Let's have a constructive discussion on rape culture - TennisForum.com
TennisForum.com   Wagerline.com MensTennisForums.com TennisUniverse.com
TennisForum.com is the premier Women's Tennis forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.Please Register - It's Free!
Reply

Old Jun 19th, 2013, 10:05 PM   #1
Morning Morgan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: sddfs
Posts: 2,692
Morning Morgan has a reputation beyond repute Morning Morgan has a reputation beyond repute Morning Morgan has a reputation beyond repute Morning Morgan has a reputation beyond repute Morning Morgan has a reputation beyond repute Morning Morgan has a reputation beyond repute Morning Morgan has a reputation beyond repute Morning Morgan has a reputation beyond repute Morning Morgan has a reputation beyond repute Morning Morgan has a reputation beyond repute Morning Morgan has a reputation beyond repute
Let's have a constructive discussion on rape culture

Ok I'm opening this thread in non-tennis to avoid the shit storm in GM, but I think this is the most balanced response I have seen to this incident, and I think we'll all do good to heed it.

"Serena appears to be stirring controversy again, but I believe that her views, though polarizing, are not that unusual. If anything, they illustrate that we still have a ways to go in educating the public about what it means to be a victim of sexual assault, and that individuals who commit such crimes should be held accountable for their actions.

"I've been a prosecutor in Northern California for 17 years, and for the last four, I prosecuted sexual assault cases, including child molestation and adult rape. I cannot tell you how many potential jurors espouse views similar to Serena's: The victim of rape is somehow responsible for the crime because she put herself in a situation that made it easier for young men to commit crimes against her, and that the young men are somehow less responsible for their actions because the girl was drunk.

"When I read Serena's views, it made me think she would make a terrible juror on a sexual assault case, and that she's the kind of person who could be educated to rethink her views. I have argued to juries many times over the last few years that we have evolved as a society. We used to believe that a woman who said she was raped could only be believed if there were other witnesses to the crime or other corroborating evidence. Now we know, and the law allows, that the testimony of a single witness, if believed by a jury, is sufficient to convict a defendant. We now understand and accept as a society that sexual assault usually occurs when no one else is looking and when the victim is most vulnerable.

"Certainly, the victim in the Steubenville rape case appears to have been incredibly vulnerable because she was completely drunk and unconscious. To blame her for being the victim of rape and to reduce the responsibility of the perpetrators, as Serena appears to do, shows that the old ways of thinking about rape are alive and well. While I would never choose Serena as juror, I certainly wouldn't mind talking to her about the subject matter in hopes of helping her understand that the young men in Steubenville bear the responsibility for sexually assaulting a young woman who was incapable of giving consent, and that they got what they deserved for committing a horrible crime.

"I know this column is about tennis, so let me add this: I'm a huge fan of Serena's tennis and I will continue to root for her. But this incident shows yet again a fundamental difference between her and Venus, an eloquent advocate for equal pay in her sport and a terrific ambassador for women's sports. I, for one, cannot imagine Venus making the remarks attributed to Serena on the subject of sexual assault."


Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ten...#ixzz2WhaydAB0
__________________
He looked deep into his eyes and said, "You're perfect."

"No, I'm not. But with you, I don't even care."
Morning Morgan is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old Jun 19th, 2013, 10:20 PM   #2
country flag shap_half
Senior Member
 
shap_half's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 12,464
shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A balanced response to the Serena faux pas

My doubles partner is an avid Serena fan. And it really took a lot out of me to speak with him about this, because he was defending Serena's perspective. And my biggest issue with this entire thing is that when it comes to taking advantage of someone, it doesn't matter what the victim did, you never just go and rape someone. Should that girl have gotten so drunk that she was unconscious from it, of course not, but that has no bearing on who is responsible for what happened. You don't rape people. My problem with Serena's perspective is that she comes like she thinks, if you make bad decisions, you will sometimes have to deal with the consequences. If she had suffered through intense medical issues of because of this, yes, that would have been entirely her fault. The consequences of getting drunk off your ass should never be sexual assault.
shap_half is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 19th, 2013, 10:25 PM   #3
country flag RenaGOAT94
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 130
RenaGOAT94 is a glorious beacon of light RenaGOAT94 is a glorious beacon of light RenaGOAT94 is a glorious beacon of light RenaGOAT94 is a glorious beacon of light RenaGOAT94 is a glorious beacon of light RenaGOAT94 is a glorious beacon of light RenaGOAT94 is a glorious beacon of light RenaGOAT94 is a glorious beacon of light RenaGOAT94 is a glorious beacon of light RenaGOAT94 is a glorious beacon of light RenaGOAT94 is a glorious beacon of light
Re: A balanced response to the Serena faux pas

Can you please close this thread? Its done, she apologized, it should have never went viral in the first place, everyone just stfu and move on....
RenaGOAT94 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 19th, 2013, 10:26 PM   #4
country flag DemWilliamsGulls
Senior Member
 
DemWilliamsGulls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 4,760
DemWilliamsGulls has a reputation beyond repute DemWilliamsGulls has a reputation beyond repute DemWilliamsGulls has a reputation beyond repute DemWilliamsGulls has a reputation beyond repute DemWilliamsGulls has a reputation beyond repute DemWilliamsGulls has a reputation beyond repute DemWilliamsGulls has a reputation beyond repute DemWilliamsGulls has a reputation beyond repute DemWilliamsGulls has a reputation beyond repute DemWilliamsGulls has a reputation beyond repute DemWilliamsGulls has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A balanced response to the Serena faux pas

You guys obviously missed this discussed in the general message thread...it got ugly to where it was closed..all the way to about 20 something pages...lol.........I think we all are ready to move on....I know I said what I had to say about it. WIMBLEDON lets talk about WIMBLEDON LOL
__________________
Venus and Serena ....Often imitated NEVER duplicated!!!!!!!
DemWilliamsGulls is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 19th, 2013, 10:28 PM   #5
country flag shap_half
Senior Member
 
shap_half's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 12,464
shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A balanced response to the Serena faux pas

I've not participated in the conversation on GM, but why shouldn't it have gone viral? Serena is a very public figure and an icon in her field, of course what she has to say is something that people listen to. She's made what has been controversial comment; why do we need to STFU and move on?
shap_half is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 19th, 2013, 10:31 PM   #6
country flag DemWilliamsGulls
Senior Member
 
DemWilliamsGulls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 4,760
DemWilliamsGulls has a reputation beyond repute DemWilliamsGulls has a reputation beyond repute DemWilliamsGulls has a reputation beyond repute DemWilliamsGulls has a reputation beyond repute DemWilliamsGulls has a reputation beyond repute DemWilliamsGulls has a reputation beyond repute DemWilliamsGulls has a reputation beyond repute DemWilliamsGulls has a reputation beyond repute DemWilliamsGulls has a reputation beyond repute DemWilliamsGulls has a reputation beyond repute DemWilliamsGulls has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A balanced response to the Serena faux pas

Quote:
Originally Posted by shap_half View Post
I've not participated in the conversation on GM, but why shouldn't it have gone viral? Serena is a very public figure and an icon in her field, of course what she has to say is something that people listen to. She's made what has been controversial comment; why do we need to STFU and move on?
I can't....lol move on sharp half move on
__________________
Venus and Serena ....Often imitated NEVER duplicated!!!!!!!
DemWilliamsGulls is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 19th, 2013, 10:31 PM   #7
country flag semprelibera
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,472
semprelibera has a brilliant future semprelibera has a brilliant future semprelibera has a brilliant future semprelibera has a brilliant future semprelibera has a brilliant future semprelibera has a brilliant future semprelibera has a brilliant future semprelibera has a brilliant future semprelibera has a brilliant future semprelibera has a brilliant future semprelibera has a brilliant future
Re: A balanced response to the Serena faux pas

Because there have been 2 threads about it and the same arguments from each side just keep getting repeated over and over.
semprelibera is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 19th, 2013, 10:39 PM   #8
Morning Morgan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: sddfs
Posts: 2,692
Morning Morgan has a reputation beyond repute Morning Morgan has a reputation beyond repute Morning Morgan has a reputation beyond repute Morning Morgan has a reputation beyond repute Morning Morgan has a reputation beyond repute Morning Morgan has a reputation beyond repute Morning Morgan has a reputation beyond repute Morning Morgan has a reputation beyond repute Morning Morgan has a reputation beyond repute Morning Morgan has a reputation beyond repute Morning Morgan has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A balanced response to the Serena faux pas

Okay, I'm going to try to moderate this thread without actually having an actual moderator.

I see basically three camps of people here. The first camp are the diehard Serena fans, who see any controversy surrounding Serena as another attempt to sabotage her image. I won't deny that there may be a few good reasons to feel this way, especially with many past incidents and some pretty biased commentators, but this time I feel that the issue has gone beyond that. Serena expressed a view that feeds right into the hands of rape culture, and no matter how she is liked/disliked, I don't think anyone would deny that she is a strong woman, and her views of rape culture is detrimental to women's rights when she is regarded as their stalwart.

This brings me to the second camp of people, the ones who like Serena hold views that have been quite heavily entrenched from the older generation, and touched upon in the balanced response by someone I posted up there. And of course, the third camp are the people who are outraged by rape culture and vehemently wants to banish it, and thus feels very strongly about speaking up.

I would say there isn't much common ground between these three camps, but I think this is a valuable learning exercise and an oppurtunity to educate people on the dangers of rape culture. The only thing I request is criticize Serena for her views of rape culture, but do not use it as a platform to further exacerbate attacks on her character and blow it out of proportion. In fact, I think it is important to speak out against this very unenlightened notion of victim responsibility, because not doing so leads to the slippery slope of extremist modesty we see in some countries, and male tendencies are tolerated instead of being expected to be controlled.
__________________
He looked deep into his eyes and said, "You're perfect."

"No, I'm not. But with you, I don't even care."
Morning Morgan is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 19th, 2013, 10:41 PM   #9
country flag RenaGOAT94
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 130
RenaGOAT94 is a glorious beacon of light RenaGOAT94 is a glorious beacon of light RenaGOAT94 is a glorious beacon of light RenaGOAT94 is a glorious beacon of light RenaGOAT94 is a glorious beacon of light RenaGOAT94 is a glorious beacon of light RenaGOAT94 is a glorious beacon of light RenaGOAT94 is a glorious beacon of light RenaGOAT94 is a glorious beacon of light RenaGOAT94 is a glorious beacon of light RenaGOAT94 is a glorious beacon of light
Re: A balanced response to the Serena faux pas

Quote:
Originally Posted by shap_half View Post
I've not participated in the conversation on GM, but why shouldn't it have gone viral? Serena is a very public figure and an icon in her field, of course what she has to say is something that people listen to. She's made what has been controversial comment; why do we need to STFU and move on?
This was not a proper interview, Serena said those comments voluntarily in the comfort of HER OWN HOME. Obviously, she would not have said something that daring if it was an actual interview question (not that actual tennis interviwers would actually ask that).and we need to stfu because theres already been two threads about it and its getting wayyy out of hand is is super unnecessary. It's a personal opinion for God's sake.
RenaGOAT94 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 19th, 2013, 10:45 PM   #10
country flag PatrickRyan
Senior Member
 
PatrickRyan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 11,185
PatrickRyan has a reputation beyond repute PatrickRyan has a reputation beyond repute PatrickRyan has a reputation beyond repute PatrickRyan has a reputation beyond repute PatrickRyan has a reputation beyond repute PatrickRyan has a reputation beyond repute PatrickRyan has a reputation beyond repute PatrickRyan has a reputation beyond repute PatrickRyan has a reputation beyond repute PatrickRyan has a reputation beyond repute PatrickRyan has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A balanced response to the Serena faux pas

I love Serena, but what she said was wrong. Good she apologized and is trying to reach out to the family.
PatrickRyan is online now View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 19th, 2013, 10:57 PM   #11
country flag kwilliams
Senior Member
 
kwilliams's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 8,521
kwilliams has a reputation beyond repute kwilliams has a reputation beyond repute kwilliams has a reputation beyond repute kwilliams has a reputation beyond repute kwilliams has a reputation beyond repute kwilliams has a reputation beyond repute kwilliams has a reputation beyond repute kwilliams has a reputation beyond repute kwilliams has a reputation beyond repute kwilliams has a reputation beyond repute kwilliams has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A balanced response to the Serena faux pas

Quote:
Originally Posted by RenaGOAT94 View Post
This was not a proper interview, Serena said those comments voluntarily in the comfort of HER OWN HOME. Obviously, she would not have said something that daring if it was an actual interview question (not that actual tennis interviwers would actually ask that).and we need to stfu because theres already been two threads about it and its getting wayyy out of hand is is super unnecessary. It's a personal opinion for God's sake.
I'll never understand people's insistence that issues not be discussed...even if we do go in circles.

Like shap_half, I didn't see the other thread and, as a Serena fan, maybe I'd like to give my two cents.

My heart sank, like, it really sank when I read the OP. I googled it and was somewhat relieved by the context in which Serena spoke.

Whether it was part of the real interview or not, it doesn't change the fact that Serena said it and hers is an opinion that matters (it certainly matters to me as her fan)

As I said, the context made it a little better, but Serena should certainly try to learn a little bit more about the issue. I hope she takes the time to do so (after focusing all her efforts on defending her Wimbledon crown!)

I also agree that Venus wouldn't have made this mistake but that's besides the point really as they're individuals!
__________________
Venus Williams
Serena Williams




http://flickr.com/photos/keithmaguire/
kwilliams is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 19th, 2013, 10:59 PM   #12
country flag Melange
 
Melange's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 28,540
Melange has a reputation beyond repute Melange has a reputation beyond repute Melange has a reputation beyond repute Melange has a reputation beyond repute Melange has a reputation beyond repute Melange has a reputation beyond repute Melange has a reputation beyond repute Melange has a reputation beyond repute Melange has a reputation beyond repute Melange has a reputation beyond repute Melange has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A balanced response to the Serena faux pas

So making a personal opinion at home makes it okay. So if someone is a racist but they dont say it outside that makes it acceptable.
Melange is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 19th, 2013, 11:45 PM   #13
country flag $uricate
Step to this. I dare you.
 
$uricate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Under the sea.
Posts: 18,444
$uricate has a reputation beyond repute $uricate has a reputation beyond repute $uricate has a reputation beyond repute $uricate has a reputation beyond repute $uricate has a reputation beyond repute $uricate has a reputation beyond repute $uricate has a reputation beyond repute $uricate has a reputation beyond repute $uricate has a reputation beyond repute $uricate has a reputation beyond repute $uricate has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A balanced response to the Serena faux pas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melange View Post
So making a personal opinion at home makes it okay. So if someone is a racist but they dont say it outside that makes it acceptable.
I thought every comment on this forum was race related?
__________________
Part-Time PianistCorporate Drone Pirru Pushu Princess Elina JellyD Shitra JJuggs VIP Cheaterlenko Pavs Help Polo Rusless ITFanovic Unattractive-Insideraki

PopCon 2013.
$uricate is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 20th, 2013, 01:02 AM   #14
country flag HippityHop
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,856
HippityHop has a reputation beyond repute HippityHop has a reputation beyond repute HippityHop has a reputation beyond repute HippityHop has a reputation beyond repute HippityHop has a reputation beyond repute HippityHop has a reputation beyond repute HippityHop has a reputation beyond repute HippityHop has a reputation beyond repute HippityHop has a reputation beyond repute HippityHop has a reputation beyond repute HippityHop has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A balanced response to the Serena faux pas

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwilliams View Post
I'll never understand people's insistence that issues not be discussed...even if we do go in circles.

Like shap_half, I didn't see the other thread and, as a Serena fan, maybe I'd like to give my two cents.

My heart sank, like, it really sank when I read the OP. I googled it and was somewhat relieved by the context in which Serena spoke.

Whether it was part of the real interview or not, it doesn't change the fact that Serena said it and hers is an opinion that matters (it certainly matters to me as her fan)

As I said, the context made it a little better, but Serena should certainly try to learn a little bit more about the issue. I hope she takes the time to do so (after focusing all her efforts on defending her Wimbledon crown!)

I also agree that Venus wouldn't have made this mistake but that's besides the point really as they're individuals!
I agree with you here. It always pisses me off that somebody can come into a thread and proclaim that the subject has been discussed over and over. Well so what? There may be people who did not see the other discussion. If folks are tired of a discussion, just step the hell on and stop trying to close down other people giving their two cents worth.

These cretins don't want to talk about things and then in their arrogance believe that nobody else should be able to talk about it.

There is no law that says people have to post in every thread that they see online.
__________________
The famous are rarely significant and the significant are rarely famous.

The world will ask you who you are, and if you don't know, they will tell you.
HippityHop is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 20th, 2013, 01:05 AM   #15
country flag HippityHop
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,856
HippityHop has a reputation beyond repute HippityHop has a reputation beyond repute HippityHop has a reputation beyond repute HippityHop has a reputation beyond repute HippityHop has a reputation beyond repute HippityHop has a reputation beyond repute HippityHop has a reputation beyond repute HippityHop has a reputation beyond repute HippityHop has a reputation beyond repute HippityHop has a reputation beyond repute HippityHop has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A balanced response to the Serena faux pas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melange View Post
So making a personal opinion at home makes it okay. So if someone is a racist but they dont say it outside that makes it acceptable.
Frankly yes. I'm not one who believes in policing the thoughts of other people. I care about how a person acts not how they think.

And yes people are capable of thinking one way and acting another.
__________________
The famous are rarely significant and the significant are rarely famous.

The world will ask you who you are, and if you don't know, they will tell you.
HippityHop is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios