When and why did speed become less important? - Page 6 - TennisForum.com
TennisForum.com   Wagerline.com MensTennisForums.com TennisUniverse.com
TennisForum.com is the premier Women's Tennis forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.Please Register - It's Free!
Reply

Old Jan 17th, 2013, 10:24 AM   #76
country flag Pops Maellard
Quiche
 
Pops Maellard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Gothenburg
Posts: 41,423
Pops Maellard has a reputation beyond repute Pops Maellard has a reputation beyond repute Pops Maellard has a reputation beyond repute Pops Maellard has a reputation beyond repute Pops Maellard has a reputation beyond repute Pops Maellard has a reputation beyond repute Pops Maellard has a reputation beyond repute Pops Maellard has a reputation beyond repute Pops Maellard has a reputation beyond repute Pops Maellard has a reputation beyond repute Pops Maellard has a reputation beyond repute
Re: When and why did speed become less important?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crater718 View Post
I want both . A players that hits like a freight train and runs like a gazelle.
Peak Venus .
__________________
I'm feelin' they jealous, like I'm Monica Seles.

Maria
Venus
ANA
Petra
Pops Maellard is online now View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old May 1st, 2014, 12:20 AM   #77
country flag shap_half
Senior Member
 
shap_half's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 12,443
shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute
Re: When and why did speed become less important?

Reviving this in light of the emergence of a couple of new players since then, namely Halep and Bouchard. And as a massive champion of the argument that superior movement is necessary in succeeding in this sport, I don't think it's for nothing that Ivanovic recent upswing has come when she's started moving around the court as well. Obviously movement isn't everything, but it would be nice to see these girls play closer attention to it.
shap_half is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2014, 01:49 AM   #78
country flag TennisGhost
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 4,119
TennisGhost has a reputation beyond repute TennisGhost has a reputation beyond repute TennisGhost has a reputation beyond repute TennisGhost has a reputation beyond repute TennisGhost has a reputation beyond repute TennisGhost has a reputation beyond repute TennisGhost has a reputation beyond repute TennisGhost has a reputation beyond repute TennisGhost has a reputation beyond repute TennisGhost has a reputation beyond repute TennisGhost has a reputation beyond repute
Re: When and why did speed become less important?

Good topic.
TennisGhost is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2014, 02:06 AM   #79
country flag jay holter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 624
jay holter has much to be proud of jay holter has much to be proud of jay holter has much to be proud of jay holter has much to be proud of jay holter has much to be proud of jay holter has much to be proud of jay holter has much to be proud of jay holter has much to be proud of jay holter has much to be proud of jay holter has much to be proud of jay holter has much to be proud of
Re: When and why did speed become less important?

Players in the current top 10 I'd call quick: Serena, Li, Radwanska, Halep, Jankovic, Kerber, and Cibulkova.

That's 7 players out of the top 10. Really I think you're just sort of singling out Sharapova, Azarenka, and Kvitova here. Sharapova isn't quick but she gets the most out of her movement with good footwork, ditto for Azarenka. Kvitova not so much, and you can argue that that's one reason among a few others for why she hasn't had success on the level of those two.

Speed and movement in general are definitely still quite important.
jay holter is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2014, 03:02 AM   #80
country flag Crater718
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,126
Crater718 is a splendid one to behold Crater718 is a splendid one to behold Crater718 is a splendid one to behold Crater718 is a splendid one to behold Crater718 is a splendid one to behold Crater718 is a splendid one to behold Crater718 is a splendid one to behold Crater718 is a splendid one to behold Crater718 is a splendid one to behold Crater718 is a splendid one to behold Crater718 is a splendid one to behold
Re: When and why did speed become less important?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jay holter View Post
Players in the current top 10 I'd call quick: Serena, Li, Radwanska, Halep, Jankovic, Kerber, and Cibulkova.

That's 7 players out of the top 10. Really I think you're just sort of singling out Sharapova, Azarenka, and Kvitova here. Sharapova isn't quick but she gets the most out of her movement with good footwork, ditto for Azarenka. Kvitova not so much, and you can argue that that's one reason among a few others for why she hasn't had success on the level of those two.

Speed and movement in general are definitely still quite important.
But what about these types of players:

Quote:
A players that hits like a freight train and runs like a gazelle.
__________________
I'm just too lazy to go to the US Open.
Crater718 is online now View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2014, 03:45 AM   #81
country flag floco
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 871
floco has a brilliant future floco has a brilliant future floco has a brilliant future floco has a brilliant future floco has a brilliant future floco has a brilliant future floco has a brilliant future floco has a brilliant future floco has a brilliant future floco has a brilliant future floco has a brilliant future
Re: When and why did speed become less important?

I kind of disagree with that statement. I personally think you need to be extremely good at defending (=faster) to reach the top nowadays. Look at Serena for example. Her game has changed since the 2000's (with big hitters like Davenport and Pierce). Serena defends much better now I think. Look at Cornet's success this year. The thing is not many players/coaches have realized how important being fast is nowadays (especially with slower courts). Azarenka is another one that comes to mind who was able to develop her defensive game nicely. Radwanska, Kerber, Cibulkova... are all fast players. If they had bigger weapons in their game, they'd be ranked even higher. When I see some youngsters like Mladenovic who can hit the ball so well but can barely run... it makes me cringe!
Also, if you look at the ATP's best players. Nadal has to be one of the quickest players of all time. Djokovic is now incredibly fit/fast, and so is Murray. Speed is EXTREMELY important nowadays.
__________________
Amelie

Kuznetsova - Rezai - Razzano - Mladenovic - Cornet - Garcia - Larriere - Zheng - Hesse - Sibille
floco is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2014, 03:51 AM   #82
country flag spencercarlos
Sabatini lover Forever
 
spencercarlos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Venezuela
Posts: 15,123
spencercarlos has a reputation beyond repute spencercarlos has a reputation beyond repute spencercarlos has a reputation beyond repute spencercarlos has a reputation beyond repute spencercarlos has a reputation beyond repute spencercarlos has a reputation beyond repute spencercarlos has a reputation beyond repute spencercarlos has a reputation beyond repute spencercarlos has a reputation beyond repute spencercarlos has a reputation beyond repute spencercarlos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: When and why did speed become less important?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcana View Post
You're not totally off the mark, just somewhat.

Speed hasn't become irrelevant. Players who don't move well can win a slam here and there, but unless they excel at pretty much ALL the other aspects of the game, their results inevitably fall off. Still, the reality of today's game is that you have to be able to hit the ball hard. The last big time winner we had who didn't hit te ball hard was Hingis. (Which speaks to how unique a talent she was.)

NOTE: I disagree with you about about Azarenka. She's not super-fast, but she's WAY faster than Kvitova or Sharapova.
Vika Azarenka V.A also has great anticipation and guessing..
__________________
Gabriela Sabatini 2006 HOF
18 Grand Slam SF´s, Won 27 titles, 1 GS Sin, 1 GS in Dubs,2 Masters
Sabatini vs Martinez ?
Seasons in the top ten: Sabatini 10 Conchita 9
Straight Seasons in the top ten: Sabatini 10 Conchita 6
Seasons in the top 5: Sabatini 6 Conchita 5
Straight seasons in the top 5: Sabatini 6 Conchita 4
Tier II and above titles
Sabatini 24 Martinez 17
Record at the Masters
Sabatini has 2 titles 2 Runner up and 3 SF
Martinez has 0 titles, 0 RU, and 0 Sf
Record against the best players
Sabatini 40% Martinez 21%
Head to Head
Sabatini leads 9-6 over Martinez
FWTT Hard 111(111 + ny)Carpet 104(104 + ny)Clay 107(107 + 4) Grass 100(100 ny)
spencercarlos is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2014, 04:54 AM   #83
faboozadoo15
Senior Member
 
faboozadoo15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: united states
Posts: 19,582
faboozadoo15 has a reputation beyond repute faboozadoo15 has a reputation beyond repute faboozadoo15 has a reputation beyond repute faboozadoo15 has a reputation beyond repute faboozadoo15 has a reputation beyond repute faboozadoo15 has a reputation beyond repute faboozadoo15 has a reputation beyond repute faboozadoo15 has a reputation beyond repute faboozadoo15 has a reputation beyond repute faboozadoo15 has a reputation beyond repute faboozadoo15 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: When and why did speed become less important?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pov View Post
The idea that any of those players is more athletic than Azarenka, Radwanska, Kerber, Wozniacki, etc is ludicrous. Quicker? Maybe but I'm not convinced. More athletic, greater endurance? No, not at all. Plus the ball is generally moving faster than it ever has.
Hingis is super weak, but Capriati and Clijsters were total jocks. They had natural athletic prowess and coordination.
faboozadoo15 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2014, 05:04 AM   #84
faboozadoo15
Senior Member
 
faboozadoo15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: united states
Posts: 19,582
faboozadoo15 has a reputation beyond repute faboozadoo15 has a reputation beyond repute faboozadoo15 has a reputation beyond repute faboozadoo15 has a reputation beyond repute faboozadoo15 has a reputation beyond repute faboozadoo15 has a reputation beyond repute faboozadoo15 has a reputation beyond repute faboozadoo15 has a reputation beyond repute faboozadoo15 has a reputation beyond repute faboozadoo15 has a reputation beyond repute faboozadoo15 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: When and why did speed become less important?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcana View Post

Let's call Davenport vs Sharapova a wash.
On sheer speed of foot, I'd take Wozniacki over everybody else from that era. No power, but wheels, wheels, wheels.
Peak Azarenka vs Peak Capriati would be a very even match.

Was Henin a better ATHLETE than Radwanska? Not to my eye. She was a much better PLAYER, mentally and physically, but not a better athlete. maybe the better comparison, athletically, is Sara Errani.

Mauresmo vs Stosur?

The real outlier is Clijsters. A big strong fast ..... retriever!?!?!?
Come on, Maria is much faster than Davenport.

Capriati was an all-around jock (like Clijsters), and Vika is a strong girl who plays a smart game.

You don't think Henin was more athletic than Radwanska? She was faster, stronger, hit harder, used heavy spin, had better coordination.....
faboozadoo15 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2014, 06:49 AM   #85
country flag TennisGhost
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 4,119
TennisGhost has a reputation beyond repute TennisGhost has a reputation beyond repute TennisGhost has a reputation beyond repute TennisGhost has a reputation beyond repute TennisGhost has a reputation beyond repute TennisGhost has a reputation beyond repute TennisGhost has a reputation beyond repute TennisGhost has a reputation beyond repute TennisGhost has a reputation beyond repute TennisGhost has a reputation beyond repute TennisGhost has a reputation beyond repute
Re: When and why did speed become less important?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shap_half View Post
From Hingis and Capriati to Clijsters and Venus
Quote:
Originally Posted by pov View Post
The idea that any of those players is more athletic than Azarenka, Radwanska, Kerber, Wozniacki, etc is ludicrous.
What?
Venus is more athletic than anyone and everyone. Kim too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcana View Post
Was Henin a better ATHLETE than Radwanska?
Of course she was. It's not even close.
TennisGhost is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2014, 08:22 AM   #86
bandabou
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 39,185
bandabou has a reputation beyond repute bandabou has a reputation beyond repute bandabou has a reputation beyond repute bandabou has a reputation beyond repute bandabou has a reputation beyond repute bandabou has a reputation beyond repute bandabou has a reputation beyond repute bandabou has a reputation beyond repute bandabou has a reputation beyond repute bandabou has a reputation beyond repute bandabou has a reputation beyond repute
Re: When and why did speed become less important?

Another thing that got lost: the serve. back then you had Davenport, Serena, Vee, Pierce, Mauresmo, all whom could be called great servers.

Nowadays: it's a battle of who can break more often.
bandabou is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2014, 10:09 AM   #87
country flag jj74
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 19,838
jj74 has a reputation beyond repute jj74 has a reputation beyond repute jj74 has a reputation beyond repute jj74 has a reputation beyond repute jj74 has a reputation beyond repute jj74 has a reputation beyond repute jj74 has a reputation beyond repute jj74 has a reputation beyond repute jj74 has a reputation beyond repute jj74 has a reputation beyond repute jj74 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: When and why did speed become less important?

Speed is still very important, the problem is that most players adopted the hit the ball as hard as you can as model of play and don't work other aspects.

The fact that a player with such weak weapons as Errani is able to get far in the tournaments and be high in the rankings is clear demostration that with fighting spirit and fast legs you can get very far even if you are overpowered by most or your rivals.

A fast player with good offensive weapons will rise to the top 10 without any problem (as long as she is not a mental case)
jj74 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2014, 01:14 PM   #88
country flag shap_half
Senior Member
 
shap_half's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 12,443
shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute
Re: When and why did speed become less important?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcana View Post

Let's call Davenport vs Sharapova a wash.
On sheer speed of foot, I'd take Wozniacki over everybody else from that era. No power, but wheels, wheels, wheels.
Peak Azarenka vs Peak Capriati would be a very even match.

Was Henin a better ATHLETE than Radwanska? Not to my eye. She was a much better PLAYER, mentally and physically, but not a better athlete. maybe the better comparison, athletically, is Sara Errani.

Mauresmo vs Stosur?

The real outlier is Clijsters. A big strong fast ..... retriever!?!?!?
Sharapova is scrappier than Davenport, but I'm not sure she's that much faster, but given that Sharapova is actually wiling to tough it out by running, which Davenport barely did even during her slam-winning days, I'm willing to say that Sharapova is faster.

Azarenka and Capriati? Maybe I'm not seeing what everyone else is seeing, but I don't think Azarenka is all that fast. I saw in the YEC in 2011 that she has become better defensively, but I would never say that her game is built around her ability to track down balls; whereas you can definitely say that a part of Capriati's strengths is that she is fast and has a defense that contributed a lot to her success.

How is Radwanska a better athlete than Henin?

I don't agree with the Wozniacki comment. She's fast for sure, but I think Clijsters in 2002/2003 would definitely beat her on a sprint. Though I suppose because her body type is different from Kim's, maybe Caroline is faster.
shap_half is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2014, 01:43 PM   #89
Volcana
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 22,641
Volcana has a reputation beyond repute Volcana has a reputation beyond repute Volcana has a reputation beyond repute Volcana has a reputation beyond repute Volcana has a reputation beyond repute Volcana has a reputation beyond repute Volcana has a reputation beyond repute Volcana has a reputation beyond repute Volcana has a reputation beyond repute Volcana has a reputation beyond repute Volcana has a reputation beyond repute
Re: When and why did speed become less important?

Quote:
Originally Posted by faboozadoo15 View Post
You don't think Henin was more athletic than Radwanska? She was faster, stronger, hit harder, used heavy spin, had better coordination.....
I do NOT think Henin was more athletic than Radwanska.

I don't think Henin was faster, or stronger, or had better coordination.

Henin hit harder, more accurately, used spin better, manipualted her opponents better, set up points better, but those are all playing tennis. They aren't athleticism.

Radwanska is a GREAT athlete. But she chooses to use that athleticism in a way that I don't think will be successful against any big hitter who moves well, and can keep their errors down. Granted, there aren't many of those. Which is why she's a perennial top five player who doesn't make slam finals, much less win them. Her choices are holding her back, not her body.
__________________
Proud to be an American
Not blind. Not uninformed. We are party to atrocities. But the response of the world after 9/11 is worth noting. Even our most dire enemies offered aid. We should all be so lucky.
Volcana is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2014, 02:36 PM   #90
country flag AcesHigh
Senior Member
 
AcesHigh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 10,059
AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute
Re: When and why did speed become less important?

at Radwanska a great athlete and a better athlete than Henin. Hilarious.
__________________
I always wanted to be somebody. If I made it, it's half because I was game enough to take a lot of punishment along the way and half because there were a lot of people who cared enough to help me.
-Althea Gibson


Quote:
Originally Posted by darrinbaker00 View Post
When will you learn that "pushers" never make it past the club level, let alone #1 on the WTA computer? Will it be too late?
AcesHigh is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios