %
1 AZARENKA, Victoria       52.5
2 ERRANI, Sara             51.2
3 PENNETTA, Flavia         48.0
4 RADWANSKA, Agnieszka     47.0
5 SHARAPOVA, Maria         47.0
6 WILLIAMS, Serena         46.8
7 JOHANSSON, Mathilde      45.0
8 ZAKOPALOVA, Klara        44.5
9 CIBULKOVA, Dominika      44.5
10 CORNET, Alizé           43.9

Points Won Returning First Serve:
Pos    Player               %
1 ERRANI, Sara             44.7
2 CORNET, Alizé            44.1
3 PENNETTA, Flavia         42.7
4 ZAKOPALOVA, Klara        42.4
5 WILLIAMS, Serena         42.4
6 AZARENKA, Victoria       42.0
7 RADWANSKA, Agnieszka     41.4
8 SHARAPOVA, Maria         41.4
9 CIBULKOVA, Dominika      40.9
10 KANEPI, Kaia            40.8

Points Won Returning 2nd Serve:
Pos    Player               %
1 AZARENKA, Victoria       63.8
2 SHARAPOVA, Maria         60.1
3 PENNETTA, Flavia         59.9
4 RADWANSKA, Agnieszka     59.9
5 WILLIAMS, Serena         59.8
6 JOHANSSON, Mathilde      59.7
7 ERRANI, Sara             59.3
8 KUZNETSOVA, Svetlana     59.1
9 SUÁREZ NAVARRO, Carla    58.9
10 LI, Na                  58.6
How was I incorrect, about service games % held?

She was top 2-3 in 2011 and 2012, in the mid to high 70's, as I stated.

And I was very clear regarding Petra and her ability to break you (you just can't go by her overall stats). And we have to remember, despite her lofty rankings on serve % held , this was combined with some of the stinkers Petra would play (particularly the second half of 2011), thus meaning she was even more dominant on her serve in 2011 and 2012 (particularly when she was playing well), than overall stats would merely indicate. So are you trying to say, she wasn't much better in 2011 and 2012 at this (serving and returning)?

Equally as important: Petra was holding serve, going deep into many more more tournaments in 2011, and 2012 (against much tougher competition), than someone like Stosur back then, or Petra has done so far in 2013 against scrubs and mid level types. This can't be overlooked by mere stats. It's a different world really.

And what else do you really need, besides a high % of games held, and aces (if you must) to determine someone's a good server (especially in the WTA) stat wise? First serve % means nothing, really.

I'm still puzzled by your post.

Did you even read what I wrote, listen to yourself?

Petra was a much better server and (even returner) in 2011 and 2012. It's not even close.
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Old Aug 27th, 2013, 05:08 PM   #404
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Re: US open Petra is playing Misaki Doi, Petko is looming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Excelscior View Post
Equally as important: Petra was holding serve, going deep into many more more tournaments in 2011, and 2012 (against tougher competition), than someone like Stosur, or Petra has done so far in 2013 against scrubs and mid level types. This can't be overlooked by mere stats. It's a different world.
Yes she was going deeper especially at big events in 2012 compared to what she's doing this year but competition wasn't tougher because she was ranked higher and was meeting decent player much later in the draw, average rank of player she faced in 2011: 42(46 if you discount YEC), 2012: 54, 2013: 46. Her record vs Top10 is much more reviling stat and in 2012 she was abysmal with 3-7 record, this year she is 5-4 and impressive 13-5(7-3 before USO) in 2011


Quote:
Originally Posted by Excelscior View Post
And what else do you really need, besides % of games held, and aces (if you must) to determine someone's a good server. First serve % means nothing, really.
Petra was a much better server and (even returner) in 2011 and 2012. It's not even close.
Service games held doesn't determined how good is your serve because you can have tons of BPs that you gifted with DFs\UEs that you had to save in order to hold. First service win % is more telling story and if look at this stats she has dropped her level as expected but her numbers weren't impressive in first place, same goes for her 2nd serve win %, also Petra wasn't good returner at all and not just this year like you trying to state and that's why i gave all those stats
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Old Aug 27th, 2013, 05:23 PM   #405
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Re: Us open Petra beat Misaki Doi in 3 and started to pack

Was it that bad?
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