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Old Sep 1st, 2013, 02:28 AM   #2731
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Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 12

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Originally Posted by C. W. Fields View Post
6-4, 4-6, 3-6. Giorgi was good tonight but not so good a more inspired Caro couldn't have won this match. In my opinion, Caro threw away the match at 2-2, 15-40 in the decider: that was THE point to take control of the match but Caro lacked the courage and just moved the ball around until Giorgi hit a winner. Caro's not likely to get a GS draw this good anytime soon, so we're unlikely to see even a decent GS result like a QF from Caro unless she really ups her game. Can a new coach do it? Maybe, if Caro is willing to change. That's her biggest problem in my eyes, her unwillingness to change/improve.
Yes - I thought back to that. I think she lost the next 4 points to surrender that chance of a break. But really Giorgi's pressure in this match caused Caro's forehand to break down badly. That was very worrying and I knew inside me that Caro was done. And I lost count of the number of times Caro framed/shanked the ball. One or two and it's not too much of a gift. But they were happening all the time. I think they were always on her forehand.

At the beginning of the match there were one or two points that Caro showed how she could have won this match. And that was to move Giorgi around. Giorgi was in trouble with those few points when Caro got her to move. But there were so few points that Caro was able to do that.

The most positive part about this match was the way Caro played at the net. Also - she did miss one easy putaway but the rest of the time was really solid with putting away anything that was asking to be put away.
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Old Sep 1st, 2013, 02:31 AM   #2732
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Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 12

Uuuh - she cannot win tennis games without any forehand and it's been her problem since early age. If she don't develop it from training and into her actual matches, she will never be no. 1 again or winning a slam. It looked as she were trying to compensate for the lack of power in her forehand by sending balloon balls as returns. Any player have weapons against that.

I predicted 4 years ago that she would dominate women tennis maybe 6 - 7 years but her talent seems to be administrated wrong - she's gone in the wrong direction.
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Old Sep 1st, 2013, 02:47 AM   #2733
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Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 12

Caro 8 winners 21 unforced errors in sets 2 & 3 combined.
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Old Sep 1st, 2013, 03:52 AM   #2734
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Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 12

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lets be honest, Caro is playing like shit!
You saw this more clearly than I did. I thought she had pulled her game together this summer. But you were right. She's not playing at a level where any draw is soft enough. The way her forehand broke down, I dont think she could win a 50k now.
I had no idea her forehand caved in so easily. Why isnt every player banging balls at her forehand? That should be everyone's #1 strategy against Caroline
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Old Sep 1st, 2013, 07:51 AM   #2735
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Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 12

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Originally Posted by C. W. Fields View Post
6-4, 4-6, 3-6. Giorgi was good tonight but not so good a more inspired Caro couldn't have won this match. In my opinion, Caro threw away the match at 2-2, 15-40 in the decider: that was THE point to take control of the match but Caro lacked the courage and just moved the ball around until Giorgi hit a winner. Caro's not likely to get a GS draw this good anytime soon, so we're unlikely to see even a decent GS result like a QF from Caro unless she really ups her game. Can a new coach do it? Maybe, if Caro is willing to change. That's her biggest problem in my eyes, her unwillingness to change/improve.
Why is Caro so unwilling to change/improve?
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Old Sep 1st, 2013, 09:10 AM   #2736
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Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 12

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Why is Caro so unwilling to change/improve?
I think she's willing to work hard. I dont know if she can improve. Your forehand cannot break down to that level. So no matter what else she does, she is never going to win if players know her forehand can destruct in total.
So what to do? Do you totally change the technique? That could make her even worse. It shatters your confidence.

This is a troubling loss. Especially since she was 2 games away when it started to fall apart.
I wouldnt even know what to advise her. Who else on the tour has any part of their game fall apart so thoroughly, and in a winnable match?
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Old Sep 1st, 2013, 09:17 AM   #2737
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Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 12

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Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
I think she's willing to work hard. I dont know if she can improve. Your forehand cannot break down to that level. So no matter what else she does, she is never going to win if players know her forehand can destruct in total.
So what to do? Do you totally change the technique? That could make her even worse. It shatters your confidence.

This is a troubling loss. Especially since she was 2 games away when it started to fall apart.
I wouldnt even know what to advise her. Who else on the tour has any part of their game fall apart so thoroughly, and in a winnable match?
If her forehand was worse than ever, I don't see a change of technique to be such a huge gamble. Now I didn't watch the match, but if it really was as bad as posters here are saying, I say go for it.
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Old Sep 1st, 2013, 10:01 AM   #2738
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Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 12

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If her forehand was worse than ever, I don't see a change of technique to be such a huge gamble. Now I didn't watch the match, but if it really was as bad as posters here are saying, I say go for it.
Definitely. If her goal is to win majors and get back to number one she has to be willing to take chances. Yes, tinkering with her forehand could hurt her game but it is too big of a weakness not to try something different.
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Old Sep 1st, 2013, 10:37 AM   #2739
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Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 12

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Definitely. If her goal is to win majors and get back to number one she has to be willing to take chances. Yes, tinkering with her forehand could hurt her game but it is too big of a weakness not to try something different.
It will always be risky to tinker with her game. I'm not sure that it's even possible at her age. People will mention other players who improved this or that stroke at a similar age, or even when they were older. But they only had to make minor adjustments whereas I think improving Caro's forehand is a far bigger (and risky) job that might include a grip change, stepping into the ball more, etc. That last thing might already make a big difference. So often she's falling back on it instead of hitting it on the front foot. Sure, it's a big gamble, but one she must take if she wants to stay in the top 10. Forget about winning majors or getting back to number one because that almost sounds funny at this point. I hope they won't tinker with her serve though. Her service motion looks pretty good to me and I think her serve is as good as it's gonna get. She's just not very explosive, but I don't think there's anything wrong with it from a technical perspective. But the forehand, yes. It's too poor a stroke to leave it as it is.
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Old Sep 1st, 2013, 11:27 AM   #2740
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Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 12

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It will always be risky to tinker with her game. I'm not sure that it's even possible at her age. People will mention other players who improved this or that stroke at a similar age, or even when they were older. But they only had to make minor adjustments whereas I think improving Caro's forehand is a far bigger (and risky) job that might include a grip change, stepping into the ball more, etc. That last thing might already make a big difference. So often she's falling back on it instead of hitting it on the front foot. Sure, it's a big gamble, but one she must take if she wants to stay in the top 10. Forget about winning majors or getting back to number one because that almost sounds funny at this point. I hope they won't tinker with her serve though. Her service motion looks pretty good to me and I think her serve is as good as it's gonna get. She's just not very explosive, but I don't think there's anything wrong with it from a technical perspective. But the forehand, yes. It's too poor a stroke to leave it as it is.
I agree with you about talk of winning majors and number one. I mentioned it because as her game is now she can have an okay career but I hope she isn't satisfied with "okay." When she retires is she going to be satisfied that she did all that she could to be as good as she could be or will she regret playing it safe? She seems to have a stay the course/play it safe mentality so it seems unlikely that she is willing to take big risks. All we can do is wait and see but I really hope that she does something different with her offseason and starts 2014 ready and with at least some noticeable improvements to her game.
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Old Sep 1st, 2013, 11:39 AM   #2741
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Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 12

I wasn’t able to watch the match last night but based from all your comments, Caro fell into pieces again…. This is the best draw she ever had and we all expected that she could reach at least the quarters. That’s the problem…WE EXPECTED… I hope Caro will do a major overhaul in her game especially her forehand and serve - Like hiring a good coach (E.g. Thomas).
Honestly I am in a brink of losing my support to Caro… She never pushes herself enough to improve. Maybe she does, but not 100%. After all she has the money, and a multi-millionaire Rory. I think this is what in her mind now as a defense mechanism everytime she losses.
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Old Sep 1st, 2013, 12:06 PM   #2742
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Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 12

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Originally Posted by DownInAHole View Post
I agree with you about talk of winning majors and number one. I mentioned it because as her game is now she can have an okay career but I hope she isn't satisfied with "okay." When she retires is she going to be satisfied that she did all that she could to be as good as she could be or will she regret playing it safe? She seems to have a stay the course/play it safe mentality so it seems unlikely that she is willing to take big risks. All we can do is wait and see but I really hope that she does something different with her offseason and starts 2014 ready and with at least some noticeable improvements to her game.
I agree, but if she would take that risk and change her forehand will we still support her if it should all go terribly wrong? Because that's what happened when late in 2011 she started slapping forehands all over the place. Of course back then she didn't really change the grip or stuff like that. She just tried to be more agressive with it the way it was. But even if she would make some drastic changes, failure is always going to be a strong possibility. And if things go wrong we'll be the first to say that it was foolish to change. It's easier to be us than her when it comes to making such descisions. But be that as it may, yes, I think she should try. Leaving things as they are is also a risk because I don't think she'll be able to add much more to her list of achievements if she doesn't take that gamble.
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Old Sep 1st, 2013, 12:13 PM   #2743
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Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 12

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Originally Posted by James_Hingis View Post
I wasn’t able to watch the match last night but based from all your comments, Caro fell into pieces again…. This is the best draw she ever had and we all expected that she could reach at least the quarters. That’s the problem…WE EXPECTED… I hope Caro will do a major overhaul in her game especially her forehand and serve - Like hiring a good coach (E.g. Thomas).
Honestly I am in a brink of losing my support to Caro… She never pushes herself enough to improve. Maybe she does, but not 100%. After all she has the money, and a multi-millionaire Rory. I think this is what in her mind now as a defense mechanism everytime she losses.
I think it's still worth supporting her. She WAS trying as hard as she could, gave it a 100%. That forehand was just too big a weakness to overcome, but SHE DID try. It's not as though she ever gave up or looked as though she didn't want to be there.
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Old Sep 1st, 2013, 12:22 PM   #2744
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Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 12

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I think it's still worth supporting her. She WAS trying as hard as she could, gave it a 100%. That forehand was just too big a weakness to overcome, but SHE DID try. It's not as though she ever gave up or looked as though she didn't want to be there.
She did great in many ways, but the nerves were clear at moments. That was her undoing imho.
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Old Sep 1st, 2013, 12:28 PM   #2745
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Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 12

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She did great in many ways, but the nerves were clear at moments. That was her undoing imho.
I'm sure that was part of it, yes. And let's give her some credit - Giorgi played a great match. After she lost the first set I half expected her to go away. You often see that after losing a competitive first set against the bigger name they will lose the second set 6-1 or something like that. But her level never really dropped.
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