When and why did speed become less important? - Page 3 - TennisForum.com
TennisForum.com   Wagerline.com MensTennisForums.com TennisUniverse.com
TennisForum.com is the premier Women's Tennis forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.Please Register - It's Free!
Reply

Old Jan 16th, 2013, 03:59 PM   #31
country flag pov
Senior Member
 
pov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 13,994
pov has a reputation beyond repute pov has a reputation beyond repute pov has a reputation beyond repute pov has a reputation beyond repute pov has a reputation beyond repute pov has a reputation beyond repute pov has a reputation beyond repute pov has a reputation beyond repute pov has a reputation beyond repute pov has a reputation beyond repute pov has a reputation beyond repute
Re: When and why did speed become less important?

In thinking more about this my take is . .no. The OP is incorrect. Players today are on average faster than they used to be.
__________________
“Nonviolence means avoiding not only physical violence but also internal violence of spirit. You not only refuse to shoot a man, but you refuse to hate him.” – MLK
pov is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old Jan 16th, 2013, 04:00 PM   #32
country flag shap_half
Senior Member
 
shap_half's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 12,513
shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute
Re: When and why did speed become less important?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake Ramoray View Post
Like the bang-maniac just said, nowadays the game played in a different style. And it actually started from the last generation. You can see how Hingis have ruled the tour during 1997-1999, then couldn't win slams any more. She's like the transitional figure of the tour. And Serena, Venus, Lindsay and Justine eventually took over control represent the transition's done. And even if you say Venus and Justine are speedy, the power is just as important, if not more important, in their game-play.
I definitely don't think power was more important to Justine or even someone like Cijsters or Kuznetsova. Power can only get you so far. Even when you consider Serena, whose game is super powerful. She can't utilize her power unless she can get to the ball and hit from a good position. Everyone talks about how dangerous players like Serena and Capriati were when they're on the run. You can really only generate maximum power if you're in position to properly strike a ball.

And also, I think what's missing now is the balance between offense and defense, which the aforementioned players were great at. In the post-Williams generation, Jankovic is probably the only top player who really has both and to a lesser extent Sharapova. (Note: I don't think Jankovic is better than Sharapova. I just think that Jankovic's game is more balanced between offense and defense.)
shap_half is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 16th, 2013, 04:00 PM   #33
country flag pov
Senior Member
 
pov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 13,994
pov has a reputation beyond repute pov has a reputation beyond repute pov has a reputation beyond repute pov has a reputation beyond repute pov has a reputation beyond repute pov has a reputation beyond repute pov has a reputation beyond repute pov has a reputation beyond repute pov has a reputation beyond repute pov has a reputation beyond repute pov has a reputation beyond repute
Re: When and why did speed become less important?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiden View Post
Not sure what you're talking about but Azza is fast - very fast
__________________
“Nonviolence means avoiding not only physical violence but also internal violence of spirit. You not only refuse to shoot a man, but you refuse to hate him.” – MLK
pov is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 16th, 2013, 04:03 PM   #34
country flag Boxuan
Senior Member
 
Boxuan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 950
Boxuan has much to be proud of Boxuan has much to be proud of Boxuan has much to be proud of Boxuan has much to be proud of Boxuan has much to be proud of Boxuan has much to be proud of Boxuan has much to be proud of Boxuan has much to be proud of Boxuan has much to be proud of Boxuan has much to be proud of Boxuan has much to be proud of
Re: When and why did speed become less important?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olórin View Post
Well there's the top 3 and the crazy BBBs GS Champions Kvitova and Li Na who are the modern slam pedigree.

Of the top 3 Serena is fast and pounds on the other two regularly. She also has lopsided H2Hs with Kvitova and Li. She was never able to beat Venus, Henin or Capriati with such casual regularity. So I think speed still is important. It's just that we've always taken it for a given in Serena - but in Serena we see how important speed is to stay at a competitive top 3 level across all surfaces.
Li Na is a different story compared to any of above mentioned. She didn't have a choice. She had no way to learn more varieties because the tennis teaching is very limited in 80s-90s' China. And also she doesn't have that many oppotunities to play matches with peers. The only thing she can do is to work on her strength and basic ground stroking again and again. That's why she becomes such a late-boomer and a ball-basher. As for Zheng Jie from the same era and background, she doesn't have much varieties either. Today when Stosur started to use her backhand to slice, Zheng couldn't even slice back because of insufficient early training. But the differnce between Li and Zheng is, Zheng has more double experiences, which could help with her variety, and she is also the mentally stronger one.
__________________

·┏┻━┓┏━━━┓┏━━━┓┏━━━┓┏━━━┓┏━━━┓
┏┛李娜┣┫·科娃┣┫·郑洁┣┫·伊万┣┫·彭帅┣┫·杨科┃
┗◎━◎┛┗◎━◎┛┗◎━◎┛┗◎━◎┛┗◎━◎┛┗◎━◎┛
Boxuan is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 16th, 2013, 04:05 PM   #35
country flag theFutureisNow
Senior Member
 
theFutureisNow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,019
theFutureisNow is a splendid one to behold theFutureisNow is a splendid one to behold theFutureisNow is a splendid one to behold theFutureisNow is a splendid one to behold theFutureisNow is a splendid one to behold theFutureisNow is a splendid one to behold theFutureisNow is a splendid one to behold theFutureisNow is a splendid one to behold theFutureisNow is a splendid one to behold theFutureisNow is a splendid one to behold theFutureisNow is a splendid one to behold
Re: When and why did speed become less important?

I don't think today's players are any slower or less athletic. If anything they work even harder than players in the past.

The difference is that you can hit the ball harder and more accurately with today's rackets. So whoever hits the hardest will be disproportionately favored over other players more than they might have been in the past.
__________________
}{KVITOVA}{GOERGES}{SHARAPOVA}{ STOSUR}{LISICKI }{
theFutureisNow is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 16th, 2013, 04:07 PM   #36
country flag shap_half
Senior Member
 
shap_half's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 12,513
shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute shap_half has a reputation beyond repute
Re: When and why did speed become less important?

It wasn't that long ago when Henin, Dementieva, Clijsters, Myskina, Mauresmo, etc. were playing and winning. Dementieva, Clijsters, Henin were not hitting powder puffs.
shap_half is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 16th, 2013, 04:11 PM   #37
country flag JarkaFish
Multiform
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,487
JarkaFish has a brilliant future JarkaFish has a brilliant future JarkaFish has a brilliant future JarkaFish has a brilliant future JarkaFish has a brilliant future JarkaFish has a brilliant future JarkaFish has a brilliant future JarkaFish has a brilliant future JarkaFish has a brilliant future JarkaFish has a brilliant future JarkaFish has a brilliant future
Re: When and why did speed become less important?

There's no rhyme or reason to these things really.
JarkaFish is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 16th, 2013, 04:12 PM   #38
country flag pov
Senior Member
 
pov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 13,994
pov has a reputation beyond repute pov has a reputation beyond repute pov has a reputation beyond repute pov has a reputation beyond repute pov has a reputation beyond repute pov has a reputation beyond repute pov has a reputation beyond repute pov has a reputation beyond repute pov has a reputation beyond repute pov has a reputation beyond repute pov has a reputation beyond repute
Re: When and why did speed become less important?

Here's a thread from 2002 about the fastest movers.

http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=21038
__________________
“Nonviolence means avoiding not only physical violence but also internal violence of spirit. You not only refuse to shoot a man, but you refuse to hate him.” – MLK
pov is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 16th, 2013, 04:14 PM   #39
country flag Crater718
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,244
Crater718 is a splendid one to behold Crater718 is a splendid one to behold Crater718 is a splendid one to behold Crater718 is a splendid one to behold Crater718 is a splendid one to behold Crater718 is a splendid one to behold Crater718 is a splendid one to behold Crater718 is a splendid one to behold Crater718 is a splendid one to behold Crater718 is a splendid one to behold Crater718 is a splendid one to behold
Re: When and why did speed become less important?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake Ramoray View Post
Then we'll have to wait for the first cyborg player showing up in the tour
So I guess it's too much to ask for .

I think a 6 4" female version of Monfils would be exciting for the tour
__________________
I'm just too lazy to go to the US Open.
Crater718 is online now View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 16th, 2013, 04:16 PM   #40
country flag Boxuan
Senior Member
 
Boxuan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 950
Boxuan has much to be proud of Boxuan has much to be proud of Boxuan has much to be proud of Boxuan has much to be proud of Boxuan has much to be proud of Boxuan has much to be proud of Boxuan has much to be proud of Boxuan has much to be proud of Boxuan has much to be proud of Boxuan has much to be proud of Boxuan has much to be proud of
Re: When and why did speed become less important?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shap_half View Post
I definitely don't think power was more important to Justine or even someone like Cijsters or Kuznetsova. Power can only get you so far. Even when you consider Serena, whose game is super powerful. She can't utilize her power unless she can get to the ball and hit from a good position. Everyone talks about how dangerous players like Serena and Capriati were when they're on the run. You can really only generate maximum power if you're in position to properly strike a ball.

And also, I think what's missing now is the balance between offense and defense, which the aforementioned players were great at. In the post-Williams generation, Jankovic is probably the only top player who really has both and to a lesser extent Sharapova. (Note: I don't think Jankovic is better than Sharapova. I just think that Jankovic's game is more balanced between offense and defense.)
If you think Clijsters or Kuznetsova is fast, then you can't say Azarenka is slow. Have you watched the match between Azarenka and Clijsters in last year's AO? Vika's speed is definitely not slower than Kim's. Sometimes in some matches I can even classify her into the category of a pusher, she just gives people the impression of a ball-basher because of her extra shrieking. If you want balance between offence and defence, I think she could be a good example.

Then Aga is surely a fast runner with a steady 4th ranking and a balance (if not more defensive than offensive). So we have 2 of the top 4, I don't think there's a big problem. No.5 Kerber is also a speedy defender, isn't she?
__________________

·┏┻━┓┏━━━┓┏━━━┓┏━━━┓┏━━━┓┏━━━┓
┏┛李娜┣┫·科娃┣┫·郑洁┣┫·伊万┣┫·彭帅┣┫·杨科┃
┗◎━◎┛┗◎━◎┛┗◎━◎┛┗◎━◎┛┗◎━◎┛┗◎━◎┛
Boxuan is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 16th, 2013, 04:21 PM   #41
country flag madmax
Senior Member
 
madmax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 10,459
madmax has a reputation beyond repute madmax has a reputation beyond repute madmax has a reputation beyond repute madmax has a reputation beyond repute madmax has a reputation beyond repute madmax has a reputation beyond repute madmax has a reputation beyond repute madmax has a reputation beyond repute madmax has a reputation beyond repute madmax has a reputation beyond repute madmax has a reputation beyond repute
Re: When and why did speed become less important?

If OP truly believes that today's players are less athletic for some obscure reason, then his tennis knowledge should be questioned OR he is just one of those old nostalgia tards, who always refuses to give credit to younger generations...The game is much more physical nowadays than even 10 years ago - FACT. Players hit harder than ever and are better conditioned on average than those 10 years ago - another FACT. There are only 2 players, who don't rely on their foot speed to win matches in the TOP 10 - them being Sharapova and Kvitova, two of the hardest hitters the game has ever seen. All of the others more or less rely on their movement to play elite level of tennis and be successful while doing it...
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chakbelle View Post
Those DFs are like a tap but the washer is broken and Maksim doesnt have a wrench.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp!ffy View Post
Sharapova is so popular her owns fans have haters.
madmax is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 16th, 2013, 04:43 PM   #42
country flag AcesHigh
Senior Member
 
AcesHigh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 10,115
AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute AcesHigh has a reputation beyond repute
Re: When and why did speed become less important?

For those denying that today's girls are not as athletic, just look at the big 4 in 2002-2003.
No one even comes close to them.

Instead, a 30+yo is possibly the best athlete on tour.
__________________
I always wanted to be somebody. If I made it, it's half because I was game enough to take a lot of punishment along the way and half because there were a lot of people who cared enough to help me.
-Althea Gibson


Quote:
Originally Posted by darrinbaker00 View Post
When will you learn that "pushers" never make it past the club level, let alone #1 on the WTA computer? Will it be too late?
AcesHigh is online now View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 16th, 2013, 04:45 PM   #43
Volcana
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 22,813
Volcana has a reputation beyond repute Volcana has a reputation beyond repute Volcana has a reputation beyond repute Volcana has a reputation beyond repute Volcana has a reputation beyond repute Volcana has a reputation beyond repute Volcana has a reputation beyond repute Volcana has a reputation beyond repute Volcana has a reputation beyond repute Volcana has a reputation beyond repute Volcana has a reputation beyond repute
Re: When and why did speed become less important?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pov View Post
In thinking more about this my take is . .no. The OP is incorrect. Players today are on average faster than they used to be.
upon reflection, I concur. The AVERAGE player today is a much better athlete, faster and stronger. However, perhaps a refinement of the question is in order.

Why is, or, IS, speed less important to the success of the TOP players today, compared to ten-twleve years ago? I think 97-03 was the cresting of a wave of very fast players. Before them, the percentage of superfast players wasn't as high, and afterward, not so much either. I think, speed-wise, today's top ten would compare favorably to 1991-1996.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcesHigh View Post
For those denying that today's girls are not as athletic, just look at the big 4 in 2002-2003.
No one even comes close to them.
I suggest you're not looking far enough back in history, or in enough depth. Any one year give a false picture. The top five at the of 2002 was the fastest in WTA history, hands down.

Serena, Venus, Capriati, Clijsters, Henin

That's a track team.

Before we go on, however, who exactly do you mean 'the big 4 in 2002-2003'?

YE02 - Serena, Venus, Capriati, Clijsters
YE03 - Henin*, Clijsters, Serena, Mauresmo

(Ranking data from http://tennis.quickfound.net/history...9-present.html)

As for 'no one coming close', Venus and Serena are still on the tour, though ten years (of injuries) older, but they can both summon up 'close', now and then. So let's put them aside.

Let's call Davenport vs Sharapova a wash.
On sheer speed of foot, I'd take Wozniacki over everybody else from that era. No power, but wheels, wheels, wheels.
Peak Azarenka vs Peak Capriati would be a very even match.

Was Henin a better ATHLETE than Radwanska? Not to my eye. She was a much better PLAYER, mentally and physically, but not a better athlete. maybe the better comparison, athletically, is Sara Errani.

Mauresmo vs Stosur?

The real outlier is Clijsters. A big strong fast ..... retriever!?!?!?
__________________
Proud to be an American
Not blind. Not uninformed. We are party to atrocities. But the response of the world after 9/11 is worth noting. Even our most dire enemies offered aid. We should all be so lucky.

Last edited by Volcana : Jan 16th, 2013 at 05:28 PM.
Volcana is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 16th, 2013, 04:49 PM   #44
country flag KeysisGOAT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,011
KeysisGOAT has a brilliant future KeysisGOAT has a brilliant future KeysisGOAT has a brilliant future KeysisGOAT has a brilliant future KeysisGOAT has a brilliant future KeysisGOAT has a brilliant future KeysisGOAT has a brilliant future KeysisGOAT has a brilliant future KeysisGOAT has a brilliant future KeysisGOAT has a brilliant future KeysisGOAT has a brilliant future
Re: When and why did speed become less important?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcesHigh View Post
For those denying that today's girls are not as athletic, just look at the big 4 in 2002-2003.
No one even comes close to them.

Instead, a 30+yo is possibly the best athlete on tour.
Steve Redgrave won 5 gold medals with Ulcerative Collitis, his last was at the age of 38 and the additional issue of type I diabetes. Serena Williams being a better player/athlete at 30+ years old than people a decade younger is irrelevant. She is just that fucking good.
KeysisGOAT is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 16th, 2013, 04:50 PM   #45
country flag NashaMasha
Senior Member
 
NashaMasha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 9,037
NashaMasha has a reputation beyond repute NashaMasha has a reputation beyond repute NashaMasha has a reputation beyond repute NashaMasha has a reputation beyond repute NashaMasha has a reputation beyond repute NashaMasha has a reputation beyond repute NashaMasha has a reputation beyond repute NashaMasha has a reputation beyond repute NashaMasha has a reputation beyond repute NashaMasha has a reputation beyond repute NashaMasha has a reputation beyond repute
Re: When and why did speed become less important?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kotre View Post
Is tennis' anti-doping programme still as much of a joke as cycling's was before they cracked down on it?

No , in cycling there was anti-doping programme, not successful though..... In tennis there are almost no anti-doping .... 10 blood tests out-of-competition per year is no more than a joke

Quote:
Have you watched the match between Azarenka and Clijsters in last year's AO?
yes Azarenka was as fast as almost retired, full of injuries mother Kim

PS..... are we just forgetting how quickly Hingis became irrelevant when WTA turned into power game domination?
__________________
Maria Sharapova
Career Grand Slam Winner
Wimbledon 2004 ~ US Open 2006 ~ Australian Open 2008 ~ French Open 2012 and 2014

WTA Championships 2004
London Olympics silver medallist

32 WTA titles , including 12 Tier I titles
21 weeks #1 player
NashaMasha is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios