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Old Mar 23rd, 2013, 05:48 PM   #46
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Re: Miami coverage: ATP: 11 Matches vs. WTA: 4 Matches! DISCUSS!!!

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Originally Posted by pov View Post
Li - Lepchenko was on ESPN.
No they were on Tennis Channel. They are showing the Querrey match now.
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Old Mar 23rd, 2013, 05:52 PM   #47
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Re: Miami coverage: ATP: 11 Matches vs. WTA: 4 Matches! DISCUSS!!!

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Originally Posted by crescentmoon View Post
No they were on Tennis Channel. They are showing the Querrey match now.
ESPN3 showed it as well
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Old Mar 23rd, 2013, 05:54 PM   #48
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Re: Miami coverage: ATP: 11 Matches vs. WTA: 4 Matches! DISCUSS!!!

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Originally Posted by ShiftyFella View Post
Do you really think world wide tennis draws more people then NFL? I highly doubt you can gather around 20million viewers world wide for any given women's tennis match at any event outside slams, that's how many people on average watch NFL regular season in US alone. NBC averaged during regular season around 21 million and FOX 24
I said taking away the US figures. American sports are obviously more popular in the US but outside I think tennis is more popular in far more countries. Take the UK for example, the average NFL regular season game was getting less than 100,000 viewers (Sunday, 6pm/9pm GMT). Considering there are only 17 weeks of them that is very low. I think those sorts of figures are probably consistent throughout the rest of the world too.

I agree that in America there are many other sports which take priority (other sports take priority in every other country too). That doesn't mean tennis shouldn't be covered at all though and it certainly shouldn't mean a lack of international coverage.
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Old Mar 23rd, 2013, 05:58 PM   #49
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Re: Miami coverage: ATP: 11 Matches vs. WTA: 4 Matches! DISCUSS!!!

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Originally Posted by Third Mall View Post
Brings into question equal pay, doesn't it?

I mean, I know being nice dictates there should be equal pay but being fair and objective I think dictates there shouldn't be.

People will not like me for this comment but even as a fan of women's tennis over men's, I just can't understand how equal pay is justified.
People do want to see women's tennis. Sorry you don't and you spend your time here on a forum to discuss women's tennis. Furthermore, how exactly is equal pay not justified? The men are paid to win a match and the women are paid to win a match. You can't even use the more sets argument, since both men and women play best two of three here in Miami (as at Indian Wells). The ship has sailed on paying women less in the slams and at these joint events. The tournaments are invested in offering the same money to the men's and the women's tours. How the tours divvy up the prize money is up to the individual tours.

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ATP
Total Commitment $5,185,625
Fees, Bonus, Pool $855,000
Players Money $4,169,090


WTA Tour
Total Commitment $5,185,625
Fees, Bonus, Pool $989,860
Players Money $4,195,765
If it makes you feel better, most of the men's tournaments offer more prize money than do the women's tournaments. Therefore, the men still make more money than the women generally. Happy now?

PS: ESPN is showing the NIT Basketball tournament (for the lower ranked teams) and then the snooker equivalent, poker. Basically, what I'm saying is that ESPN is showing NIT basketball, and ESPN2 is showing women's march madness games not the men's tournament. The NCAA men's tourney is on channels unrelated to ESPN (CBS, etc.). Just to clarify for the minority who care about getting it right.

Last edited by edificio : Mar 23rd, 2013 at 06:03 PM.
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Old Mar 23rd, 2013, 06:11 PM   #50
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Re: Miami coverage: ATP: 11 Matches vs. WTA: 4 Matches! DISCUSS!!!

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Originally Posted by Third Mall View Post
I said taking away the US figures. American sports are obviously more popular in the US but outside I think tennis is more popular in far more countries. Take the UK for example, the average NFL regular season game was getting less than 100,000 viewers (Sunday, 6pm/9pm GMT). Considering there are only 17 weeks of them that is very low. I think those sorts of figures are probably consistent throughout the rest of the world too.

I agree that in America there are many other sports which take priority (other sports take priority in every other country too). That doesn't mean tennis shouldn't be covered at all though and it certainly shouldn't mean a lack of international coverage.
I have no doubt Tennis is more popular then NFL outside US but this means nothing if Tennis as a sport can't draw same amount of viewers world wide as some random Jaguars game in US.
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Old Mar 23rd, 2013, 06:39 PM   #51
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Re: Miami coverage: ATP: 11 Matches vs. WTA: 4 Matches! DISCUSS!!!

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Originally Posted by edificio View Post
People do want to see women's tennis. Sorry you don't and you spend your time here on a forum to discuss women's tennis. Furthermore, how exactly is equal pay not justified? The men are paid to win a match and the women are paid to win a match. You can't even use the more sets argument, since both men and women play best two of three here in Miami (as at Indian Wells). The ship has sailed on paying women less in the slams and at these joint events. The tournaments are invested in offering the same money to the men's and the women's tours. How the tours divvy up the prize money is up to the individual tours.

If it makes you feel better, most of the men's tournaments offer more prize money than do the women's tournaments. Therefore, the men still make more money than the women generally. Happy now?
Proving my point and you don't even realise it.

Ok first of all, I said that I preferred women's tennis over men's but you know I can actually look at something objectively and not have my judgement affected by personal preferences. Strange that, isn't it? If you made that comment as some sort of suggestion that if women weren't paid equal women's tennis wouldn't exist for me to watch, then that is complete rubbish.

Secondly, it's not about how much effort they put in or how many sets they play. Those are stupid reasons to argue against equal pay (in fact they are more stupid than the reasons for equal pay). Why don't we turn this into a discussion about any other sport played by men and women? Let's say, Football (soccer). The effort put in is fairly equal, they are both "paid to win". Why don't they get the same? Oh right, it's because one is clearly less popular (largely because of the lower standard of play). Granted, the popularity difference between them is far greater than in tennis, but in tennis there is still a difference and that difference should be reflected in prize money (as it is alot of the time by TV coverage and court allocation and always is by tournament schedules). Do you really think Errani deserved the same prize money from the 2012 French Open as Djokovic? Or Schiavone the same as Nadal two years earlier?

Now, I really don't want to argue about this (primarily because I can't be bothered) but I really don't want to get into a situation where I come across as anti-women's tennis (or, even worse, anti-women), because that's not what I am. I am a huge fan of it and have been since I was a kid and I wish it was as popular as it deserves to be, but it isn't. The only reason the women get what they get is because they play alongside the men. Take the men away, and their money goes down without a doubt (as suggested in the last statement you made). I would honestly put my life on that.

There's nothing we can do about this whole thing now, because decreasing women's prize money would be wrong and increasing men's is unnecessary just for the purpose of making the difference. So you could say I'm forcibly in favour of equal prize money as it is, even though the women have been fortunate.
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Old Mar 23rd, 2013, 06:51 PM   #52
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Re: Miami coverage: ATP: 11 Matches vs. WTA: 4 Matches! DISCUSS!!!

I will NEVER understand what is a reason for poor IW and Miami coverage, for both, ATP and WTA. It's ridiculous not to have coverage from round 1 on all bigger courts.
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Old Mar 23rd, 2013, 06:59 PM   #53
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Re: Miami coverage: ATP: 11 Matches vs. WTA: 4 Matches! DISCUSS!!!

TV channels get more spectators for ATP matches so of course more ATP matches are televised.

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Originally Posted by Olórin View Post
However, the point that I am interested in is the seemingly worsening international coverage of this event. The problem isn't the split between men and women's matches it's that so few of either are being shown. For an event of this calibre it's just not acceptable. The powers that be may or may not be justified in splitting coverage so lopsidedly when the pickings are slim - where are the proofs either way. Hard to prove that as many people wouldn't watch 11 women's matches if you don't actually show them. So no it doesn't bring equal pay into question, and that's not even the issue.
Yep, the biggest non-slam/YEC events should have coverage from all days of play.

And about that latter bolded part. More ATP matches are televised so more television revenue comes from ATP. That's why ATP would deserve a bigger part of prize money.

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Originally Posted by FORZA SARITA View Post
wish these combined tournaments were all like Rome who cover 3 courts from day1 and equal matches from ATP and WTA on every court
Italy's better success in women's than men's tennis has probably affected to the equal number of ATP & WTA matches, just like women's USO F had more TV audience than men's because of 1) better time and 2) an American finalist.
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Old Mar 23rd, 2013, 07:14 PM   #54
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Re: Miami coverage: ATP: 11 Matches vs. WTA: 4 Matches! DISCUSS!!!

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Originally Posted by FORZA SARITA View Post
wish these combined tournaments were all like Rome who cover 3 courts from day1 and equal matches from ATP and WTA on every court
Roma is a great tournament and yet still only a P5
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Old Mar 23rd, 2013, 07:28 PM   #55
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Re: Miami coverage: ATP: 11 Matches vs. WTA: 4 Matches! DISCUSS!!!

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I'd like to see Petko bashing Alja
How'd that work out for you?
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Old Mar 23rd, 2013, 07:59 PM   #56
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Re: Miami coverage: ATP: 11 Matches vs. WTA: 4 Matches! DISCUSS!!!

Venus as a player alongside BJK will forever be remembered by the WTA for being leaders in the fight for equal prize money for women. The Williamses brought tennis to prime time TV with their big game & fierce rivalry, now both of them are at the tail end of the careers, I would expect Stacy and other young top players to step in to promote the WTA, BUT instead they're sitting around hoping for miracles to happen ...NID the quality of play in the WTA has in general declined over the last few yrs except 4 the current top 5, that's perhaps why the 'equal prize money' debate has been resurrected.

However don't forget that the quality of play in the ATP outside the top 4 has also been inconsistent & crappy, I can name a zillion best of 3 matches which ended under one hour with bagels and bread sticks and deliberate tanking etc etc
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Old Mar 23rd, 2013, 08:57 PM   #57
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Re: Miami coverage: ATP: 11 Matches vs. WTA: 4 Matches! DISCUSS!!!

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Originally Posted by crescentmoon View Post
They could show some of the matches on ESPN but no, ESPN chooses to show the NCAA torunament which is on every channel for ESPN, I don't understand because tennis is such a better sport and much more popular here in the states and world wide.
are you sure youy even live in the states? what in your (in)sane mind makes you think that tennis is more popular than the NFL or MLB? do you live in an isolated lead fortress. as far as i know football and baseball are the main national sports. when has a grand slam match ever had 108 million US viewers? if you're gonna troll at least do it right and not some half-assed attempt as this.
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Old Mar 23rd, 2013, 09:00 PM   #58
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Re: Miami coverage: ATP: 11 Matches vs. WTA: 4 Matches! DISCUSS!!!

Miami has one of the worst TV coverage of WTA tennis among tier 1 tournaments + rain delays + quite low prize money , just a few steps down and it will fight with Madrid for the title "worst masters/premier tournament"
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Old Mar 23rd, 2013, 09:16 PM   #59
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Re: Miami coverage: ATP: 11 Matches vs. WTA: 4 Matches! DISCUSS!!!

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Miami has one of the worst TV coverage of WTA tennis among tier 1 tournaments + rain delays + quite low prize money , just a few steps down and it will fight with Madrid for the title "worst masters/premier tournament"
dont the women get paid more than the men in miami?
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Old Mar 23rd, 2013, 09:17 PM   #60
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Re: Miami coverage: ATP: 11 Matches vs. WTA: 4 Matches! DISCUSS!!!

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Can't see whats wrong here. Who is lining up to see women's matches?
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Originally Posted by Third Mall View Post
Brings into question equal pay, doesn't it?

I mean, I know being nice dictates there should be equal pay but being fair and objective I think dictates there shouldn't be.

People will not like me for this comment but even as a fan of women's tennis over men's, I just can't understand how equal pay is justified.
Can we ban these sexist idiots? Every time there's a thread about atp vs. wta there's always some assholes shitting all over the WTA. GTFO and go post on MTF.
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