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Yes. 33 55.93%
No. 15 25.42%
Hard to say. 11 18.64%
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Apr 11th, 2013, 09:54 PM   #61
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Re: Have you ever read Bible?

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Originally Posted by miffedmax View Post
Yeah. Didn't stick.
I thought you were Russian Orthodox.
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Old Apr 12th, 2013, 01:09 PM   #62
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Re: Have you ever read Bible?

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Originally Posted by Melange View Post
What issues were you debating

Several. Examples: if Jesus's divine Laws are eternal, where are your miracles?

Every church pretends it is imbued with the Holy Spirit. On that basis these churches should be performing miracles that duplicate AND surpass the miracles of Jesus (whom I often referred to as Yahshuah since my ancestors were Jews who were forcibly converted to Catholicism at the point of a sword by the Inquisition). When challenged to perform these miracles the churches immediately balk and proclaim me an antichrist.

The mater of healing by faith ~ churches teaches that if you want a miracle you need to have faith that it will come. That if you do not get the miracle it is because you lacked faith. I point out that when Jesus said "oh ye of little faith" he was condemning the lack of faith on the part of the preachers, not that of the sick person or supplicant. I even point out that Lazarus was raised from the dead. A dead person cannot have faith because faith is a conscious act. Lazarus was in no position to have faith and expect a miracle. Jesus healed because He possessed the power of the Holy Spirit. Any truly anointed minister would the same as it is written in the New Testament.

In recent years years my favorite issue has been the matter of the highly complex and controversial matter of polygynous marriage. Christian churches condemn this practice and have even executed people who practice polygyny (where a man has multiple wives). It is too complicated to get into here. But my view (as well as that of several biblical and Hebraic scholars) is that the Messianic Law did not end polygyny. In fact, Christians practiced it until the 4th century when it was outlawed by the pagan Romans. And in fact, my Sefardic ancestors practiced it until the 14th century (to this day it is still practiced by Yemeni Jews).


In these debates, I use biblical and historical sources to prove my point. The churches resort to highly emotional and angry retorts almost none of which can be found in the Bible. Instead, they use church teachings which have no biblical basis. Thus, when I beat them in these debates they ban me because they know I have beaten them and rather easily, too.
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Old Apr 12th, 2013, 01:20 PM   #63
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Re: Have you ever read Bible?

Their problem is that they are fixating on miracles so its easy to beat them in a debate. I dont think theres such thing as a truly anointed minister who performs miracles
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Old Apr 12th, 2013, 01:27 PM   #64
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Re: Have you ever read Bible?

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Originally Posted by Melange View Post
Their problem is that they are fixating on miracles so its easy to beat them in a debate. I dont think theres such thing as a truly anointed minister who performs miracles
The problem is that the Bible teaches its Laws are eternal. They do not change with time. Therefore, the miracles promised in John 14:12 are to be done eternally.
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Old Apr 12th, 2013, 04:44 PM   #65
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Re: Have you ever read Bible?

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Originally Posted by wta_zuperfann View Post
The problem is that the Bible teaches its Laws are eternal. They do not change with time. Therefore, the miracles promised in John 14:12 are to be done eternally.
Actually, there are no miracles promised in John 14:12. You made that up. Here are four translations of the passage:


KJV:
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

NIV:
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father

NLT:
“I tell you the truth, anyone who believes in me will do the same works I have done, and even greater works, because I am going to be with the Father.

RSV:
“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I go to the Father.



I may be wrong, but Jesus certainly could have substituted the word miracles for works in this passage, but he did not.

The question then becomes what did Jesus mean by works? In Matthew 25, Jesus talks about separating the sheep from the goats. He gives specific works that will figure into that separation. It can be argued that greater works have indeed been done (quantitatively) since Jesus, through the spread and workings of the church. Jesus really worked in a relatively small area during his earthly life.

Which brings me to another point. It's often argued that people who believe the Bible will pick and choose what is to be taken literally and what is to be taken as metaphor. This argument is used to try and undermine belief by saying you either take everything literally or you take nothing literally. That's an argument that's too clever by half because it assumes that one has to be mindless in order to be a believer in scripture.

Examples:

When Jesus told the disciples "I will make you fishers of men" are we to think that he meant that we are to go out in boats and throw nets over swimmers?

In Matthew 5, When he said "you are the salt of the earth" are we to think that he meant we are literally Sodium Chloride (NaCl)?

When he said, also in Matthew 5, "You are the light of the world" and "let your light shine before men.." are we to think that he meant that we are to go out shining flashlights in front of people?
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Old Apr 12th, 2013, 09:24 PM   #66
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Thumbs up Re: Have you ever read Bible?

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Originally Posted by wta_zuperfann View Post
Therefore, the miracles promised in John 14:12 are to be done eternally.
if we're too tired, we can count on the e.t., laser joystick in hand
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Old Apr 12th, 2013, 09:56 PM   #67
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Re: Have you ever read Bible?

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I'm a staunch athiest and still probably know the Bible better than a lot of so-called Christians.
Please listen when you hear the truth! Trust that the flesh is fleeting because all flesh passes away! Understand that there is a spiritual realm after this life because the flesh does not live by itself. Know that you are a spirit bound by flesh. Know that your mission is to overcome the flesh and prepare to live in the spirit! Trust your fellow HUMANS, if you have no faith, you will suffer the great death. Understand that if you don't want to hear the truth, you are under Satan's control and will suffer two deaths. Do not live in darkness, BELIEVE! You have nothing to lose! This is coming from someone who has seen the light! It's REAL LIGHT, and the Hell realm and the demons.. take heed. The battle for your spirit is taking place this very moment WAKE UP and dwell in the heavens!
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Old Apr 12th, 2013, 10:12 PM   #68
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Re: Have you ever read Bible?

Please listen to me, and know the truth if the words I speak benefit you or if it will lead you to sin! People have different gifts. I had always wondered what my gift was until I recieved it! Does this mean I am better than anyone?? NO?? But listen to your spirit when I tell you I am one of the witnesses that the Bible speaks of. The spiritual plane is VERY REAL. The Living light is real as God shows me almost every night along with visions of Heaven, and demons. This comes V.I.A. The Holy Ghost baptizing and showing me what is wrong and the real consequences. Still don't believe me??

I've always had homosexual desires, so I am not here to judge or condemn. I am here to be a witness. There is salvation for everyone but you must have faith and step into the fact that JESUS carried your sins to the cross. Come into this fact and live how he would want you to live. Treat your bodies like a temple.
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Old Apr 12th, 2013, 10:47 PM   #69
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Re: Have you ever read Bible?

What I find so great about what has been happening to me is the discovery that the journey to the Heavens and outer space actually is a journey within your OWN body! We will never be able to travel the long distances of space outwardly! Look in to your heart, your CREATOR God is there at the point of BEGINNING journey back to the beginning my friends
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Old Apr 12th, 2013, 11:00 PM   #70
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Re: Have you ever read Bible?

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Old Apr 12th, 2013, 11:09 PM   #71
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Re: Have you ever read Bible?

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Originally Posted by wta_zuperfann View Post
The problem is that the Bible teaches its Laws are eternal. They do not change with time. Therefore, the miracles promised in John 14:12 are to be done eternally.
Yeah that is a great point and that's certainly inconsistent with that's actually happened with the religion. For instance, creationism is basically a reactionary religious belief made up to counter evolution in science. Before this, the concept didn't exist and it was that people took the Bible creation story literally. And then it changed. This is a fundamental problem with this religion because it's not consistent. It's constantly changing to meet the needs of the people. Apparently, you take some things literally, some things metaphorically. It's basically what you want it be as long as you feel loved by God and you believe in Jesus, you go to heaven.

Contrast to this something like Buddhism/Taoism where something that was said 2,500 years ago remains as relevant today as it will be tomorrow. Although, the ideas may not appeal to a lot of people because it doesn't tell them what they want to hear.
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Old Apr 12th, 2013, 11:18 PM   #72
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Re: Have you ever read Bible?

KNOW THAT GOD'S RULES DOES NOT CHANGE. People change his words to their benefit.
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Old Apr 12th, 2013, 11:22 PM   #73
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Re: Have you ever read Bible?

and regarding miracles, miracles they do happen but take place on the spiritual plane, and it does not occur on their own. It comes via seeing God perform the miracle first and instructing us to do the same and the Holy Spirit is the vehicle which the miracles take place. There are miracles now, but people choose not to see them and even if they did they will steal NOT BELIEVE. Read the Bible and know that Jesus did miracles yet people still didn't believe.

Sadly, some of you won't let your Ego trip go and get over this "I know what is best for me"

ahh, no you are not the creator, does your body not age? Do you not have to use the restroom. Know that you will not have to do any of these things in Heaven. Look in the Mirror and ask yourself if you look the same as you did 10 years ago, if not you are not perfect thus you are NOT GOD! His gift of eternal salvation is there for everyone to take, crazy to think many will STILL burn in hell because they simply won't let their ego go.
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Old Apr 12th, 2013, 11:42 PM   #74
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Re: Have you ever read Bible?

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Note that Almighty God has already prophesied, and has seen those who will laugh on earth, and this he say to them!

He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

but the Lord laughs at the wicked, for he knows their day is coming.

The One enthroned in heaven laughs; the Lord scoffs at them.

I in turn will laugh when disaster strikes you; I will mock when calamity overtakes you--

Here i present to you a miracle. God knows the future, but the wicked still shall not believe until they are burning in hell and the lambs in Heaven watch!
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Old Apr 12th, 2013, 11:47 PM   #75
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Re: Have you ever read Bible?

miracles miracles

i see life as a great miracles, i was saved 7 times from a terror attack so i totally see at as miracles.


i cant say or believe there is no god after all the things my ppl have been throw, i see our survival as a miracles

a mother carry 3, 4, 5, 6 babies in here and all of them are brought to life thats a miracles to me

ppl who Receiving organ donation and live their life are a miracles to me

i think the problem is that when ppl think about miracles they think about ppl hiding the moon or walking on air, u miss the little stuff that they are miracles
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