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Old Jan 27th, 2003, 11:16 AM   #1
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Following up the 'Jonas Thread'

Clearing up a few things:

Jonas might be a bit unknown in the world nowadays, but just about everyone the slightest interested in tennis in Sweden knows who he is. He has been for several years (dunno if he is still) the player representative for ATP. That's not something you get appointed to if you're not a fairly pleasant person.

There is no reference to when Jonas answered what he thought about the sisters, though the article itself was published the other day. But given the strict laws regarding things like this in Sweden, we can be sure that Jonas has been asked if it was okay to print it now even if he said it a year or more ago.

I didn't bring this up to make an attack on anyone. I thought it was interesting to see someone who should have some insight, and being known as a pleasant guy, saying such things, wondering if he had a hidden agenda for doing it, or just truthfully answering questions that might be correct, or they might be misguided.

The response to that thread actually made me sad. There seems to be four cathegories of replies.

1. Jonas is an idiot/unknown guy who knows shit about the WTA. He should shut the hell up instead of trying to make a name by accusing the sisters.

He wouldn't be the first, and none of those before have been successful either despite making worse accusations. He's done a lot more with his tennis before than a few minutes of critizism would give him. And I'm sure he knows a lot more than 99% of all fans about just about any more player. True, he might not meet the sisters very often, but he surely meets a lot of persons who do, and the talk goes around. They're the big stars now, you can be sure there's a lot of talk about them going on on the ATP too, for good and bad. True, Jonas' comments might be influenced by jealousy or disliking them for other reasons, but I strongly doubt he's just making it up on the basis of one incident. Just because an article quotes one reason doesn't mean he hasn't got other incidents to tell about. I agree that it was a bit stupid to get goaded into saying it, but it doesn't mean he's wrong.

2. Jonas might be right, but the sisters got their millions and titles so who gives a shit about what other people think about them?

This is just plain sad. I'd never try to make money in a way that meant everyone would dislike me. I would never follow someone who'd take their money and not care about anyone. I don't think the sisters think like that, and I feel sorry for the fans who think they do or should, and encourage such behaviour.

3. Jonas might be right, but Hingis/Kournikova/whoever are divas and asses too!

Meaning what? It's okay to be an ass if others are too? It's just a pathetic attitude.

4. The sisters might have their bad days too, and there's probably a reason beyond pure envy and racism that they're not liked everywhere. We like'em anyway, though we want them to be even better role models.

That's how I believe you should react. That's how I react if I hear bad things about Hingis. She's just a person, doing mistakes. I love her tennis, she seems to be a nice person nowadays, but I don't like it when I hear otherwise and I hope she'll behave better. I think SOME william fans should grow up and do the same. That would make this board a much nicer place. Feel free to question sources and come with arguments why they are wrong (like quoting ball boys saying Venus are nice, or point out the reason, like perhaps being dumped, that the accuser might have to come with an 'unmotivated' attack) instead of acting like children, because it doesn't win you any discussions, and it only makes people like the sisters even less when SOME fans act like clueless children.

I can admit that the biggest reasons that I don't like the sisters particularly is that SOME fans behave like they do. True, most players have such fans, but it appears to me that Williams play in their own division nowadays. It's sad, but true. I'd expect the fans to try to make their players more liked than the other way around. It's really a shame.
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Old Jan 27th, 2003, 11:19 AM   #2
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Jonas is just riding on the popularity of the Williams sisters.

He can't be popular on his own merits. Nice try Jonas.
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Old Jan 27th, 2003, 10:34 PM   #3
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This is what happens:

Serena wins another slam. The clueless swedish papers who cares nada about WTA needs something, and they call the male (since they don't know who Åsa is) tennis players and ask what they think about the sisters, and Jonas happens to think something that makes a good headline.

Jonas did NOT call them and ask them to help him in his personal vendetta against the sisters. Stop pretending that's the scenario.
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Old Jan 28th, 2003, 12:00 AM   #4
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what does it matter what the scenario is? He has zero business being negative about two girls who never said anything bad about him or anyone else for that matter. Everyone wants to justify everyone's right to say negative stuff but what about Williamsx2 right to get the same respect they afford other tennis players in the media?

He was an idiot for saying that, period. Whether he's a talented idiot or a talentless idiot matters not to me.
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Old Jan 28th, 2003, 12:31 AM   #5
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The only thing in that thread that was totally clear to me, was that it showed who actually cared about tennis, and who just watches for Venus and Serena.

Although there is nothing wrong with the latter- there are scores of people who watch just for Anna, or Monica, or Martina, or whoever the heros in their country are, etc - but it does remind me who is, and who isn't worth debating about TENNIS with.

The number of people who scoffed at his tennis career was really astounding.

It spoke a lot for what those people know about tennis on the ATP.

That said, I never once defended his words - if those were indeed his - as I don't agree with "bad mouthing" through the press.
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Old Jan 28th, 2003, 01:57 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rocketta
two girls who never said anything bad about him or anyone else for that matter
How the hell do you know that?

Not everything Venus & Serena say will be open to the public

Open your eyes
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Old Jan 28th, 2003, 02:02 AM   #7
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Please everything the Williams family says is under a microscope.
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Old Jan 28th, 2003, 02:15 AM   #8
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FACTS:
-Humans need attention
-One could get attention by slagging off an unpopular player.
-The william sisters are unpopular players for some reason or another.
-Jonas bjorkman is a human.

Now feed that database to prolog or any other A.I. programming language and you get the following result:
"Jonas bjorkman needs attention." you can't fight off with the conclusion of a completely rational being.
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Old Jan 28th, 2003, 02:25 AM   #9
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Seriously, given what he's quoted as saying, either he's wrong, or the ballkids at OZ ( and the US Open, and Wimbledon, where they were very well received also, are wrong.

His words were NOT ambiguous.

"They are very unpleasant toward people."

"They have very little respect for people and they live in a dreamworld"

"They are unpleasant. If the security guards don't open the door correctly, they snub immediately. They are megadivas"

That last one is especially good. Someone who the ballkids vote as the nicest and most respectful, snubs the security guards for not opening the door correctly.

I'm sorry, it makes no sense.

The words are lies. They simply and literally run counter to every interview I've seen them do, every interview I've read, plus what Lindsay Davenport has said, plus BJK.

And no, I really CAN'T see any reason beyond envy or anti-Black bigotry for actively disliking Venus or Serena.

A few years ago, on the old board, there was a wonderful, though short thread called "Venus said it" The challenge was to post any quote in which Venus said any negative thing about another player, or was in any way rude, or abusive.

There was NOT ONE QUOTE POSTED. Not ONE. With all the Williams haters we have around here, no one could come up with even one.

If you're not rude, not abusive, don't say nasty things about other people and children and dogs like you, I'm hard pressed to see what's to dislike.
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Old Jan 28th, 2003, 02:58 AM   #10
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OK, all I want to know is how does one open a door "incorrectly". I'm laughing trying to even picture that :-)
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Old Jan 28th, 2003, 03:12 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by kournikovafan13
How the hell do you know that?

Not everything Venus & Serena say will be open to the public

Open your eyes
duh we're talking about to the media who the hell knows or cares what people say in private?

If jonas had kept it private we wouldn't be talking about him either or maybe that was the point.
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Old Jan 28th, 2003, 03:35 AM   #12
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You lose all credibility when you say you dislike the sisters because some of their fans are a$$holes. Now who is being childish and clueless with an attitude like that? Anyone who basis their opinions of a person based on the actions of someone else is beyond pathetic and ignorant. I as a williams fan have no problem ignoring and dismissing people like that because they have no foundation to stand on. Their point of view is skewed and can't have much to discuss in any objective way.


just my two cents.
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Old Jan 28th, 2003, 07:23 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by cybelledarkholmexx
You lose all credibility when you say you dislike the sisters because some of their fans are a$$holes.
But you're an a$$hole, so why not
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Old Jan 28th, 2003, 08:45 AM   #14
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Quote:
You lose all credibility when you say you dislike the sisters because some of their fans are a$$holes. Now who is being childish and clueless with an attitude like that? Anyone who basis their opinions of a person based on the actions of someone else is beyond pathetic and ignorant. I as a williams fan have no problem ignoring and dismissing people like that because they have no foundation to stand on. Their point of view is skewed and can't have much to discuss in any objective way.
Good I didn't say that then.

Let me make it perfectly clear:

NOT PARTICULARLY LIKING is NOT THE SAME as DISLIKING.

And, I didn't say it was the ONLY reason either. Richard's another one. Not liking their game is another one. But that's not the point.

Let's say there are two store selling ice-cream during a hot summer. If you go to one of them, people will line they way, throwing rocks at you and shouting obsceneties at you. If you go to the other one, you won't be assaulted. Which store would you go to?

It had to be some darn good ice-cream for me to go through the rain of rocks, and as I said above, to me, V & S aren't that good. That's my opinion to begin with, and ignorant fans is what really makes me not root for them. It doesn't mean I root against them though as long as they don't play against my faves.
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Old Jan 28th, 2003, 08:49 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Volcana
That last one is especially good. Someone who the ballkids vote as the nicest and most respectful, snubs the security guards for not opening the door correctly.

I'm sorry, it makes no sense.
Actually it does makes sense. Loads of it. ALL PEOPLE, tennis players included, act differently near kids then they do near people their own age, so the ball boys' statements are not important for this argument.
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