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Old Jan 22nd, 2013, 01:37 PM   #31
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Re: What is tennis?

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Originally Posted by bobito View Post
Yes let's look at Henin. She had the most incredible armoury of shots of any player of recent times. She could hit with any spin of either wing cross court or down the line, all with aggressive intent. In order to do that she needed incredible technique and footwork. That's what it takes to be a successful aggressive player in the modern game if you are as small as Justine was. You need quality and variety of skills that the likes of Sharapova, Azarenka, Kvitova, even Williams can only dream of.

That is why Henin was one of a kind and why other small players are less agressive. For a small player to be successful they either have to be a tennis genius or they need to outwit their opponents and draw errors out of them. And that is what many of them are doing. Players like Radwanska and Errani are not "pushers" waiting for their opponent to make an error. They are tactical players, inducing those errors. They do what their opponent least wants them to do.

Perhaps part of the problem is the black and white definition tennis has of "forced" and "unforsed" errors. When players hit what are listed as "unforced errors" against players like Radwanska or Errani, those errors have been induced by clever play. The player is often off balance when playing the shot or cramped for room because of a cleverly placed ball or perhaps thrown by a change of pace or spin. In that instance the error may not have been "forced" by the opponent but it has certainly been earned.

Personally I love watching crafty players. Last year I sat grinding my teeth whenever some idiot posted a thread entitled "Sluggerova saves WTA, def Errani/Radwanska". Saved the WTA from what? From skill, tactical nous and variety?

That myth that Williams doesn't have variety is such a misinformed notion. Williams HAS skills but barely ever needs to showcase them since she's by far the best player to ever grace this planet (female athlete). Her volley is brilliant except for those awkward mistimed ones. She produces wonderfully disguised dropshots, and slices when needed, dont even get me started on the sublime ball striking and angle and smashes and serve, and tactical play. Tennis genius if there ever was one!
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Old Jan 22nd, 2013, 01:39 PM   #32
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Re: Are pushers bad for tennis?

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Originally Posted by Start da Game View Post
pushers are good for the sport.....they let the arrogant attacking ones beat themselves......it is fun to watch......
As long as they don't win when it matters( majors tournaments) I'm OK with that.
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Old Jan 22nd, 2013, 01:41 PM   #33
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Re: Are pushers bad for tennis?

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As long as they don't win when it matters( majors tournaments) I'm OK with that.
Explain why please.
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Old Jan 22nd, 2013, 01:45 PM   #34
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Re: Are pushers bad for tennis?

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Explain why please.
his signature explains everything
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Old Jan 22nd, 2013, 01:47 PM   #35
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Re: Are pushers bad for tennis?

I only just noticed the thread title was changed? Pushers definitely aren't bad for tennis. I mean any contrast in gamestyles would surely be good for the sport.
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Old Jan 22nd, 2013, 01:54 PM   #36
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Re: Are pushers bad for tennis?

I don't mind some pushers, but you can easily tell when players push, to me pushers always seem stiff in their approaches, some players games are pretty horrible, Kerber in particular pushes a lot, bending low and hitting too many erratic shots; however pushers can be successful, Kerber, Wozniacki and others have had success, they have won tournaments and are in the top ten of the WTA rankings for a reason, if you Tennis fans like it or not. Is this because the WTA isn't that good at the moment, or are the likes of Kerber actually very good players, her pushing game is annoying, but sometimes she hits some very good shots, she has very good power and hits balls into the right areas. Radwanska did a lot of pushing against Li, she seemed nervous, tentative with her game, her game is usually much better than that, I love the way she can mix up her play, she has great variety in my opinion.

I prefer players with power, or can mix their play up, that's why I like Errani and Radwanska, Errani isn't powerful, but I like how she has variety in her game, her dropshots when she reached the French Open final last year, was a joy to watch, Radwanska has had brilliant success so far this year, last year she was consistent and reached her first Grand Slam final, taking a set of Serena despite being ill.

Pushers can be annoying, but they are not necessarily bad for Tennis, these pushers have had success, these certain pushers are or have been in the top ten of the World rankings for a reason.
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Old Jan 22nd, 2013, 02:00 PM   #37
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Re: Are pushers bad for tennis?

It would be boring if everyone played the same style of tennis I think. Variety in styles is good for tennis.
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Old Jan 22nd, 2013, 02:04 PM   #38
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Re: What is tennis?

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Originally Posted by lbristol View Post
That myth that Williams doesn't have variety is such a misinformed notion. Williams HAS skills but barely ever needs to showcase them since she's by far the best player to ever grace this planet (female athlete). Her volley is brilliant except for those awkward mistimed ones. She produces wonderfully disguised dropshots, and slices when needed, dont even get me started on the sublime ball striking and angle and smashes and serve, and tactical play. Tennis genius if there ever was one!
Not disputing that. Notice how I wrote "even Williams" intentionally putting her a class apart from the other three mentioned in this regard. But the variety of shot and skill of execution, not to mention the tactical nous to know which shot to use, that Henin had was on a different level again. If it wasn't then she wouldn't have had such a close H2H with Serena, given the power and size difference.

To play like Henin requires mastery of every shot, the tactical nous to make the right shot selection from such a wide repertoire and outstanding footwork to get into position to play such shots. Such players are extremely rare. That was my point in replying to Moby's comment. Expecting small players to play like Henin is unreasonable.
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Old Jan 22nd, 2013, 02:12 PM   #39
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Re: What is tennis?

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Originally Posted by Fighterpova View Post
I don't hate any players, just to say that.

However, I see why so many people dislike counterpunchers as well as myself. They are just not interesting to watch in my opinion I know it takes great tennis skills to retrieve as many balls as Radwanska does, however, it's not appealing to the eye

Congrats to her and fighting and all, but I just can't sit through any of her matches, she bores me to death.
Matter of taste, i can't stand BBB's where there's more action from the ballkids than the players just because the ball is actually seldom in play. Pusher against pusher at least means that you get to actually watch some tennis, often interesting tennis as well as both players try to outsmart each other. What is the joy if the BBB strikes a beautiful if lucky winner if the next 5 shots'll go out and you know it in advance.
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Old Jan 22nd, 2013, 02:19 PM   #40
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Re: What is tennis?

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Originally Posted by StoneRose View Post
Matter of taste, i can't stand BBB's where there's more action from the ballkids than the players just because the ball is actually seldom in play. Pusher against pusher at least means that you get to actually watch some tennis, often interesting tennis as well as both players try to outsmart each other. What is the joy if the BBB strikes a beautiful if lucky winner if the next 5 shots'll go out and you know it in advance.
Interestingly the big hitters often play better when they play each other. How often have you heard commentators say of such players "she likes pace on the ball". In other words, she doesn't like an opponent with the skill and tactical nous to bugger up her timing.
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Old Jan 22nd, 2013, 02:21 PM   #41
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Re: Are pushers bad for tennis?

Pushers are good for the game, only problem is that majority of fans find their technique archaic & somewhat fabian ...it's like medieval warfare involving archery vs modern warfare involving artillery & missiles (effective high calibre weaponry)

As such, pushers arent highly marketable - hard to sell their product coz they're considered old school boring
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Old Jan 22nd, 2013, 02:24 PM   #42
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Re: Are pushers bad for tennis?

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Old Jan 22nd, 2013, 02:26 PM   #43
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Re: Are pushers bad for tennis?

am I banned?
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Old Jan 22nd, 2013, 02:30 PM   #44
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Re: What is tennis?

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Originally Posted by bobito View Post
Not disputing that. Notice how I wrote "even Williams" intentionally putting her a class apart from the other three mentioned in this regard. But the variety of shot and skill of execution, not to mention the tactical nous to know which shot to use, that Henin had was on a different level again. If it wasn't then she wouldn't have had such a close H2H with Serena, given the power and size difference.

To play like Henin requires mastery of every shot, the tactical nous to make the right shot selection from such a wide repertoire and outstanding footwork to get into position to play such shots. Such players are extremely rare. That was my point in replying to Moby's comment. Expecting small players to play like Henin is unreasonable.
I disagree. Your assertion is that Williams doesn't possess that variety of shots and knowledge of execution because arguably you haven't seen such skills on display. And I contend that the reason why she doesn't showcase though is simply because she doesn't need to. Against Sharapova last year she produced just a couple of beautiful slices to set up the point because she had to otherwise, it's enough to serve and go for the v-tactic she's that good. If Henin wasn't good enough to dispose of her opponents quickly enough, her fault.
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Old Jan 22nd, 2013, 02:32 PM   #45
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Re: What is tennis?

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Originally Posted by Sir Stefwhit View Post
This isn't ice skating or gymnastics, so you don't get extra points for style and artistry. It's a fair and objective racquet and ball sport.

A sport with set rules and equipment....the end. It's the players job to secure a win by ANY means within the rules. This includes under-hand serves, ball bashing, counter punching, winning ugly...and so on.

It's true some people have a preference for the kinds of players they like and the kinds of tennis they like, but every one has their own view on the subject.

We should collectively thank God that there aren't any subjective elements in our sport.
Speaking as an ice skating and gymnastics fan it's nice that people with agendas can't influence the outcome. Can you imagine if artistry was a part of getting points...like I said, thank god it's not.
Exactly,that is all that's to it. If someone doesn't like a particular style that's just a matter of preferences.There's no such a 'this is how tennis is played' thing.
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