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Old Jan 29th, 2013, 03:15 PM   #31
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Re: Agassi: Graf would be the best in today's game

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Old Jan 29th, 2013, 03:16 PM   #32
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Re: Agassi: Graf would be the best in today's game

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I disagree. Either way it would be close and not the slam-dunk you make it out to be. If Henin, Raadwanska can deal with Williams' power enough to give her close matches to say that a peak Graf couldn't is looney. Not to mention that I'm not sure Williams is the hardest hitter on tour.

BTW #1 is always "on paper."
I know Henin was a tough opponent for Serena, but maybe Henin in her prime is better than Graf. I know some will laugh at that, but Henin played in a way tougher era and her career was basically over at 25 so I dont think stats alone tell who is better at their best. Anyway all of Henin's success vs Serena is based on either:

-clay court matches, and I concede Graf is better than Serena on clay, and Henin might be even better than Graf on clay anyway, some consider her the #2 or #1 clay courter of all time after all.

-Their 2007 matches, and I would say Henin in 2007 was at a higher level than Graf ever was in sheer playing level, regardless of stats. Apart from grass of course but a healthy and in form Serena, even not at her best, would always crush Henin on grass anyway.

-The 2004-2006 period when Serena was at her worst ever anyway.


Comparing Henin to Graf Henin has a way better backhand, much better return of serve, is better at the net, has more variety, moved nearly as well and overall played better defense. Graf had a much better serve and forehand of course.


As for Radwanska she is no competition for Serena, fluke 1 set won in the Wimbledon final aside. Anyway that is Serena at 31, what were Graf and Seles doing at 30? Yeah they were retired.
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Old Jan 29th, 2013, 03:17 PM   #33
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Re: Agassi: Graf would be the best in today's game

O boy when will this madness stop?
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Old Jan 29th, 2013, 03:18 PM   #34
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Re: Agassi: (peak) Graf would be the best in today's game

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I know it's a stunning revelation isn't it? Next they'll be telling us that if Jimi Hendrix had lived he'd be a mean guitar picker.
Eddie would fookin murder Jimi Hendrix
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Old Jan 29th, 2013, 03:20 PM   #35
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Re: Agassi: Graf would be the best in today's game

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O boy when will this madness stop?
When the stabbing gets brought up, the thread turns nasty and it gets locked.

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Originally Posted by nishikorifan View Post
I know Henin was a tough opponent for Serena, but maybe Henin in her prime is better than Graf. I know some will laugh at that, but Henin played in a way tougher era and her career was basically over at 25 so I dont think stats alone tell who is better at their best. Anyway all of Henin's success vs Serena is based on either:

-clay court matches, and I concede Graf is better than Serena on clay, and Henin might be even better than Graf on clay anyway, some consider her the #2 or #1 clay courter of all time after all.

-Their 2007 matches, and I would say Henin in 2007 was at a higher level than Graf ever was in sheer playing level, regardless of stats. Apart from grass of course but a healthy and in form Serena, even not at her best, would always crush Henin on grass anyway.

-The 2004-2006 period when Serena was at her worst ever anyway.


Comparing Henin to Graf Henin has a way better backhand, much better return of serve, is better at the net, has more variety, moved nearly as well and overall played better defense. Graf had a much better serve and forehand of course.


As for Radwanska she is no competition for Serena, fluke 1 set won in the Wimbledon final aside. Anyway that is Serena at 31, what were Graf and Seles doing at 30? Yeah they were retired.
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Old Jan 29th, 2013, 03:22 PM   #36
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Re: Agassi: Graf would be the best in today's game

Graf would be a different player in the current era. Who knows if she would even hit that backhand slice? Players would eventually get used to it, and learn to hit through it. And with improved racket and string tech, her regular backhand could turn into a weapon. That changes the mechanics and tactics of her game etc. etc.

So basically, we'll never know. Like every peak v. peak thread spanning different eras.
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Old Jan 29th, 2013, 03:23 PM   #37
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Re: Agassi: Graf would be the best in today's game

I see no lies
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Old Jan 29th, 2013, 03:26 PM   #38
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Re: Agassi: Graf would be the best in today's game

She would definietly be a force. With footwork like that it's hard not to be. And if Graf wasn't up to par with something with today's generation she would master it and that would be it. Her work ethic is crazy.
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Old Jan 29th, 2013, 03:31 PM   #39
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Re: Agassi: Graf would be the best in today's game

Ask Coetzer.
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Old Jan 29th, 2013, 03:39 PM   #40
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Re: Agassi: Graf would be the best in today's game

Steffi beat Serena twice in three matches - all of which were fantastically competitive from start to finish.

So if fraulein can keep up with the current best - then of course she can wipe the floor with the rest.
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Old Jan 29th, 2013, 03:41 PM   #41
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Re: Agassi: (peak) Graf would be the best in today's game

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So obsessesed
You do know which desperate troll started the thread with his tabloid-like title, and who it was directed at.

Have you not heard of the term riposte?
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Old Jan 29th, 2013, 03:42 PM   #42
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Re: Agassi: Graf would be the best in today's game

Steffi would hit top spin BH more often with today's strings
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Old Jan 29th, 2013, 03:42 PM   #43
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Re: Agassi: Graf would be the best in today's game

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Steffi beat Serena twice in three matches - all of which were fantastically competitive.

So if fraulein can keep up with Rena - then of course she can wipe the floor with the rest.
One was an exhibition which doesn't count no matter how much Graf-tards want it to. Nevertheless I think Steffi showed she could be competitive with any version of Serena in those matches which were very entertaining, just a shame we never got to see more GOAT vs GOAT play.
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Old Jan 29th, 2013, 03:47 PM   #44
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Re: Agassi: Graf would be the best in today's game

I love all this "Graf couldn't handle Seles" nonsense. Someone please look at their h2h.

Graf could probably be top 10 if she were healthy and came back today.
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Old Jan 29th, 2013, 03:48 PM   #45
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Re: Agassi: Graf would be the best in today's game

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One was an exhibition which doesn't count no matter how much Graf-tards want it to.
H2H doesn't mean anything, plus that was Retirement Grandma Graf vs Baby Serena.

Still though, if you watch that "exhibition" than you can see both players were treating it just as serious as a real match: Serena almost fell over trying to run down balls, Graf was doing that same talking to herself to get pumped up thing, etc.

That event was nothing like the exhibitions of today; obviously WTA won't count it as an official match but given that it's one of the 3 recorded meetings between two tier 1 GOATs, it probably deserves to be counted.
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