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Old Jan 9th, 2013, 10:05 PM   #31
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Re: Europe rocked by racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwilliams View Post
True, they do but if his intentions were what some have suggested, he didn't really succeed and there's no reason why this thread still can't be (turned into) a positive thing because the story itself is quite positive.

I think we should focus on that and disregard the OP's possibly dubious intentions. That'd serve him right, right!?
i don't know tbh. most europeans here dismissed him right away but i don't think europeans were the target audience.
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Old Jan 9th, 2013, 10:25 PM   #32
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Re: Europe rocked by racism

Wow! Somemone still believes Guardian. Wow!
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Old Jan 9th, 2013, 10:25 PM   #33
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Re: Europe rocked by racism

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Originally Posted by azdaja View Post
i disagree with chris about racism being a problem at the same level in football as in the wider society. it's not. football crowds definitely don't reflect the general society accurately. and they are infiltrated by very idiotic groups. and they don't target just black people. which is the point some people are missing.
as far as peoples' lives go, then racism is a BIGGER problem in society in general than within football. black players are revered the world over (and have been for decades), pele is held up as arguably the greatest footballer ever, whereas in "society" there are so-called hate crimes, institutional racism within many police forces and judicial systems and so on.

it depends what football match you go to whether the fans reflect society accurately. generally they don't mirror society, but they can still be said to be fairly representative imo.
anyway, what annoyed me was that racism is being argued to be football's problem, rather than society's. take a look at the neo-fascist parties that are voted for in italy. there have been problems with chanting and abuse in the former yugoslavia and in russia. again, look at the types of political parties who get a fair share of the vote there. many nationalists, and many views which are far from being all-inclusive and progressive. all i'm saying is that curing football's problems won't be possible until we cure society's problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mykarma View Post
WOW
what is "wow" about a statement like that? take a sample of millions and some of those people will be nazis, some will have been in trouble with the law, some will be morons. it is a fact of life.
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Old Jan 9th, 2013, 10:34 PM   #34
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Re: Europe rocked by racism

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Originally Posted by Chris 84 View Post
take a sample of millions and some of those people will be nazis, some will have been in trouble with the law, some will be morons. it is a fact of life.
I´m not black. Period. Auto racist?
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Old Jan 9th, 2013, 10:38 PM   #35
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Re: Europe rocked by racism

To Azdaja (I'm too lazy to quote you!)

Yeah, and that's kinda tricky then but people will always see what they want to see. I don't think he's been stirring stuff in this thread. He's just putting it out there (with a thread title either designed to catch people attention or influence their opinion before they read the story, idk) and people will run with it in whichever direction they choose.

Some have argued about the level of racism present in football. Some have questioned how classy a sport it is and what kind of crowd/fanbase it attracts. Others, like myself, have seen this as a very positive step forward. These opinions would've been put forward anyway.

The OP may be trying to sway perceptions of Europe but I think you've done enough by drawing people's attention to that possibility, however likely it is (I've never noticed any anti-European bias on his part before - don't know if this is a new thing or not) is good enough. That perspective is there for people to consider.
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Old Jan 9th, 2013, 10:48 PM   #36
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Re: Europe rocked by racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris 84 View Post
as far as peoples' lives go, then racism is a BIGGER problem in society in general than within football. black players are revered the world over (and have been for decades), pele is held up as arguably the greatest footballer ever, whereas in "society" there are so-called hate crimes, institutional racism within many police forces and judicial systems and so on.

it depends what football match you go to whether the fans reflect society accurately. generally they don't mirror society, but they can still be said to be fairly representative imo.
anyway, what annoyed me was that racism is being argued to be football's problem, rather than society's. take a look at the neo-fascist parties that are voted for in italy. there have been problems with chanting and abuse in the former yugoslavia and in russia. again, look at the types of political parties who get a fair share of the vote there. many nationalists, and many views which are far from being all-inclusive and progressive. all i'm saying is that curing football's problems won't be possible until we cure society's problems.



what is "wow" about a statement like that? take a sample of millions and some of those people will be nazis, some will have been in trouble with the law, some will be morons. it is a fact of life.
The WOW is that their are racist everywhere so we should just accept it and move on because it's a fact of life. Yeah ok, if you say so.
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Old Jan 9th, 2013, 11:39 PM   #37
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Re: Europe rocked by racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris 84 View Post
it depends what football match you go to whether the fans reflect society accurately. generally they don't mirror society, but they can still be said to be fairly representative imo.
Unlike most of other sports, football has a very long hooliganism history. So, no, football fans or don't represent one society. If they did, you'd have hooligans on Wimbledon as well.
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Old Jan 10th, 2013, 02:52 AM   #38
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Re: Europe rocked by racism

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Originally Posted by Cajka View Post
Unlike most of other sports, football has a very long hooliganism history. So, no, football fans or don't represent one society. If they did, you'd have hooligans on Wimbledon as well.
There have been problems related to basketball, hockey and American football, too.

Tennis, being an primarily individual sport, usually has factors such as smaller venues and less of a tribal mentality compared to team sports. That tribalism can create a wonderful and exciting atmosphere, but if it gets out of control it can turn ugly in a hurry.
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Old Jan 10th, 2013, 02:56 AM   #39
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Re: Europe rocked by racism

I hope this course of action becomes the norm in such circumstances.
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Old Jan 10th, 2013, 07:29 AM   #40
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Re: Europe rocked by racism



FIFA punishes Bulgaria, Hungary for racism

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...abuse/1818517/

FIFA fined Bulgaria and Hungary around $40,000 each on Tuesday and ordered them to play a World Cup qualifier in an empty stadium after fans aimed racist and anti-Semitic abuse at opposing teams.

The punishments were announced as players and anti-discrimination groups demand tougher action against incidents at stadiums, including in Italy and Serbia.

FIFA fined Bulgaria 35,000 Swiss francs ($38,000) and Hungary 40,000 Swiss francs ($43,400).
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Old Jan 10th, 2013, 07:31 AM   #41
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Re: Europe rocked by racism



Italian politician quits for participating in racist chants

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...h-8443236.html

A politician from Italy’s Northern League political party has been forced to quit after being accused of chanting racist comments that led AC Milan football players to walk off the pitch last week.

Riccardo Grittini, 21, the councillor for sport in Corbetta, outside Milan, is under investigation by Varese prosecutors following the scenes last Thursday, which saw a friendly match between the Serie A superstars and fourth division side Pro Patria abandoned.
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Old Jan 10th, 2013, 08:07 AM   #42
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Re: Europe rocked by racism

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A politician from Italy’s Northern League political party has been forced to quit after being accused of chanting racist comments that led AC Milan football players to walk off the pitch last week.
big fucking surprise then. *pukes violently*
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Old Jan 10th, 2013, 09:12 AM   #43
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Re: Europe rocked by racism

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Originally Posted by miffedmax View Post
There have been problems related to basketball, hockey and American football, too.

Tennis, being an primarily individual sport, usually has factors such as smaller venues and less of a tribal mentality compared to team sports. That tribalism can create a wonderful and exciting atmosphere, but if it gets out of control it can turn ugly in a hurry.
Of course there's a reason behind, I didn't mean to blame football as a sport. I'm also aware that there's like 50.000 people in the crowd, much more than on a basketball or hockey match, so it increases the chances of incidents. There are millions of reasons.

But I wasn't really talking about the reasons behind. Chris said that it's the society that has a problem actually, not football fans. So, my point was that football hooliganism is something that has its long history and hooliganism in football is worse than in other sports. It doesn't represent one society, but it is a part of society and it is something that one society should be able to deal with, it deserves special attention and you must deal with it separately.

Those hooligans are fanatics. Their issue isn't racism exclusively, it's a hate. Hate for the rival club and its fans. So, they will choose whatever reason to insult you, even attack you physically. Even if you get rid of racism in one society, you won't get rid of football hooliganism. Racist incidents are one of many ways for them to express their hate.

Last edited by Cajka : Jan 10th, 2013 at 12:27 PM. Reason: I couldn't understand my own post.
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Old Jan 10th, 2013, 10:43 AM   #44
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Re: Europe rocked by racism

OP doesn't like Europe because it is a bastion of "socialism" and "multiculturalism".

Actually, the thread title is pretty dishonest. It should be renamed "Football rocked by racism", and good grief, that's news?
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Old Jan 10th, 2013, 10:50 AM   #45
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Re: Europe rocked by racism

Hardcore football fans probably have the lowest IQ out of all people
No surprise here
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