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Old Mar 10th, 2013, 02:06 PM   #961
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by terjw View Post
I took marineblue to be referring to the players who are at the top now and Caro was beating those players when she had that great 12 months mid 2010 to mid 2011. She was beating Vika, Pova, Aga and Petra - top players now. All of them apart from Serena but she never lost to Serena in that period either. They didn't play each other. Now I know the players she was beating have improved - but by the same token Caro is not as good as she was then either.

I thought marineblue was referring to winning against the top players now - not the big four of the last decade who she hardly played at all. I always found that argument that her problem was she couldn't beat the big four of the last decade a bit dishonest. In fact - until you get to a lot of matches such as Kim vs Justine when they were both at their best - I'm not one for making much of their whole career being about one or two H2Hs anyway.

Anyway - although I didn't get that these were the players being compared - let's just look at her matches against the big four during those 12 months:
  1. Serena - played no matches against her in those 12 months. Of course Serena is a much better player than Caro and I don't think Caro would have had much chance. But Serena is Serena - the best by a long way this decade and it's all woulda coulda stuff anyway when they didn't play.
    .
  2. Justine - 1 match she lost in 3 sets. As I said - I don't judge a player based on a single match in 12 months and conclude anything from that.
    .
  3. Venus: This is the most dishonest argument of all when people trying to make a point put forward Venus as an example Caro has never beaten. They last played when Caro was barely a junior ranked what - in the hundreds! And someone makes a point that she's supposed to win then or she's no good. It would have been a huge massive shock when no-one really even knew about Caro much.
    .
  4. Kim: And this is where I think it actually does mean something. It was Caro, Kim and Vera winning everything - mostly Caro and Kim. But Kim won the very biggest tournaments. Caro did play Kim and Kim always beat Caro. I think it was fair to say that Kim was a good yardstick at that time that Caro did need to improve.

You understood what I meant precisely. I also agree with this post entirely.
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Old Mar 10th, 2013, 02:10 PM   #962
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by TennisFan66 View Post
Caro was broken no less than 7 times, right? That should constitute fragile serve
And Caro's next opponent is a player who has choked away some MPs in some of their previous matches,so she'll likely be aggressive on the ROS if she senses weakness from Caro there
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Old Mar 10th, 2013, 02:16 PM   #963
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

I think the only way she can get close to being as good as she used to be is high effort level. From the first point on.
She's going to make errors, weak serves. But she has to fight.
This is certainly a workable draw, but she has to fight to get thru it
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Old Mar 10th, 2013, 02:56 PM   #964
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by DownInAHole View Post
Hmm, I thought the poor result in Kuala Lumpur was just a one-off. Now I'm not so sure. It really appeared that she was making progress at Doha and Dubai.
Yes, and it's really frustraiting! It's like she make one step forward, and then two backwards! I'm really starting to lose believe that she ever get back in Top 5 and win some meaningful tournament again! So far this year isn't any better than last year's!
I'm not even sure about her chances against Vesnina, it's certainly won't be an easy match!
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Old Mar 10th, 2013, 03:06 PM   #965
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Caroline is in poor form Thank God she won

3 sets against Cornet on hard court is really bad. Not promising at all. Caroline seems far away from her best form. Let`s see what she can do against Vesnina in R3. Caroline has to improve.
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Old Mar 10th, 2013, 03:09 PM   #966
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

I wonder how many times Piotler came on court during the match?
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Old Mar 10th, 2013, 03:52 PM   #967
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
I think the only way she can get close to being as good as she used to be is high effort level. From the first point on.
That was my impression of her game in Doha/Dubai. She was very energetic and focused.

At least she got through the match against Cornet. We can hope that an early scare will make her more determined to win.
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Old Mar 10th, 2013, 04:00 PM   #968
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by DownInAHole View Post
That was my impression of her game in Doha/Dubai. She was very energetic and focused.

At least she got through the match against Cornet. We can hope that an early scare will make her more determined to win.
But still that wasn't enough to win a set against either Kvitova or Aga let alone the match.

I'd like to see some outsider come in and assess how Caro's practices are set up. We've heard a number of times that she's doing good stuff in practice but it generally hasn't translated into matches. Perhaps this outsider can offer some tips on how to structure things so that there's more of a carry over between practice and actual matches.
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Old Mar 10th, 2013, 04:03 PM   #969
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by DownInAHole View Post
That was my impression of her game in Doha/Dubai. She was very energetic and focused.

At least she got through the match against Cornet. We can hope that an early scare will make her more determined to win.
yes, people in here seem so easy to go from SHE'S BACKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!! to she's never winning a single match again, just with a bad match happening.

What I saw in Dubai-Doha was very promising and yesterday she won a tought match...in the midst she didn't feel well, so that can still be the cause. We'll see...I still prefer her to win long matches against bad opponents and occasionally raise her game against big names rather than streamrolling scrubs and being streamrolled by top names.
At least for now.
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Old Mar 10th, 2013, 04:32 PM   #970
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

This will tell a lot. I've already seen enough at the majors to know her focus isnt good enough.
Its not only 5 losses in her last 10 slam matches, its starting so slow, which is suicide in a huge match.

She has to focus & compete. Thats all Vika's doing. She watched how Caroline got to #1 and stayed there, and she's doing it.
Meanwhile, Caroline is copying Hantuchova, Ivanovic, and Jankovic, as a former elite player who has no focus or confidence.
She has to rebuild that confidence by beating these players who are noncontenders. If you let Sveta beat you twice in a row, you arent winning anything.
Same with Goerges, who is going for 4 in a row, if they meet in round 4
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Old Mar 10th, 2013, 04:43 PM   #971
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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But still that wasn't enough to win a set against either Kvitova or Aga let alone the match.

I'd like to see some outsider come in and assess how Caro's practices are set up. We've heard a number of times that she's doing good stuff in practice but it generally hasn't translated into matches. Perhaps this outsider can offer some tips on how to structure things so that there's more of a carry over between practice and actual matches.
Sure but considering where she has been the last year and a half I consider losing to top ten players progress. I have significantly lowered my expectations for Caroline. For me if she can make it as far as facing players ranked above her that is as much as I am expecting. My hope is that if she can keep doing that as the season progresses that eventually she will start getting some wins over them and make some semis and finals at bigger tournaments.
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Old Mar 10th, 2013, 04:51 PM   #972
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

In re post #970,as I've said before,a lot depends on HOW the confidence is instilled...sort of like evaluating how strong a house's foundation is.Piotr did all right,but NOT as good as Graf's dad or Richard Williams did.Too much of Caro's confidence was based on Piotr's teaching and not on her own ability.Now that Piotr has run out of answers,it's easy to see how Caro's confidence is shaken.As for those other players above,the roots of their temporary confidence were NEVER that deep so,no huge surprise on their career declines
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Old Mar 10th, 2013, 05:44 PM   #973
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by DownInAHole View Post
Sure but considering where she has been the last year and a half I consider losing to top ten players progress. I have significantly lowered my expectations for Caroline. For me if she can make it as far as facing players ranked above her that is as much as I am expecting. My hope is that if she can keep doing that as the season progresses that eventually she will start getting some wins over them and make some semis and finals at bigger tournaments.
I completely agree with this. Sure it would be nice to have beaten Aga and/or Petra. But as you say - she has slipped a long way and I just don't think it's realistic to expect everything at once.

Quite franky, I'd rather her play at a sustained level better throughout the year based on how she was playing at AO, Doha and Dubai and build on that rather than one flash in the pan big win and then back to early losses in the rest of her tournaments. But now the struggle she had in her match and holding her serve worries me much more than not managing to beat Aga or Petra in Doha / Dubai.
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Old Mar 10th, 2013, 05:50 PM   #974
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
This will tell a lot. I've already seen enough at the majors to know her focus isnt good enough.
Its not only 5 losses in her last 10 slam matches, its starting so slow, which is suicide in a huge match.

She has to focus & compete. Thats all Vika's doing. She watched how Caroline got to #1 and stayed there, and she's doing it.
Meanwhile, Caroline is copying Hantuchova, Ivanovic, and Jankovic, as a former elite player who has no focus or confidence.
She has to rebuild that confidence by beating these players who are noncontenders. If you let Sveta beat you twice in a row, you arent winning anything.
Same with Goerges, who is going for 4 in a row, if they meet in round 4
100% agree. There is no focus for tennis. And without that you will be a player between 8 - 20.
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Old Mar 10th, 2013, 06:01 PM   #975
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

I wouldn't say NO focus--or else she'd be ranked a lot lower than 8-20,but the focus might not be adequate for the level of play she must maintain.E.g.,Serena--and a couple other power players--can often sleepwalk thru matches,hang around reasonably close and then put together a couple awesome service games that demoralize most of her opponents....And Caro doesn't have that luxury
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