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Old Feb 11th, 2013, 10:34 PM   #46
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Re: Doha 1R: (13) Ivanovic crushes Paszek 6-1 6-2

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Originally Posted by Cajka View Post
But why? Aren't there more successful players you dislike, Vika, Aga... Ana was there for only two years and disappeared forever. OTOH, Vika is not going anywhere, she'll torture us all you for years.
She's pretty much the only player I've disliked ever since I joined TF. I don't hate her though nor do I want her to fall off a cliff and die (unlike certain trolls) It's all in good fun and since most Ana fans are pretty cool (I'm friends with a lot of them actually), they get that I'm just kidding around.
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Old Feb 11th, 2013, 10:45 PM   #47
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Re: Doha 1R: (13) Ivanovic crushes Paszek 6-1 6-2

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She's pretty much the only player I've disliked ever since I joined TF. I don't hate her though nor do I want her to fall off a cliff and die (unlike certain trolls) It's all in good fun and since most Ana fans are pretty cool (I'm friends with a lot of them actually), they get that I'm just kidding around.
Gurl you need to get onto the Vulgarenka wagon then and stick them pins to prevent her winning any more slams than she deserves It's saying something if I prefer Maria to Vulgarenka
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Old Feb 11th, 2013, 10:51 PM   #48
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Re: Doha 1R: (13) Ivanovic crushes Paszek 6-1 6-2

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She's pretty much the only player I've disliked ever since I joined TF. I don't hate her though nor do I want her to fall off a cliff and die (unlike certain trolls)
I must say it's funny. I don't care about the hate, I only wish she gave people a proper reason to hate (some good results, for example). But they get worked up over nothing, that match she played on RLA is a perfect example. Those crying bitches went nuts like she won a slam.

The Masha hate is another phenomenon. She says she'd like to be an actress and the whole board gets a nervous breakdown.
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Old Feb 11th, 2013, 11:03 PM   #49
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Re: Doha 1R: (13) Ivanovic crushes Paszek 6-1 6-2

Let's hope it happens again, Silverslam

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Originally Posted by dsanders06 View Post
What kind of revisionist history is this? Firstly, even in her glory days, Ana topping 120mph was EXTREMELY rare. I'm guessing if you take a typical match now to a typical match in 2007-8, and compare the average first serve speed, there'd be less than 5mph difference (I didn't deny her serve had deteriorated, I just said it had deteriorated FAR, far less than her groundstrokes). Since she fixed her ball-toss (which is only very rarely an issue these days) in 2011, Ivanovic has had one of the most serve-reliant games on the WTA, which is why she gets her best results on quick surfaces these days in stark contrast to her peak. Her serve is still top 10 standard, her groundgame is probably sub-top 20 on most days
As usual you're wrong, but please by all means, continue to dazzle this forum with your ignorance. I said Ivanovic COULD reach the lower 120s mph; I didn't say it happened all the time. The average first service speed difference is definitely more than 5 mph, probably between 10 and 15 mph as I already explained in my earlier post. A 10 to 15 mph difference is huge at this level. Also, her ball toss is still an issue, or are you telling me you didn't see her chasing it during her AO matches? Her ball toss is slightly improved but it's not "fixed" by any means. When you're used to having a great serve and it is no longer so efficient, you feel pressure on other parts of your game. That's what happened.
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Old Feb 11th, 2013, 11:06 PM   #50
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Re: Doha 1R: (13) Ivanovic crushes Paszek 6-1 6-2

Nice! Glad she is healthy
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Old Feb 11th, 2013, 11:40 PM   #51
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Re: Doha 1R: (13) Ivanovic crushes Paszek 6-1 6-2

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Originally Posted by hankqq View Post
As usual you're wrong, but please by all means, continue to dazzle this forum with your ignorance. I said Ivanovic COULD reach the lower 120s mph; I didn't say it happened all the time.
Yes, she reached it like 3 or 4 times maximum in her life. To suggest her serve is nowhere what it once was purely because she hasn't recreated those handful of flukey, freakish occurrences of very high speeds is absurd. It would be like me saying Maria's serve has "declined" since she hit those two 120mph serves in the grasscourt season of 2010

Quote:
The average first service speed difference is definitely more than 5 mph, probably between 10 and 15 mph as I already explained in my earlier post. A 10 to 15 mph difference is huge at this level.
Revisionism.
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Old Feb 11th, 2013, 11:43 PM   #52
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Re: Doha 1R: (13) Ivanovic crushes Paszek 6-1 6-2

I would say that on average Ana's first serve average at her peak was possibly around 175-180kph. Nowadays it's around 165-175 to be honest. Not to mention not being nearly as reliable as it was before because of that ball toss. Still chasing the ball, unfortunately.
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Old Feb 11th, 2013, 11:48 PM   #53
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Re: Doha 1R: (13) Ivanovic crushes Paszek 6-1 6-2

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Originally Posted by dsanders06 View Post
Yes, she reached it like 3 or 4 times maximum in her life. To suggest her serve is nowhere what it once was purely because she hasn't recreated those handful of flukey, freakish occurrences of very high speeds is absurd. It would be like me saying Maria's serve has "declined" since she hit those two 120mph serves in the grasscourt season of 2010
Ana was hitting 120 mph serves regularly in 2006. That's the reason why she usually had a very low 1st serve %. Later she started serving a bit slower but she was still able to hit 120 mph serves in 2007 (when she hit one of the fastest serves ever) and 2008. After that she was usually topping at 185 and lately at 175. Her serve used to be a weapon, now it's fine in general (mostly against lower-ranked players) and occasionally horrible.

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Originally Posted by tennisbear7 View Post
I would say that on average Ana's first serve average at her peak was possibly around 175-180kph. Nowadays it's around 165-175 to be honest.
165-175 is not Ana's average first serve speed. It's around 160. And her average first serve speed in 2006 was probably around 175.
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Old Feb 11th, 2013, 11:49 PM   #54
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Re: Doha 1R: (13) Ivanovic crushes Paszek 6-1 6-2

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Originally Posted by tennisbear7 View Post
I would say that on average Ana's first serve average at her peak was possibly around 175-180kph. Nowadays it's around 165-175 to be honest. Not to mention not being nearly as reliable as it was before because of that ball toss. Still chasing the ball, unfortunately.
She had problems with her ball toss even at her peak
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Old Feb 11th, 2013, 11:50 PM   #55
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Re: Doha 1R: (13) Ivanovic crushes Paszek 6-1 6-2

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She had problems with her ball toss even at her peak
She had fewer problems and it was more consistent before. Now it's just a complete mess
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Old Feb 11th, 2013, 11:52 PM   #56
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Re: Doha 1R: (13) Ivanovic crushes Paszek 6-1 6-2

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Originally Posted by Cajka View Post
I agree. It looked like it was almost fixed in the end of 2010, but when she fired Heinz and lost a lot of weight, it regressed significantly. Her serve and her backhand are the parts of her game that regressed the most after 2008. Her forehand is not what it used to be, but that shot solely is the reason why she's top 15. OK together with her somewhat improved mentality (compared to her worst slumping days).
I don't think her backhand regressed at all, the only reason why it looks good is because she is playing well. As a top player you need to pull through even if you are playing awful, her backhand now is more consistent that ever and doesn't fall apart anymore, as forehand is her main weapon, you need every other shot to be at the very least consistent.
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Old Feb 11th, 2013, 11:52 PM   #57
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Re: Doha 1R: (13) Ivanovic crushes Paszek 6-1 6-2

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Originally Posted by tennisbear7 View Post
I would say that on average Ana's first serve average at her peak was possibly around 175-180kph. Nowadays it's around 165-175 to be honest. Not to mention not being nearly as reliable as it was before because of that ball toss. Still chasing the ball, unfortunately.
And the difference between 165kph and 175kph is pretty much exactly a 5mph difference, like I said

Again, I didn't deny her serve is less effective than it used to be. My point is she's had a ~5mph dropoff (and I'd say around a 10-15% dropoff in terms of overall effectiveness), compared to I would say about a 40% dropoff in the quality of her groundstrokes compared to her peak. My only point was that the difference between how powerfully she serves now and how she used to is nowhere near as stark as that poster was making out And her balltoss might still cause her some issues, but it's been pretty infrequent thesedays (and let's be honest, even in 2007-8 she would occasionally struggle with her balltoss -- the RG final in 2007? the matches against Venus in '07?). And her serve is certainly the most effective part of her game nowadays.
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Old Feb 11th, 2013, 11:58 PM   #58
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Re: Doha 1R: (13) Ivanovic crushes Paszek 6-1 6-2

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I don't think her backhand regressed at all, the only reason why it looks good is because she is playing well. As a top player you need to pull through even if you are playing awful, her backhand now is more consistent that ever and doesn't fall apart anymore, as forehand is her main weapon, you need every other shot to be at the very least consistent.
It was always her weaker wing, but it was rarely awful. On slow surfaces it was even fine, now it's a mess even on her best surfaces. We must agree to disagree and perhaps I'm too harsh on my faves, but I honestly believe that Ana has one of the worst backhand in top 100.
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Old Feb 12th, 2013, 12:01 AM   #59
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Re: Doha 1R: (13) Ivanovic crushes Paszek 6-1 6-2

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Originally Posted by dsanders06 View Post
And the difference between 165kph and 175kph is pretty much exactly a 5mph difference, like I said

Again, I didn't deny her serve is less effective than it used to be. My point is she's had a ~5mph dropoff (and I'd say around a 10-15% dropoff in terms of overall effectiveness), compared to I would say about a 40% dropoff in the quality of her groundstrokes compared to her peak. My only point was that the difference between how powerfully she serves now and how she used to is nowhere near as stark as that poster was making out And her balltoss might still cause her some issues, but it's been pretty infrequent thesedays (and let's be honest, even in 2007-8 she would occasionally struggle with her balltoss -- the RG final in 2007? the matches against Venus in '07?). And her serve is certainly the most effective part of her game nowadays.
There's pretty much nothing effective about Ana's game nowadays, so you're wrong on that front.

Also I reckon 5mph is pretty substantial. It's meant the difference between having someone returning the ball (where Ana will pretty much screw it up ) and them not touching the ball.
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Old Feb 12th, 2013, 12:29 AM   #60
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Re: Doha 1R: (13) Ivanovic crushes Paszek 6-1 6-2

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She had fewer problems and it was more consistent before. Now it's just a complete mess
True, but in her earlier peak days, it broke down in clutch moments; i.e. RG '07 final. But that was understandable.

I remember her match vs. Radwanska in Melbourne this year in which you could just tell by the ball toss that she was about to hit a DF. Her shot selection has gotten quite awful.
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