Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6 - Page 62 - TennisForum.com
TennisForum.com   Wagerline.com MensTennisForums.com TennisUniverse.com
TennisForum.com is the premier Women's Tennis forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.Please Register - It's Free!
Closed Thread

Old Mar 5th, 2013, 12:00 PM   #916
country flag Saraya!
Senior Member
 
Saraya!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 22,534
Saraya! has a reputation beyond repute Saraya! has a reputation beyond repute Saraya! has a reputation beyond repute Saraya! has a reputation beyond repute Saraya! has a reputation beyond repute Saraya! has a reputation beyond repute Saraya! has a reputation beyond repute Saraya! has a reputation beyond repute Saraya! has a reputation beyond repute Saraya! has a reputation beyond repute Saraya! has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozza View Post
Caro really has to make at least QF here, if she doesn't she has big problems in the context of her season. Things are unlikely to get any easier in Miami. Istanbul will again look in doubt if she doesn't post decent results in Indian Wells and Miami.

Defininitly. She has to make the QF.
__________________
Caroline Wozniacki - always my Nr. 1

Jelena Jankovic - Empress of WTA

Serena Williams - Simply Serena; simply the best!
Saraya! is offline View My Blog!  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old Mar 5th, 2013, 02:17 PM   #917
country flag bruce goose
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 13,644
bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
I understand Caro has technical flaws, but she always had them.
There's something going on mentally where she is too satisfied with going from a young superstar to a Jankovic situation, where she is irrelevant in discussions of who is going to win majors.
Wouldnt all of you be desperate by now, trying to save your career?
If she plays like Dubai, she should get to Vika.
If she doesnt, I think she has to start thinking about dealing specifically with mental issues that might be ruining her career
Actually,she WAS desperate,as we saw in her attempts to instantly get more aggressive,instead of gradually tinkering with her game as a better-coached player would do.

As much as I dread the potential outcome,it might be a very,very simple case where Caroline doesn't think that she's CAPABLE of staying at that level where Serena,Vika,Aga and Masha usually are(and where Li and Petra have ventured for stretches)....And I wouldn't call that an unusual mindset: Why WOULD Caroline think that she was capable of that?She has hardly ever beaten those better Slam-winning players(the word 'better' excludes the flukier champs like Fran and Stosur),and,when she HAS,it was always when those current elite players were either slumping slightly or not as good as they are NOW(Vika and Aga).

It's pretty clear that Piotr an the rest of the team can't offer Caro any plausible solutions for that elite brick wall and,though I'm very glad that she has such a warm,loving relationship with her family,Caro might be too emotionally dependent on Piotr--only ON-court,that is--to get the sort of coaching that could help her successfully tinker with her game and seriously challenge the elite.
__________________
Propaganda Director for the Olympic Slam Queen aboard SS Dementieva

Ste. Kim, we didn't have you for long enough, but we appreciate what you gave us

Our Slam: Islas Marias Prison Island Open--Benito Juarez Open(red clay)--Mazatlan Open(LOTS of Mexican 'grass' AND 'sugar')--the Mexico City Open(VERY poorly attended b/c almost NO ONE can get thru the traffic)
bruce goose is offline View My Blog!  
Old Mar 5th, 2013, 03:40 PM   #918
country flag ozza
Senior Member
 
ozza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 6,458
ozza has a reputation beyond repute ozza has a reputation beyond repute ozza has a reputation beyond repute ozza has a reputation beyond repute ozza has a reputation beyond repute ozza has a reputation beyond repute ozza has a reputation beyond repute ozza has a reputation beyond repute ozza has a reputation beyond repute ozza has a reputation beyond repute ozza has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce goose View Post
Actually,she WAS desperate,as we saw in her attempts to instantly get more aggressive,instead of gradually tinkering with her game as a better-coached player would do.

As much as I dread the potential outcome,it might be a very,very simple case where Caroline doesn't think that she's CAPABLE of staying at that level where Serena,Vika,Aga and Masha usually are(and where Li and Petra have ventured for stretches)....And I wouldn't call that an unusual mindset: Why WOULD Caroline think that she was capable of that?She has hardly ever beaten those better Slam-winning players(the word 'better' excludes the flukier champs like Fran and Stosur),and,when she HAS,it was always when those current elite players were either slumping slightly or not as good as they are NOW(Vika and Aga).

It's pretty clear that Piotr an the rest of the team can't offer Caro any plausible solutions for that elite brick wall and,though I'm very glad that she has such a warm,loving relationship with her family,Caro might be too emotionally dependent on Piotr--only ON-court,that is--to get the sort of coaching that could help her successfully tinker with her game and seriously challenge the elite.
The problem is Caro didn't react until it was too late. She was too reactive instead of proactive in her changes leading to the knee-jerk changes you saw last year. There was too little work on improving her game technically, while the others were working hard to do so. This meant disaster once she lost her confidence. The result is now, nearly 2 years later she is trying to go back to what she had 2 years ago, but there is 1 key ingredient missing - confidence. Back in 2010-2011 Caro believed in her game, now in the big matches she simply doesn't anymore. You can't just flick a switch on, and your confidence comes back, you only get it by winning matches, believing more in your game.

I agree that Piotr doesn't seem to have the solutions, I mean how long has he had without any real improvements. The only gain I see Piotr maybe provides is he keeps Caro in a better comfort zone emotionally, thus believing in herself more than maybe she would under another coach, but this can be span into a negative as well. It's seemingly not going to change anytime soon anyway.
ozza is offline View My Blog!  
Old Mar 5th, 2013, 04:03 PM   #919
country flag bruce goose
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 13,644
bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozza View Post
The problem is Caro didn't react until it was too late. She was too reactive instead of proactive in her changes leading to the knee-jerk changes you saw last year. There was too little work on improving her game technically, while the others were working hard to do so. This meant disaster once she lost her confidence. The result is now, nearly 2 years later she is trying to go back to what she had 2 years ago, but there is 1 key ingredient missing - confidence. Back in 2010-2011 Caro believed in her game, now in the big matches she simply doesn't anymore. You can't just flick a switch on, and your confidence comes back, you only get it by winning matches, believing more in your game.

I agree that Piotr doesn't seem to have the solutions, I mean how long has he had without any real improvements. The only gain I see Piotr maybe provides is he keeps Caro in a better comfort zone emotionally, thus believing in herself more than maybe she would under another coach, but this can be span into a negative as well. It's seemingly not going to change anytime soon anyway.
This was a good post but,even though it's very hard to quantify,let's focus on confidence for a sec.It's pretty much never all or nothing,IMO;that is,almost nobody in the pro game has literally ZERO confidence,and even the MOST confident players occasionally get down on themeselves--even legends.

Caroline still has the confidence to reach Slam QFs,I think,and that's b/c she has a BASIS for that confidence in knowing that she's better than the players she'd normally face en route to said QF...but what basis does Caroline have for thinking that she can overcome the current elite?Almost NONE!True,she has an isolated win vs. Serena and a couple vs. Masha,yet Caro has never gotten that big win when BOTH players were at their best and she managed to overcome.Before anyone complains,we realize that Caro has no control over what form her opponent is in going into a match;however,all of those Slam-winning,top-ranked players have had pivotal career victories when they overcame another top player even though the foe was in fairly strong form...and Caroline has no such victories as I can recall.Therefore,there's no basis for confidence in such encounters,and Piotr and the team don't appear capable of instilling that in her right now
__________________
Propaganda Director for the Olympic Slam Queen aboard SS Dementieva

Ste. Kim, we didn't have you for long enough, but we appreciate what you gave us

Our Slam: Islas Marias Prison Island Open--Benito Juarez Open(red clay)--Mazatlan Open(LOTS of Mexican 'grass' AND 'sugar')--the Mexico City Open(VERY poorly attended b/c almost NO ONE can get thru the traffic)
bruce goose is offline View My Blog!  
Old Mar 5th, 2013, 05:52 PM   #920
country flag CWTennis
Senior Member
 
CWTennis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,254
CWTennis has a reputation beyond repute CWTennis has a reputation beyond repute CWTennis has a reputation beyond repute CWTennis has a reputation beyond repute CWTennis has a reputation beyond repute CWTennis has a reputation beyond repute CWTennis has a reputation beyond repute CWTennis has a reputation beyond repute CWTennis has a reputation beyond repute CWTennis has a reputation beyond repute CWTennis has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

bobsinclar Bob Sinclar
Just arrived at Indian Wells , cool to bump into the great @Carowozniacki ! http://instagr.am/p/WfH5l_Kq9x/
__________________
Caroline''Sunshine'' Wozniacki

You got yourself some haterZ
Hope they choke on Now and Laters™

CWTennis is offline View My Blog!  
Old Mar 5th, 2013, 06:00 PM   #921
country flag Jorn
Good Luck Caro in 2014!
 
Jorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Denmark
Posts: 130,174
Jorn has a reputation beyond repute Jorn has a reputation beyond repute Jorn has a reputation beyond repute Jorn has a reputation beyond repute Jorn has a reputation beyond repute Jorn has a reputation beyond repute Jorn has a reputation beyond repute Jorn has a reputation beyond repute Jorn has a reputation beyond repute Jorn has a reputation beyond repute Jorn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Is that her new bf... How's it going with Rory?
__________________
Please visit my Caroline websites!

Caroline Wozniacki Result page
Caroline Wozniacki tennis Forums
Jorn is offline View My Blog!  
Old Mar 5th, 2013, 06:02 PM   #922
country flag Saraya!
Senior Member
 
Saraya!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 22,534
Saraya! has a reputation beyond repute Saraya! has a reputation beyond repute Saraya! has a reputation beyond repute Saraya! has a reputation beyond repute Saraya! has a reputation beyond repute Saraya! has a reputation beyond repute Saraya! has a reputation beyond repute Saraya! has a reputation beyond repute Saraya! has a reputation beyond repute Saraya! has a reputation beyond repute Saraya! has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

With Rory everything ok..he told press, he sold his house in Ireland and go to live with Caro in the new place in Miami.
__________________
Caroline Wozniacki - always my Nr. 1

Jelena Jankovic - Empress of WTA

Serena Williams - Simply Serena; simply the best!
Saraya! is offline View My Blog!  
Old Mar 5th, 2013, 06:04 PM   #923
country flag Jorn
Good Luck Caro in 2014!
 
Jorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Denmark
Posts: 130,174
Jorn has a reputation beyond repute Jorn has a reputation beyond repute Jorn has a reputation beyond repute Jorn has a reputation beyond repute Jorn has a reputation beyond repute Jorn has a reputation beyond repute Jorn has a reputation beyond repute Jorn has a reputation beyond repute Jorn has a reputation beyond repute Jorn has a reputation beyond repute Jorn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

He will get Questions at the pre-Golf pressers this week...
__________________
Please visit my Caroline websites!

Caroline Wozniacki Result page
Caroline Wozniacki tennis Forums
Jorn is offline View My Blog!  
Old Mar 5th, 2013, 07:32 PM   #924
country flag goldenlox
Senior Member
 
goldenlox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: cyberspace
Posts: 85,894
goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozza View Post
The problem is Caro didn't react until it was too late. She was too reactive instead of proactive in her changes leading to the knee-jerk changes you saw last year. There was too little work on improving her game technically, while the others were working hard to do so. This meant disaster once she lost her confidence. The result is now, nearly 2 years later she is trying to go back to what she had 2 years ago, but there is 1 key ingredient missing - confidence. Back in 2010-2011 Caro believed in her game, now in the big matches she simply doesn't anymore. You can't just flick a switch on, and your confidence comes back, you only get it by winning matches, believing more in your game.

I agree that Piotr doesn't seem to have the solutions, I mean how long has he had without any real improvements. The only gain I see Piotr maybe provides is he keeps Caro in a better comfort zone emotionally, thus believing in herself more than maybe she would under another coach, but this can be span into a negative as well. It's seemingly not going to change anytime soon anyway.
We're all watching this the last 2 years. Its partly coaching, no part of her game looks to be improving.
Partly confidence. Up 5-3 in set 2 vs Aga, then loses 4 games in a row.
Partly lack of consistent focus, she lost 4 different 3rd sets in only 6 tournaments, none of those players made a run after beating Caro.

I think she might need help from not only a fulltime coach, but a mental professional, to focus better and believe in herself.
After IW, Serena & Li will probably be back, then its clay & grass. So its only getting tougher.
The good part of the 1st half of a year should be her Australian run, all hardcourt. Not this year
__________________
The most wasted of all days is one without laughter....
Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there
Enjoy This Moment!!
HEALTH and HAPPINESS to EVERYONE

goldenlox is offline View My Blog!  
Old Mar 5th, 2013, 07:42 PM   #925
country flag bruce goose
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 13,644
bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

It sounds like a reasonable proposal;however,Caro might be very reluctant to trust an 'outsider' after her ultra-brief coaching experiments failed.To me,she has always seemed disinclined to go outside of her father's camp.The other problem is that Caroline and crew might not think that an outside pro could help.To be honest,Caroline's lack of confidence doesn't stem from any irrational mental complexes;rather,it's QUITE logical that she doesn't see herself,with her game as it currently stands,capable of beating Serena,Vika,Aga or Petra(possibly even Masha,Li and Kerber)if those others are in form.Of course,Caro always has a chance if one of them gets injured,even slightly,during the match...but that's not good when you have to hang your hopes there
__________________
Propaganda Director for the Olympic Slam Queen aboard SS Dementieva

Ste. Kim, we didn't have you for long enough, but we appreciate what you gave us

Our Slam: Islas Marias Prison Island Open--Benito Juarez Open(red clay)--Mazatlan Open(LOTS of Mexican 'grass' AND 'sugar')--the Mexico City Open(VERY poorly attended b/c almost NO ONE can get thru the traffic)
bruce goose is offline View My Blog!  
Old Mar 5th, 2013, 09:17 PM   #926
marineblue
Senior Member
 
marineblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,564
marineblue has a reputation beyond repute marineblue has a reputation beyond repute marineblue has a reputation beyond repute marineblue has a reputation beyond repute marineblue has a reputation beyond repute marineblue has a reputation beyond repute marineblue has a reputation beyond repute marineblue has a reputation beyond repute marineblue has a reputation beyond repute marineblue has a reputation beyond repute marineblue has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce goose View Post
Actually,she WAS desperate,as we saw in her attempts to instantly get more aggressive,instead of gradually tinkering with her game as a better-coached player would do.

As much as I dread the potential outcome,it might be a very,very simple case where Caroline doesn't think that she's CAPABLE of staying at that level where Serena,Vika,Aga and Masha usually are(and where Li and Petra have ventured for stretches)....And I wouldn't call that an unusual mindset: Why WOULD Caroline think that she was capable of that?She has hardly ever beaten those better Slam-winning players(the word 'better' excludes the flukier champs like Fran and Stosur),and,when she HAS,it was always when those current elite players were either slumping slightly or not as good as they are NOW(Vika and Aga).

It's pretty clear that Piotr an the rest of the team can't offer Caro any plausible solutions for that elite brick wall and,though I'm very glad that she has such a warm,loving relationship with her family,Caro might be too emotionally dependent on Piotr--only ON-court,that is--to get the sort of coaching that could help her successfully tinker with her game and seriously challenge the elite.
Why would she think so? Because she was beating those players in the past when they were doing well. They were all in top 10 and winning tournaments so the claim about them slumping is a myth. They were not as consistent as now however they weren't in a slump at all. Right now she is not beating them because she is not the same self-assured player as she was in 2011.
I suspect that Caroline has changed her game because she was convinced to do so by her team who fell for the 'experts' opinions. It wasn't an act of desperation,like all other players she also knows she has to work on her game and the talk when she was a no.1 always went along the same lines : she has to be more aggressive, has to improve her FH etc etc
If you were at the no1 position in the world and so many people were telling you that including the experts in the field would it not tempt you to try what they were advising? I think many players would apply the changes a lot sooner and more drastically than she did. Now there's actually quite a few players who sacked their parents as coaches and hired a professional. And they weren't even getting as much pressure as Caro did.
I think Caroline's game will finally 'click' when she returns 100% to the style she feels comfortable with. Pushing herself out of the comfort zone did nothing positive for her and sometimes I have an impression she is still trying to do that.
marineblue is offline View My Blog!  
Old Mar 5th, 2013, 11:13 PM   #927
country flag ozza
Senior Member
 
ozza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 6,458
ozza has a reputation beyond repute ozza has a reputation beyond repute ozza has a reputation beyond repute ozza has a reputation beyond repute ozza has a reputation beyond repute ozza has a reputation beyond repute ozza has a reputation beyond repute ozza has a reputation beyond repute ozza has a reputation beyond repute ozza has a reputation beyond repute ozza has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by marineblue View Post
Why would she think so? Because she was beating those players in the past when they were doing well. They were all in top 10 and winning tournaments so the claim about them slumping is a myth. They were not as consistent as now however they weren't in a slump at all. Right now she is not beating them because she is not the same self-assured player as she was in 2011.
I suspect that Caroline has changed her game because she was convinced to do so by her team who fell for the 'experts' opinions. It wasn't an act of desperation,like all other players she also knows she has to work on her game and the talk when she was a no.1 always went along the same lines : she has to be more aggressive, has to improve her FH etc etc
If you were at the no1 position in the world and so many people were telling you that including the experts in the field would it not tempt you to try what they were advising? I think many players would apply the changes a lot sooner and more drastically than she did. Now there's actually quite a few players who sacked their parents as coaches and hired a professional. And they weren't even getting as much pressure as Caro did.
I think Caroline's game will finally 'click' when she returns 100% to the style she feels comfortable with. Pushing herself out of the comfort zone did nothing positive for her and sometimes I have an impression she is still trying to do that.
If you're caving to outside pressure from "experts" on how to change your game you have to be pretty insecure with your own game. The fact she blew up her game style rather than improving what she has was a mistake that goes deeper than 2012, by 2012 there was clearly panic in her actions (going through coaches etc.). Caro had been sitting on her game for a while, but if you're standing still in tennis you will go backwards because the others will be out improving.

The problem is it's not as simple as just getting your old game back. When you're talking nearly 2 years removed from playing your best tennis, that's a long time to just not have improved when you're 22. Confidence is the major factor which you cannot just get back easily. When you make 2 bad errors to lose a match at 4*-5, a lot of that is down to mental factors as opposed to game factors. Vs Aga she just plays like someone who has no belief in her game to win.
ozza is offline View My Blog!  
Old Mar 6th, 2013, 01:11 AM   #928
country flag bruce goose
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 13,644
bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by marineblue View Post
Why would she think so? Because she was beating those players in the past when they were doing well. They were all in top 10 and winning tournaments so the claim about them slumping is a myth. They were not as consistent as now however they weren't in a slump at all. Right now she is not beating them because she is not the same self-assured player as she was in 2011.
I suspect that Caroline has changed her game because she was convinced to do so by her team who fell for the 'experts' opinions. It wasn't an act of desperation,like all other players she also knows she has to work on her game and the talk when she was a no.1 always went along the same lines : she has to be more aggressive, has to improve her FH etc etc
If you were at the no1 position in the world and so many people were telling you that including the experts in the field would it not tempt you to try what they were advising? I think many players would apply the changes a lot sooner and more drastically than she did. Now there's actually quite a few players who sacked their parents as coaches and hired a professional. And they weren't even getting as much pressure as Caro did.
I think Caroline's game will finally 'click' when she returns 100% to the style she feels comfortable with. Pushing herself out of the comfort zone did nothing positive for her and sometimes I have an impression she is still trying to do that.
Ummmm....No,she wasn't beating those top players.The FACTS are ZERO wins vs. Venus,Henin and Clijsters,and only one vs.Serena.Perhaps I shouldn't overuse the word 'slump',but my point was that Serena wasn't in her Slam-winning mode when Caroline beat her.That's not Caroline's fault,of course,yet it goes back to what I posted before.I recall when Henin outclassed Serena once even on Wimbledon's grass....Henin's weakest Slam,overall,and on a surface where Serena often overpowered even seeded players.Justine had a losing record vs. Serena,but it was certainly a respectable H2H,and Justine built her confidence based on her previous successes beating Serena even in big matches when Ree WASN'T making loads of UEs.

Caroline can't point to one single match...and you didn't NAME one,either...when a top opponent was in GOAT mode,and yet Caro won.Masha might not have been slumping,per se,but she was hardly impressing folks with her play when Caroline beat her,so the victories were no huge surprise.

I respectfully state that your logic is a bit flawed: If Caro really DID beat top players when they were at their best,then why shouldn't she have confidence when facing them NOW??Clearly,Caroline--who's no dummy--realizes that Aga and Vika are MUCH better now than they were back when Caro defeated them.If someone beat Venus when she was a 14-year-old WC playing her first tourneys,do you honestly believe that such a player would be CONFIDENT,based on that previous win,when facing the mature Venus so many years later??I used a more extreme example to illustrate WHY Caroline doesn't have confidence--understandably not--when playing her dear friends who have improved so much while Caro hasn't at all since that time.I'll agree with you that Caro's struggles have played a part;however,it's no better than questionable,when you look at Caro's career zero victory totals that I mention above vs. the legends,that even the more stable Caro would have had success against her rising buddies.

I can't PROVE that Caroline was desperate;I simply used the word out of convenience b/c,superficially,that's how it looked.It was almost absurd that she would make such a huge 180-degree turn from being a counterpuncher to being OVER-aggressive;it smacked of VERY poor planning...perhaps desperation,perhaps not.I'll close by touching on one of Ozza's key points: If Caroline lacked confidence in her previous game such that she abandoned it when she was #1,then how on earth could you expect her to have confidence NOW when facing superior opponents whom she hasn't beaten when they were at this level?I'm not trying to be insulting at all,okay,but that doesn't sound very logical to me
__________________
Propaganda Director for the Olympic Slam Queen aboard SS Dementieva

Ste. Kim, we didn't have you for long enough, but we appreciate what you gave us

Our Slam: Islas Marias Prison Island Open--Benito Juarez Open(red clay)--Mazatlan Open(LOTS of Mexican 'grass' AND 'sugar')--the Mexico City Open(VERY poorly attended b/c almost NO ONE can get thru the traffic)
bruce goose is offline View My Blog!  
Old Mar 6th, 2013, 07:28 AM   #929
marineblue
Senior Member
 
marineblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,564
marineblue has a reputation beyond repute marineblue has a reputation beyond repute marineblue has a reputation beyond repute marineblue has a reputation beyond repute marineblue has a reputation beyond repute marineblue has a reputation beyond repute marineblue has a reputation beyond repute marineblue has a reputation beyond repute marineblue has a reputation beyond repute marineblue has a reputation beyond repute marineblue has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozza View Post
If you're caving to outside pressure from "experts" on how to change your game you have to be pretty insecure with your own game. The fact she blew up her game style rather than improving what she has was a mistake that goes deeper than 2012, by 2012 there was clearly panic in her actions (going through coaches etc.). Caro had been sitting on her game for a while, but if you're standing still in tennis you will go backwards because the others will be out improving.

The problem is it's not as simple as just getting your old game back. When you're talking nearly 2 years removed from playing your best tennis, that's a long time to just not have improved when you're 22. Confidence is the major factor which you cannot just get back easily. When you make 2 bad errors to lose a match at 4*-5, a lot of that is down to mental factors as opposed to game factors. Vs Aga she just plays like someone who has no belief in her game to win.
She wasn't caving to anything, just wanted to try to add to her game. There she was as no.1 and winning many events and she wanted to add some slams to her resume,of course. It's only normal to try improve to do so, how can you consider that a caving? All of the players are trying to improve their games to stay ahead of the competition.
Getting the old game back on the level as it was before could help her although we don't know how that would work out against the top players. IMO, certainly better than what she tried to do in 2012 . With the old game she was not so error-prone and when she went for winners she hit more of 'safe' shots. She's won some tough matches this season by managing to cut down the errors(eg vs Bartoli; Lisicki). This could be a starting point for her she could build on.
marineblue is offline View My Blog!  
Old Mar 6th, 2013, 08:28 AM   #930
marineblue
Senior Member
 
marineblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,564
marineblue has a reputation beyond repute marineblue has a reputation beyond repute marineblue has a reputation beyond repute marineblue has a reputation beyond repute marineblue has a reputation beyond repute marineblue has a reputation beyond repute marineblue has a reputation beyond repute marineblue has a reputation beyond repute marineblue has a reputation beyond repute marineblue has a reputation beyond repute marineblue has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce goose View Post
Ummmm....No,she wasn't beating those top players.The FACTS are ZERO wins vs. Venus,Henin and Clijsters,and only one vs.Serena.Perhaps I shouldn't overuse the word 'slump',but my point was that Serena wasn't in her Slam-winning mode when Caroline beat her.That's not Caroline's fault,of course,yet it goes back to what I posted before.I recall when Henin outclassed Serena once even on Wimbledon's grass....Henin's weakest Slam,overall,and on a surface where Serena often overpowered even seeded players.Justine had a losing record vs. Serena,but it was certainly a respectable H2H,and Justine built her confidence based on her previous successes beating Serena even in big matches when Ree WASN'T making loads of UEs.

Caroline can't point to one single match...and you didn't NAME one,either...when a top opponent was in GOAT mode,and yet Caro won.Masha might not have been slumping,per se,but she was hardly impressing folks with her play when Caroline beat her,so the victories were no huge surprise.

I respectfully state that your logic is a bit flawed: If Caro really DID beat top players when they were at their best,then why shouldn't she have confidence when facing them NOW??Clearly,Caroline--who's no dummy--realizes that Aga and Vika are MUCH better now than they were back when Caro defeated them.If someone beat Venus when she was a 14-year-old WC playing her first tourneys,do you honestly believe that such a player would be CONFIDENT,based on that previous win,when facing the mature Venus so many years later??I used a more extreme example to illustrate WHY Caroline doesn't have confidence--understandably not--when playing her dear friends who have improved so much while Caro hasn't at all since that time.I'll agree with you that Caro's struggles have played a part;however,it's no better than questionable,when you look at Caro's career zero victory totals that I mention above vs. the legends,that even the more stable Caro would have had success against her rising buddies.

I can't PROVE that Caroline was desperate;I simply used the word out of convenience b/c,superficially,that's how it looked.It was almost absurd that she would make such a huge 180-degree turn from being a counterpuncher to being OVER-aggressive;it smacked of VERY poor planning...perhaps desperation,perhaps not.I'll close by touching on one of Ozza's key points: If Caroline lacked confidence in her previous game such that she abandoned it when she was #1,then how on earth could you expect her to have confidence NOW when facing superior opponents whom she hasn't beaten when they were at this level?I'm not trying to be insulting at all,okay,but that doesn't sound very logical to me

1.If you compare any of the top 4's H2H with players like Henin, Clijsters, Serena, Venus the results won't be impressive neither. Some of them were not on the tour for large period of the time when Caro was at her best. She's also played them only a handful of times. For example, at her best she did not have as many chances to face Serena as Vika had during her time as a no.1. Vika has beaten Serena only once.

2.As far as playing players who were at the GOAT mode, that's very subjective and hard for me to assess as I'm not educated in technical aspects of tennis . I think that her match against Aga at YEC, a few years back, or recently Marion in Dubai could go into that category.

3.Caroline doesn't have the same confidence as in the past because her game got worse because of the changes they tried. She's no longer the player she was in 2010-2011 which is why she's now getting beaten by the players against whom she had a good record in the past. Of course, they've improved but she also regressed,that can hardly be denied.

4.As far as the reason for switch in her game, I addressed that in my post to Ozza earlier. In short, after 2011 they decided to try to experiment and apply some of the ideas in order for Caro to stay in touch with rivals and win a slam. It was not desperation but rather trying to stay competitive. At least that's how I see it.
marineblue is offline View My Blog!  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios