[Cajka]

Originally Posted by moby

Which dominates the Schnyder QF, Jankovic SF, Safina F lineup.


As you said Safina was on the rise. She was still outside the top 10 at this point and was new to that stage of GS-play. Jankovic was Ivanovic's bitch.

The fact is that at the start of Roland Garros 2008, none of the 7 players Ivanovic beat had ever reached a Grand Slam final, much less won one. Such a line-up has never happened before or since in Open Era Grand Slam history, AFAIK. (except for those rando late 70s RGs and AOs)

I thought it was more about who's the tougher opponent atm than about the name of your opponents and their previous slam records. For example, Ana defeated 2 slam winners in RG 2007, but in RG 2008 JJ put up a much better fight against her than those two. It's not only about the name, the form is more relevant. I think that we can all agree that Kerber is a tougher draw these days than Ivanovic for example, although Kerber has never won a slam, reached multiple slam finals, #1 spot etc. etc.

[dsanders06]

Originally Posted by L'Enfant Sauvage

This. Regardless of whether Errani was in the top 10 or not she has zero weapons to challenge a top level aggressive player on any surface. She would be considered a cakewalk even if she was ranked #1. OTOH Kvitova at Wimbledon was ranked low, but it's quite clear that even to this day she has few performances as impressive as her run there where she punchT #1 Wozniacki and Princess Vika out in about an hour each, and as Serena detractors love to go on about "outplayed Serena off the ground" . Poova in one of her best performances against Serena post-05, and Li Na who is always trouble for Serena are a solid supporting cast, and make her Wimbledon run a fairly solid one. Not great, but not a cakewalk in spite of a worthless finals opponent.

Double standards again You claim beating a player with a scrub game is never an achievement whatever their ranking, yet then immediately tout beating Wozniacki as some GOATly achievement. And anyway, if you want to play this game, then Errani put together a MUCH more impressive string of scalps at RG 2012 than Kvitova did at Wimbledon 2010.

[L'Enfant Sauvage]

Originally Posted by Fighterpova

It's 4-1, not 4-0 or 3-0 in 2012.

Vika leads Martha 4-0 on outdoor hard in 2012:
AO F: Aza def. Pova 6-3 6-0
IW F: Aza def. Pova 6-2 6-3
USO SF: Aza def. Pova 3-6 6-2 6-4
Beijing F: Aza def. Pova 6-3 6-1

Pova's 2 wins were on Indoor Clay & Indoor Hard respectively.

[dsanders06]

Also, why has the OP been banned?

[doomsday]

Originally Posted by Fighterpova

It's 4-1, not 4-0 or 3-0 in 2012.

Yeah my bad. Even though I don't really know what Vika H2H has to do with the main point of the thread.

[+Y-T]

vozas.

[L'Enfant Sauvage]

Originally Posted by dsanders06

Double standards again You claim beating a player with a scrub game is never an achievement whatever their ranking, yet then immediately tout beating Wozniacki as some GOATly achievement. And anyway, if you want to play this game, then Errani put together a MUCH more impressive string of scalps at RG 2012 than Kvitova did at Wimbledon 2010.

Wozniacki circa 2010-2011 DID have the capability of beating elite aggressive players. Her excellent consistency/good footspeed/excellent anticipation was the was the bane of many aggressive players during this period including Sharapova herself a couple of times. And even NOW, neither Sharapova or even Serena have been able to comprehensively crush Mugniacki the way Petra did(Serena's USO SF where she punched Woz out in straights was still about an hour and a half IIRC, which is nothing compared to Kvitova's 45 minute winner exhibition.) Unlike Wozniacki, Errani has NOTHING to challenge aggressive players with. She lacks firepower, and her slight frame means she can't defend as frustratingly well either, resulting in a total punchbag for any elite attacker.

The only in-form player Errani beat was Stosur, maybe Kerber. The former mentally crumbled being the favorite to win(and I didn't watch Errani-Kerber so I'll give her the benefit of the doubt) but that still doesn't quite top bageling Wozniacki and Azarenka, not to mention WINNING the title the following year, and only losing to Serena the year after that But I guess you can screencap this post for when Sara Errani wins the 2013 French Open

[dsanders06]

Originally Posted by L'Enfant Sauvage

Wozniacki circa 2010-2011 DID have the capability of beating elite aggressive players. Her excellent consistency/good footspeed/excellent anticipation was the was the bane of many aggressive players during this period including Sharapova herself a couple of times. And even NOW, neither Sharapova or even Serena have been able to comprehensively crush Mugniacki the way Petra did(Serena's USO SF where she punched Woz out in straights was still about an hour and a half IIRC, which is nothing compared to Kvitova's 45 minute winner exhibition.) Unlike Wozniacki, Errani has NOTHING to challenge aggressive players with. She lacks firepower, and her slight frame means she can't defend as frustratingly well either, resulting in a total punchbag for any elite attacker.

The only in-form player Errani beat was Stosur, maybe Kerber. The former mentally crumbled being the favorite to win(and I didn't watch Errani-Kerber so I'll give her the benefit of the doubt) but that still doesn't quite top bageling Wozniacki and Azarenka, not to mention WINNING the title the following year, and only losing to Serena the year after that But I guess you can screencap this post for when Sara Errani wins the 2013 French Open

You can't seriously think beating Wozniacki and Azarenka (the latter being in a horrible slump at the time, to boot) ON GRASS, neither of them having a Wimbledon final between them, is better than beating former RG champions Ivanovic and Kuznetsova, elite claycourter Stosur and an in-form top 10 player in Kerber. I've never known YOU to peddle something quite so outrageous before

[lupojohn]

If Serena's on her game, as she was at the Olympics especially, any draw would be a cakewalk.

[doomsday]

Originally Posted by dsanders06

You can't seriously think beating Wozniacki and Azarenka (the latter being in a horrible slump at the time, to boot) ON GRASS, neither of them having a Wimbledon final between them, is better than beating former RG champions Ivanovic and Kuznetsova, elite claycourter Stosur and an in-form top 10 player in Kerber. I've never known YOU to peddle something quite so outrageous before

I agree, 2 wins over former champ in a row I know that both are mentally dead but still, it really was impressive from Errani and then came the win over Stosur (another huge favorite for the title)
She really had an excellent claycourt season with only 1 loss to Maria(clay queen in 2012) and 1 to Stosur

[Xepher]

Originally Posted by dsanders06

Also, why has the OP been banned?

Possibly a banned poster. Not that difficult to tell. I think.

[madmax]

her last two titles were both won thanks to huge chokes from opponents as well - Zheng fogetting how to play when leading 4-3 40-0 in the third set at Wimby and then of course Vuvurenka folding like a cheap tent in the US Open final too. There is no other player in history who benefited from choking opposition more. And then her tards have a nerve to take shots at Maria and her slam wins? Please...

[J4m3ka]

Originally Posted by dsanders06

You can't seriously think beating Wozniacki and Azarenka (the latter being in a horrible slump at the time, to boot) ON GRASS, neither of them having a Wimbledon final between them, is better than beating former RG champions Ivanovic and Kuznetsova, elite claycourter Stosur and an in-form top 10 player in Kerber. I've never known YOU to peddle something quite so outrageous before

It was the nature of the wins, Kvitova killed Wozniacki and Azarenka (minus the brain fart) and would've done the same to 99% of the tour on those days. I do wonder how Azarenka was in a slump though? She had beaten Hantuchova, Petrova 6-2 6-2 and straight setted Paszek with a breadstick earlier in the event, which are quite good scalps for her on grass Ivanovic and Kuznetsova were REALLY slumping, and they lost those matches - rather than Errani doing anything spectacular to win.

[L'Enfant Sauvage]

Originally Posted by dsanders06

You can't seriously think beating Wozniacki and Azarenka (the latter being in a horrible slump at the time, to boot) ON GRASS, neither of them having a Wimbledon final between them, is better than beating former RG champions Ivanovic and Kuznetsova, elite claycourter Stosur and an in-form top 10 player in Kerber. I've never known YOU to peddle something quite so outrageous before

... Ivanovic is complete garbage post-08(even now where she's pushing top ten, she's beatable by any half decent player. I mean even Sjogrenus is still beating her ) I omitted slump Kuznetsova in my discussion because I literally didn't think anyone, even YOU would consider her a notable scalp. I mean, six months later, she's playing qualies to get into premier events This is why I only mentioned Stosur and Kerber. If you think beating those players in three, and in moderate straights is a better accomplishment than 5&0 / 2&0 killings of Vika and Caro I can respect your opinion, but don't bring garbage like Slumpvanovic and Slumpnetsova in the discussion. Their name and achievements 3-4 years ago is the only thing remotely relevant about them, which isn't to say Sveta can't regain her form, but she clearly hasn't had it for the past 52 weeks.

And bringing up the lack of Wimbledon finals in Vika's case is a bit disingenuous(big shocker there) as every year since 2009 she's been in the champion's half(2009 lost to eventual champ Serena in QF, 2010 lost to Petra who would lose to eventual champ Serena in semis, 2011 lost to eventual champ Petra, 2012 lost to eventual champ Serena.) She's clearly one of the best grasscourters in the field, her only disadvantage is having two players who are clearly a notch above and unfortunate draws. If only the grass field were as weak as the clay field, she'd probably have won it by now

[TheDream]

Originally Posted by madmax

her last two titles were both won thanks to huge chokes from opponents as well - Zheng fogetting how to play when leading 4-3 40-0 in the third set at Wimby and then of course Vuvurenka folding like a cheap tent in the US Open final too. There is no other player in history who benefited from choking opposition more. And then her tards have a nerve to take shots at Maria and her slam wins? Please...

oh please, serena won over half her slams in one of the most competitive eras ever. Maria got tougher draws at US Open and Wimbledon and we saw what happened there.

And, get over this choking nonsense, because if we live in a world where comebacks don't happen, Sharapova would've lost to Petrova in new york and to kvitova in Australia with all the break points she saved off of kvitova errors. Then, if she lost, she wouldn't be seeded where she was in Australia, Serena doesn't draw Razzano, and the entire tournament is changed. Maria needs comfortable draws now.