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Old Jun 20th, 2013, 01:42 PM   #76
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Re: Steubenville rape victim's family says they are proud fans of Serena

I'm really disappointed in Serena for being so stupid. I wish she'd not opened her mouth at all. I hope that she'll use her free time to make amends with rape victims, so she could better understand their plight.
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Old Jun 20th, 2013, 01:44 PM   #77
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Re: Steubenville rape victim's family says they are proud fans of Serena

Now that the family has accepted Serena's apology, suddenly the issue belongs to non-tennis.
The call coming from posters who hit their stride posting in the first 2 original threads mostly attacking Serena.

Now accusing the mods of being involved in some kind of conspiracy to protect Serena
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Old Jun 20th, 2013, 01:50 PM   #78
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Re: Steubenville rape victim's family says they are proud fans of Serena

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Originally Posted by JLG View Post
You haven't even read the damn rolling stone article?
I thought you were saying her comments about Steubenville were from a phone conversation, since you know, that's what this thread is about.
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Old Jun 20th, 2013, 01:58 PM   #79
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Re: Steubenville rape victim's family says they are proud fans of Serena

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Originally Posted by faboozadoo15 View Post
I thought you were saying her comments about Steubenville were from a phone conversation, since you know, that's what this thread is about.
Do you even read what you respond to? Venus called her and that's how she got into the convo about "the top 5 player". I said I didn't care about the Rape comments because that was nothing that a parent hasn't told her daughter, no matter how much negativity you can find in it because it was Serena.

I wish she hadn't said it, knowing how everyone acts about every little thing she says and is gonna be a distraction for Wimbledon....but it's also funny how this happened 3 months ago and just coming out now FOR that distraction.

Other than that I see it as the same ole shit from the same ole people
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Old Jun 20th, 2013, 02:01 PM   #80
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Re: Steubenville rape victim's family says they are proud fans of Serena

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Originally Posted by Freewoman33 View Post
I'm really disappointed in Serena for being so stupid. I wish she'd not opened her mouth at all. I hope that she'll use her free time to make amends with rape victims, so she could better understand their plight.
So now Serena owes something to the victims of rape?...........Interesting
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Old Jun 20th, 2013, 02:03 PM   #81
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Re: Steubenville rape victim's family says they are proud fans of Serena

That was very gracious and understanding of the family. I don't think it's fair to them to imply that they were paid to make such a statement. It cheapens the suffering that they have gone through as a family and the integrity and comportment with which they have held themselves.

faboozadoo15, while I agree that what Serena said was ignorant, I don't think it was callous at all. Thoughtless but not callous.

brickhousesupporter, it's pretty common for people who make such a misstep to reach out to victims in hopes of better understanding their plight as Freewoman33 said. She doesn't owe it to them but it would show that she wants to do more than issue a simple apology. I'd like to see Serena make some kind of move like this, not because she owes anyone anything or because it's half-expected but because it would show that she really cares.
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Old Jun 20th, 2013, 02:04 PM   #82
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Re: Steubenville rape victim's family says they are proud fans of Serena

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freewoman33 View Post
I'm really disappointed in Serena for being so stupid. I wish she'd not opened her mouth at all. I hope that she'll use her free time to make amends with rape victims, so she could better understand their plight.
I don't think Serena condones rape or does not understand it.

I believe her statement timing was ill advised.

Had she made the statement, in a slightly re-worded form, to an audience of young women, while speaking to them on how to take precaution to keep themselves out of danger, it could have been a perfectly and reasonable statement. Making such statement when the rape has already occurred was Serena's mistake.


I believe this kind speech is probably part of rape prevention kit.


Here is a scholarly paper considering drug and alcohol as contributing factors
Quote:

The Role of Drugs and Alcohol in Rape


MIRANDA A H HORVATH, BSc MSc
  1. PhD Candidate, Department of Psychology, University of Surrey, Guildford, Surrey, GU2 7XH
  1. JENNIFER BROWN, BA PhD FBPsS
    1. Professor of Forensic Psychology, Department of Psychology, University of Surrey, Guildford, Surrey, GU2 7XH
Abstract

Alcohol and drugs have been inextricably linked with sexual assault. Media coverage has increasingly highlighted the health risks facing intoxicated women and more recently identified the risk of rape as an additional hazard.

Using a sample of rape cases reported to the police between 1999 and 2004, this paper establishes that rapes involving intoxicants (alcohol and/or drugs) are distinguishable from those which do not.
Further analysis discovered that the identity of the intoxicated parties (i.e. men, women, neither or both) is important in differentiating rapes. Results report differences by location of assault, victim offender relationship, victim and offender characteristics and offence behaviours.

A consistent finding from the analysis is that the victim's state of sobriety or inebriation appears more significant than that of the offender. The implications for crime prevention and directions for future research are discussed.




for more:

http://msl.sagepub.com/content/46/3/219.short

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Old Jun 20th, 2013, 02:06 PM   #83
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Re: Steubenville rape victim's family says they are proud fans of Serena

Quote:
Originally Posted by L'Enfant Sauvage View Post
1) Your post could have done without the generalization of a single fanbase, it contributes nothing. It doesn't take a PHD to see that you had no qualms with the 2 or 3 previous threads, but suddenly want one that includes a relatively peaceful resolution locked straight away. The mods never get to anything instantly, the other threads were posted during the height of activity, this one past midnight where most of the mods live so they will close it when they get to it if they deem it to be a problem. Since none of the threads broke forum rules and non-tennis related threads get moved to NT, we can assume they get locked if they are heading down a path that will only lead to baiting and flamewars like the first one did (and like this one will if anyone takes faboozadoo's bait).

2) Again, I don't know you as a poster, but from the only posts of yours I've read you've been critical of Serena (which isn't unwarranted in this particular case), and called for the only non-hostile thread related to her to be locked almost instantly. If you wanted to people to be educated you should have been clear about that from the beginning... People looking to educate others don't whine that a thread (the perfect place to educate people on) hasn't been locked yet. Doing so just makes it look like you've an axe to grind.[
I am not begging for threads to be locked, please stop twisting my words. I just want equal treatement.
Your argument is faulty because it ignores chronology completely.
Yes, I didn't have any qualms with the previous two threads except that they were locked IN NO TIME. If that were not the case, I wouldn't have had any qualms with this one either. A point you pretend to have missed.

Moreover, and this is a very subtle point, so you may actually miss it: when I made my comment about non-tennis threads being moved I actually didn't call for closing this one - I was simply making an observation; indeed I was quite happy that it offered me the oppotunity to actually say what I couldn't have said in the previous thread (which I did including a scholarly article among other things).

Quote:
And funny you should mention "educating" people on this issue. In light of this story I've actually been educated and had my stance evolve on the issue, not by people flinging insults at fanbases and begging for threads to be locked, but by being calm, civil and articulating their points well from the start. Not being provoked into it like you've been here.
Hilarious, first you call me stupid then you call for calm and civil discussion.
Again, chronology.

Edit: And it appears that my first post pointing the obvious double standard of locking the non-tennis related threads only when they are unpleasant to Serena has been errased.
Nuff said. Or as they say in mathematics - Q.E.D.
The mods are in the house, so I am dieing to see how they apply the criteria equally.

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Old Jun 20th, 2013, 02:09 PM   #84
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Re: Steubenville rape victim's family says they are proud fans of Serena

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Originally Posted by blackandblue View Post
Black youth get this kind of stuff told to them by their parents all the time. We don't live in utopia like everyone on this board does.
not the point.a lot of people would be offended if a public figure was using this kind of argument to minimize the guy's responsability or the fairness of "what he got", and rightfully so.same with the posts implying the girl was too stupid and/or their parents failed.or else, i suppose in the case of Serena's sister and Trayvor martin we can say it was just bad parenting, or they were too stupid to listen to them and got unlucky ? this reasoning is just ridiculously ignorant
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Old Jun 20th, 2013, 02:26 PM   #85
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Re: Steubenville rape victim's family says they are proud fans of Serena

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I don't think anyone had a problem with the apology. More the original comments themselves.
Not true at all. Go back and read the thread that got closed in GM. Several people did have a problem with the apology. Not that those people matter anyway.
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Old Jun 20th, 2013, 02:28 PM   #86
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Re: Steubenville rape victim's family says they are proud fans of Serena

Don't you guys get tired talking about the same issue over and over again? She apologized for what she said, and there's no way we know she's sincere or not, so we should just give her the benefit of the doubt. She said the inappropriate things, or she said things at an inappropriate time, or she didn't phrase her words well enough, why she said sorry we might never know, but we do know that she said sorry, and in this case an apology should be enough. What's the point of discussing whether what she said is correct or not, is it always that important to you that your favorite players, or the players you dislike, has to be right/wrong or not?
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Old Jun 20th, 2013, 02:30 PM   #87
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Re: Steubenville rape victim's family says they are proud fans of Serena

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Originally Posted by dany.p View Post
The apology does seem genuine though (although it could just be damage control). Personally, i'm willing to forgive and forget. I just hope Serena thinks more deeply and compassionately about this issue.
How arrogant must you be to think that you have standing to forgive anything in this instance?

If any forgivness is in order it's not for you to give but for the victim and her family to give.
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Old Jun 20th, 2013, 02:31 PM   #88
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Re: Steubenville rape victim's family says they are proud fans of Serena

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Originally Posted by JAS_ View Post
I am not begging for threads to be locked, please stop twisting my words. I just want equal treatement.
Your argument is faulty because it ignores chronology completely.
Yes, I didn't have any qualms with the previous two threads except that they were locked IN NO TIME. If that were not the case, I wouldn't have had any qualms with this one either. A point you pretend to have missed.

Moreover, an this is a very subtle point, so you may actually miss it: when I made my comment about non-tennis threads being moved I actually didn't call for closing this one - I was simply making an observation; indeed I was quite happy that it offered me the oppotunity to actually say what I couldn't have said in the previous thread.
It's very clear to understand why these threads are treated differently. The first thread was allowed for 8 hours at the height of activity, getting 672 replies until it devolved into a flamewar and a discussion that was no longer going anywhere. The second thread was allowed for 5 hours in the middle of the day, getting 342 replies until it was closed. The third thread was a duplicate of the second, and thus was locked as soon as a mod got to it after 42 replies (about 1.5 hours. Yet here you are complaining about a thread that was posted in the middle of the night/early morning for most people (3:43 AM here... not unreasonable to think mods weren't even awake) not much more than an HOUR after it was posted, 21 replies in (granted the post has been since deleted, but still). I still stand by my statement (a bit cleaned up now) that you had to have had either an axe to grind against her, or if not stupid, you at least spoke without actually analyzing the mods' treatment of these threads. You were in the wrong.

Quote:
Hilarious, first you call me stupid then you call for calm and civil discussion.
Again, chronology.
Your original post (complaining about this thread being open) could have just as easily come from any known blatant troll on this site like GoDokic, Noserena, Basharapova etc. Thus, I treated you like a troll. Notice how I didn't insult you and treated you like a regular poster after you explained your stance without the petulance.
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Old Jun 20th, 2013, 02:33 PM   #89
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Re: Steubenville rape victim's family says they are proud fans of Serena

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Originally Posted by Anthony. View Post
Every thread about this issue has been locked in GM, and you're still making threads?
The threads in GM probably should have been locked since they really were not discussing tennis. Non tennis is where these things should be discussed. Of course there are those who dislike open discussion of difficult issues anyhwhere. Are you one of those?
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Old Jun 20th, 2013, 02:35 PM   #90
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Re: Steubenville rape victim's family says they are proud fans of Serena

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Originally Posted by HippityHop View Post
Not true at all. Go back and read the thread that got closed in GM. Several people did have a problem with the apology. Not that those people matter anyway.
Hart to believe anyone would say that.
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