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Old Jun 13th, 2013, 03:50 PM   #3511
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by bruce goose View Post
Not sure whom you're targeting, but I don't spend one spare second worrying about Caroline's tennis when I lie down to sleep at night

Coming to TF is just a diversion for me, as I'm usually way too busy at work to hang out here very much.When aye DO come here, I mainly focus on my faves, Caro and Petra...pretty much just Caro in this particular forum.The fact is, Caro kind of stinks right now compared to what she's capable of.That's not "taking things too seriously" or "acting like it's life and death"; it's just a frank assessment of Caro's on-court struggles.It's disappointing to see her underachieve, yet saying that isn't tantamount to exaggerating the importance of tennis in the greater scope of human life.I've never once bashed Rory as Caro's bf or as a person......it just seems like a simple concept to have a companion AND hold a job at the same time, so an intelligent gal such as Caro should be quite capable of that.If extremely-busy heads of state can have wives or husbands, then a tennis player should have it easy, by comparison
I'm not targetting anyone specific. But I'm challenging the belief that a tennisplayer can't possibly enjoy life a long time after losing a match.

Let's have a look at this purely hypothetical scenario: One of Caro's friends, or a bff, her brother, a cousin or someone else close to her is getting married, and Caro's at the wedding. Afterwards, Caro phones the bride/groom and tells them this:

"Oh, it was such a nice wedding - I really enjoyed it. I'm so happy for you. You were lovely, absolutely gorgeous. And what a party! I've never had such a good time. But... please don't be offendend ... but I'm not going to express any joy about your wedding publicly. You know, I lost this match in the 1st round a week ago, so I can't possibly express any kind of joy publicly for 90 days. It would just seem awkward or forced. I'm sure you understand. Love you!"
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Old Jun 13th, 2013, 03:58 PM   #3512
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by Protoss View Post
That's why I'd prefer that Caro hadn't signed up for Eastbourne.

Maybe next year she'll sign up for Birmingham since I think that's supposed to be a premier tournament.
I said this for a month now. The way she's playing, she should be practicing indoors on hardcourt.
She has to improve the level of her game. Playing these tournaments where bad weather means no one is on any court is not helping her.
She could have went from Paris, right after her round 2 loss, to an indoor court in Monaco and still be there, waiting to go to Wimbledon. Then after her post Wimbledon vacation, back to indoor hardcourt practice
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Old Jun 13th, 2013, 04:03 PM   #3513
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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I'm with Trey. It's almost as if some of you would be much more happy if Caro tweeted stuff like: "I'm miserable. I'm going to throw myself in the murky waters of the Seine".

Come on now. Cheer up. It's tennis. Just tennis. I'm sure Caro's problems are infinitely small compared to almost any other human being on this planet.
To a certain extent I think a mindset like this is part of the problem for Caro though. Winning or losing used to be a very big deal to Caro. She wanted to win or at least not lose more than most players and I think that at least part of her success came from that greater desire. Now winning or losing doesn't seem as important to Caro.

The greats in sports generally have a very strong desire for success. Serena was so upset about her 1st round loss at the French Open last year that she stayed in her hotel room for two days after the match.
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Old Jun 13th, 2013, 04:22 PM   #3514
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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She probably over played and wore herself out.
If that is true, she should practice less and be fresher and more focused when she plays.
Because she lost 8 of her last 11 matches, she isnt on court a lot during matches. She's finished early in the week. So if this lack of focus is because she's worn down, she probably needs more time away from tennis courts after she loses.
Caro has played 26 tournaments in the past year which is way more than the Wta rules require. The Wta rules for year end top 10 players require them to play 14 tournaments in a season and you can always take a 0 pointer if you don't want to play one of those tournaments.

So if Caro is feeling burned out she could and probably should cut down on the # tournaments she's playing by quite a bit.
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Old Jun 13th, 2013, 04:38 PM   #3515
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Except that I don't see the WTA as any players "boss." Tennis is an individual sport which means that everyone is his or her own boss. And if you as a player belong to the spoiled and pampered category, it must mean that you're pretty good. And you don't become good in a sport (especially not an individual sport) without having put in the work. Someone always has to win and someone has to lose. It doesn't necessarily mean that the loser is a lazy bum and that the winner works his or her ass off 24/7. Even if every single player out there had the work ethic of a, say, Sharapova or Djokovic, there would still be players who win or lose. Who is the WTA to judge who works hard and who doesn't? How do they even know. Stacy can't be looking over everyone's shoulder 24/7 to see what the're doing. Besides, if you don't work hard enough there's no need for the WTA or anyone else to punish you. You're already punishing yourself because your results will go down. And if that player doesn't care about that, well, than it's only right that she'll get passed by other girls who want it more.

But none of this has anything to do with Caroline, no matter if you have your point of view on this or mine. I definitely believe that Caroline IS working hard. But it's just not happening anymore for her. Why? We can only guess. But if Stacy would one day walk up to Caro and say, "no more golf for you Caro. You need to train harder" I'd bet that Caro would say, "mind your own business Stacy." And I would applaud her for it. In fact, if I was her I would at my next tournament turn up poorly dressed and with a bottle of booze in my hands (the unshaven part is kinda difficult for Caro ) just to make my point. But that last sentence is probably just the anti-establishment old hippie part of me speaking again.
Sorry,Gaston, that's piss-ant reasoning;when Hingis failed a drug test a couple years back,she was essentially FIRED and not allowed to return to work w/o some sort of status review....that's AFTER one year had passed.Your final statements smacked of truth as you basically admitted that it was your personal tastes that made you dislike the concept of the WTA as boss.

As I've said,they are WAY too often a pathetically-weak,shiftless boss, but they are a boss nonetheless.I can't speak for your own work experiences but,in the REAL world, when an employee acts like a jerk-off, that employee MIGHT be given second chances IF there was a prior record of good performance.If the employee doesn't respond to the threat of being replaced, then he/she is simply let go as the company finds a more dedicated person to step in.I've already detailed a VERY easy disciplinary plan whereby the WTA--if they had a set of balls--would simply reduce a Joke-ass Player to non-person status in re promos.Nothing bothers a spoiled bitch more than getting ignored or,even worse,getting supplanted by another vain,pretty gal.It's basic psychology,really.It would take a couple years to set in, but the WTA would become a better place...and a FAR more credible sport...if the players understood from the get-go that they wouldn't be treated like stars w/o sincere effort--REGARDLESS of their looks.

I have no idea--and neither do YOU--exactly how much Caroline is affected by the No-accountability WTA subculture,but it'd be naive to pretend that she wasn't affected by it at all.Your comment that it's impossible to tell who's working hard is simply retarded,Gaston.The majority of businesses have work evaluations for their employees,even though there's some degree of subjectivity to those analyses.As I've said,only the obvious offenders would be placed on non-person status with my proposal while others would be given the benefit of the doubt until they'd had a chance to prove themselves.

I've got to head to work so,once you come down from your herb-induced high,you may think this over more clearly.

@Angliru,thank you for clarifying
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Old Jun 13th, 2013, 05:30 PM   #3516
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Life is good! (apparently) Practiced for 3 hours, Does that mean she's got a new coach?? Sounds like it?? or not??
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Old Jun 13th, 2013, 05:51 PM   #3517
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Life is good! (apparently) Practiced for 3 hours, Does that mean she's got a new coach?? Sounds like it?? or not??
No. I think having a new full time coach would get its own tweet.
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Old Jun 13th, 2013, 05:59 PM   #3518
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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No. I think having a new full time coach would get its own tweet.


Yeah probably true, sorry just getting a little edgy/nervous to see who he or she is.
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Old Jun 13th, 2013, 06:40 PM   #3519
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by angliru View Post
You all have your own theories about her slump. It's Rory, it's her racket, it's Piotr, it's WTA, it's lack of motivation, it's her sponsors, it's her schedule, it's the change of her game, her forehand, too much training, not enough training and so on.

The truth is probably that it is a combination of all these thing and many more, like her competitors have become better while she has stagnated, and her competitors have become more motivated (beating a #1 or former #1 is always a highlight on a cv)! It must be a really complex issue and not just a simple thing. I don't know more than anyone else here, but it must be like that: A really complicated mixture of issues. Otherwise it would have been fixed a long time ago - probably already in 2011!
The odd thing is that during this slump Caro has had periods of good to pretty good tennis like the end of last season.

I don't think a better/more motivated competitors explanation is that applicable to Caro's situation considering how many losses to players outside the top 30/top 40 she's had this year compared to last year.

I find it kind of strange how Caro's results dropped off so badly after the Indian Wells final. Who would have thought that Caro's results on clay would end up being worse than last year's?
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Old Jun 13th, 2013, 07:24 PM   #3520
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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I don't think a better/more motivated competitors explanation is that applicable to Caro's situation considering how many losses to players outside the top 30/top 40 she's had this year compared to last year.
I don't know for sure, but I noticed during 2011 that several of Caro's opponents after having beaten her were extremely happy to have beaten the #1 (players like Vinci, McHale, Petkovic, Görges. Possibly not all of these, but at least some expressed something like that during interviews). It was as if beating the no. 1 gave these players new hope about their own careers. This led me to believe that players were generally more motivated when playing against Caro than, say, against Bartoli. Caro's No. 1 ranking seems such a long time away now, and it probably doesn't matter much anymore. But I'm quite sure it did motivate her opponents when she held the no. 1 spot, and possibly long into 2012 as well.

EDIT: I agree that this "motivation theory" doesn't really explain her lousy 2013 clay season. But I think it was one of several reasons to her downfall which started already 2011...

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Old Jun 13th, 2013, 08:08 PM   #3521
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by Protoss View Post
To a certain extent I think a mindset like this is part of the problem for Caro though. Winning or losing used to be a very big deal to Caro. She wanted to win or at least not lose more than most players and I think that at least part of her success came from that greater desire. Now winning or losing doesn't seem as important to Caro.

The greats in sports generally have a very strong desire for success. Serena was so upset about her 1st round loss at the French Open last year that she stayed in her hotel room for two days after the match.
This is quite interesting. Caroline was once known as Miss Sunshine. She was happy on court. She was friendly towards her opponents. I liked that! She could play a final against Vesnina and go to a dinner with her afterwards (winner pays!).

Former players working as commentators (Evert, Davenport, Fernandez, I don't exactly remember which ones) weren't too happy: Players shouldn't get along like that! It was not right! Still, Caro could go on holiday with Aga, Ula, and Angie, or she could meet up with Vika at the weirdest places. Yet she rose to no. 1 in the world in spite of the camaraderie. Vika did too.

Players are different. Björn Borg and John McEnroe had very different personalities. Caro and Serena also have different personalities. Serena's attitude works very well for her, and there's nothing wrong with that. But I want Caro to be like Caro. There's nothing wrong with that either. I wish Caro would show us more of the happy smiling Caro from a few years ago.

But she certainly seems to have lost a lot of motivation. I would look foolish if I tried to deny that. Whenever I open a livescore thread here (which isn't very often though) I see comments like "she doesn't want to be on the court", "she's not even trying", "she just want to get out of there". I actually agree.

But I'm sure losing still hurts. It's just too complicated at the moment. There are too many hurdles. And don't forget: There are hundreds of players out there, and they're all working just as hard as Caro, and they all want to be the best. Losing 5 matches in a row is pretty awful. Staying at #9 is quite good though. And I'm sure there's more to come. Much more.
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Old Jun 13th, 2013, 08:30 PM   #3522
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by angliru View Post
I don't know for sure, but I noticed during 2011 that several of Caro's opponents after having beaten her were extremely happy to have beaten the #1 (players like Vinci, McHale, Petkovic, Görges. Possibly not all of these, but at least some expressed something like that during interviews). It was as if beating the no. 1 gave these players new hope about their own careers. This led me to believe that players were generally more motivated when playing against Caro than, say, against Bartoli. Caro's No. 1 ranking seems such a long time away now, and it probably doesn't matter much anymore. But I'm quite sure it did motivate her opponents when she held the no. 1 spot, and possibly long into 2012 as well.

EDIT: I agree that this "motivation theory" doesn't really explain her lousy 2013 clay season. But I think it was one of several reasons to her downfall which started already 2011...
This is of course true, there is always motivation to beat the world number 1, whether you actually believe you can do it is another thing altogether. Even now most of Caro's opponents come in with great motivation to beat her. She is still a great name win on your CV, look how many players best win this year has come vs Caroline. I saw a Jovanovski interview in Birmingham talking about how she's had a good year beating Wozniacki twice, Jovanovski has done next to nothing outside of beating Caro all year, but beating Caro twice makes her CV for the year look a lot better. It's like in boxing when you are in your prime there's a lot of ducking and diving to avoid you, as soon as you look past your prime, everyone is queuing up to take you on, because you are a good name on the resume.

Of course the down side now is opponents actually believe they can beat Wozniacki, and their heads won't just totally drop once they go down 2-0 in the first set.
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Old Jun 13th, 2013, 08:46 PM   #3523
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Yes and back in 2011 she enjoyed slugging it out against players who took her to 3, I want that caro back!!
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Old Jun 13th, 2013, 11:18 PM   #3524
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

I saw Mona Match today against Madison Key and it look like her coach isn't Michael Mortensen because she had an female coach with her unless he couldn't make it and she had too get someoneelse too fill his spot but if he not Mona coach I think Caroline should think about Michael Mortensen on being her coach if not him Wim Fisette might be an good c
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Old Jun 14th, 2013, 09:08 AM   #3525
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Mona wants a full-time coach, and she'd like to work with Michael Mortensen. But their initial deal was French Open only.

I guess the problem is Michael Mortensen's other jobs. He's had a lot of coaching jobs throughout the years: Head coach for more than a decade at Denmark's biggest tennis club, KB (he's not with them anymore though). He's had coaching or captain jobs for the Danish Fed Cup or Davis Cup teams; coaching jobs for Caroline & Li Na, plus a lot more. And he's been working as a tv commentator. Denmark is a pretty expensive country to live in, and I'm sure someone in his position - living in expensive Denmark, being in his early 50's and often having a lot of different jobs at the same time - is used to getting a pretty big paycheck each month. So even if he wanted to work full-time with Mona, then he'd probably have to keep one of his other jobs to maintain the sort of income he's used to. And that's not what Mona needs if she wants a full-time coach. (All of this is pure guesswork though).

He's also said his family life matters a lot. He basically had the same issues when working with Li Na, if I remember correctly.
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