[Protoss]

Originally Posted by goldenlox

Caroline just had 2 very ordinary draws and lost early. So this is something different. After she lost in round 3 to Kanepi, she didnt win a match for 2 months. So getting a soft first 2 rounds didnt help her. Playing someone who is having an awful day, like her one win this year vs URad, just masks the problems that she's having.

She & her dad have to look at every facet of her practice sessions. The goal is not to work hard in practice then underachieve in matches.
Thats been happening for too long now. Might be for the rest of her career if they dont figure out how to make her practices a way to improve her game

Caro's two previous matches against Pervak had been tough and Kuznetsova has been tough in a lot of their previous matches. So I these players as at least somewhat challenging draws.

Good defenders and big servers tend to give Caro problems even when she's in a lot better form.

If Caro is to find her way back to good form, she's gonna have to grind a lot (in the mental sense) and she's probably gonna need some help from her opponents. An opponent having an awful day gives Caro a lot better chance of winning and getting to play another match where she can keep on trying to find her rhythm.

She only played two tournaments in those two months. Her scheduling was actually her norm for that period of the year.

Yah, her practices need to closely examined. Perhaps they could bring in some sort of consultant to watch a few practice sessions and make some recommendations.

[Protoss]

Originally Posted by marineblue

I think that had she not experimented with her style she could have won a slam at this point. She lost in the past but she did also score some great victories so it seemed to me she was on a right path to get there. In 2012 she took a step back so now she needs to find her game again and string enough wins together to feel confident again.

No, Caro would have had to beat one or more of Serena, Vika, Sharapova, or Aga to win a slam and I don't think a defensive style would have gotten the win or wins.

[Protoss]

I got the feeling that the 1st match between Caro and Lisicki is gonna be a routine win for one of them unlike the hype. I'm not sure who's gonna win though.

[marineblue]

Originally Posted by Protoss

No, Caro would have had to beat one or more of Serena, Vika, Sharapova, or Aga to win a slam and I don't think a defensive style would have gotten the win or wins.

I disagree.She's beaten all of these players playing this way. She was beaten by them when she made the changes. When she was at her peak the opponent did not have to have a bad day, she was able to force them into errors. Right now, she is reliant on opponent form because she's no longer as good at it as she was before.

[DownInAHole]

Originally Posted by Protoss

No, Caro would have had to beat one or more of Serena, Vika, Sharapova, or Aga to win a slam and I don't think a defensive style would have gotten the win or wins.

It is impossible to know for sure but I agree that it seems unlikely that the "old" Caroline would have won a slam with her game. I realise that this is an unpopular opinion here but I do believe that she benefited from the circumstances in the WTA circa 2010/2011. Serena was out, Kim wasn't playing a full schedule, Maria was still rebuilding her game, Vika and Aga were not the players they are now, the tour was very different when Caroline was on top and she was one of a very small handful of players that was consistently good. Even when she was number one Caroline never had a dominant game that was capable of beating the very best players.

Her best chance may have been at the 2011 U.S. Open. Had she defeated Serena she would have faced Stosur in the final. Sam is a player that Caroline has had some tough matches against but maybe the fact that it was a slam final would have made a difference? Sam played great against Serena but Caroline has a very different game so it would have been a completely different match.

[goldenlox]

Originally Posted by Protoss

No, Caro would have had to beat one or more of Serena, Vika, Sharapova, or Aga to win a slam and I don't think a defensive style would have gotten the win or wins.

I dont think it takes some incredible tennis to win a major. Players like Schiavone & Li almost never win any tournament, and they won majors.
But Caroline, as the last 18 months show, is probably not as mentally tough as we thought. And I changed my opinion on this.
I dont think she would have won a major, because I dont see the fight in her game any more. And that part of the game, mental, you need that. When Fran got to a slam final, she played one of her best matches.
Caroline is showing for a long time now, going back to Cibulkova at Wimbledon and 18 months after, that she is mentally fragile. And we saw that when she had match point vs Li.
Now its all the time. She seems to need everything to go right to make a run at any tournament

[Saraya00000]

So nervous, can´t wait....

[Protoss]

Originally Posted by goldenlox

I've said all along I dont think she has the burning desire to be a champion now.
I could see that a year ago when she lost #1 at the AO. I thought she would want to get #1 back at Doha & Dubai. Instead she spent the week with Rory then lost her 1st match vs Safarova. Then she had a chance to get revenge vs Goerges and lost that. Then went to where she had won her biggest title the year before, IW, and was blown off the court by Ivanovic.

She doesnt care enough this past year, so let her go have some fun, and maybe eventually she will want to try to get back to the top 3 or 4.
But losing up a set to Pervak is a sign she wasnt ready for this year. Its her career, if she wants to go have fun, there's nothing anyone else can do, but hope she oneday gets the mental determination back to fight for her career.
Now, let her go have fun. She's not a title contender here anyway. Its just a question of what round she loses. Vika, Serena back to back is a tough draw.
I'd like to see her as a contender at the US Open, but she needs the burning desire to fight for every point, which is extremely difficult, and she once was like that. Maybe she will rediscover that fire before its all over.

I don't know if I wanna be a fan of someone with that kind of attitude.

[marineblue]

Originally Posted by Saraya00000

So nervous, can´t wait....

Me too! I think a lot of (not only Caro's) fans are waiting to see this match.

[marineblue]

Originally Posted by goldenlox

I dont think it takes some incredible tennis to win a major. Players like Schiavone & Li almost never win any tournament, and they won majors.
But Caroline, as the last 18 months show, is probably not as mentally tough as we thought. And I changed my opinion on this.
I dont think she would have won a major, because I dont see the fight in her game any more. And that part of the game, mental, you need that. When Fran got to a slam final, she played one of her best matches.
Caroline is showing for a long time now, going back to Cibulkova at Wimbledon and 18 months after, that she is mentally fragile. And we saw that when she had match point vs Li.
Now its all the time. She seems to need everything to go right to make a run at any tournament

I think that you are forgetting that she was under a lot more pressure of expectations than the current no.1 for example. It's easier to play great when nobody is talking about every step you take and tries to raise doubts about you. Had Na, Schiavone face similar negativity as Caro I seriously doubt they'd be performing as well.
Now Caro is no longer in the spotlight and expectations put on her are no longer as intense so can play more freely.

[goldenlox]

Originally Posted by marineblue

I think that you are forgetting that she was under a lot more pressure of expectations than the current no.1 for example. It's easier to play great when nobody is talking about every step you take and tries to raise doubts about you. Had Na, Schiavone face similar negativity as Caro I seriously doubt they'd be performing as well.
Now Caro is no longer in the spotlight and expectations put on her are no longer as intense so can play more freely.

Both Fran & Li never got near #1, won majors late in their careers. Far from great players.
Caroline started her career with a slam final, then got to #1 the next year. People thought she might be the next great player. At least the early leader of the next generation. Of course that brings pressure.
But that seems so long ago. I think now she's trying to save her career. Not be a big name who loses early most tournaments.
Pressure should not be a problem. Playing well and with consistency looks like a big problem

[goldenlox]

Originally Posted by Protoss

I don't know if I wanna be a fan of someone with that kind of attitude.

This is Caroline's quote from today's NYTimes: Sometimes last year I was just taking too many chances, unnecessary chances, and losing some important balls and making stupid mistakes.

Thats true. She didnt try her best to win. It was almost like an experiment. She was very reckless, and thats not her game when she was winning.
Why did she do that? I dont know. But its easier to lose early than fight all match all week.
But she still isnt winning this year, so i wonder how much permanent damage she did to her game and her mental game

[Protoss]

Awful draw for Caro. Just getting to the 3rd round would be great now.

Good luck Caro.

[marineblue]

Originally Posted by goldenlox

This is Caroline's quote from today's NYTimes: Sometimes last year I was just taking too many chances, unnecessary chances, and losing some important balls and making stupid mistakes.

Thats true. She didnt try her best to win. It was almost like an experiment. She was very reckless, and thats not her game when she was winning.
Why did she do that? I dont know. But its easier to lose early than fight all match all week.
But she still isnt winning this year, so i wonder how much permanent damage she did to her game and her mental game

Not almost, it was an experiment. I think someone from her team must have convinced her to try all the 'good advice' that some of the so-called experts were parroting over and over again. I guess she was probably told that the best players are those who take risks and play a certain way (even if it doesn't work )because that's how tennis should be played.
There were many ideas like this promoted by the big names like Hingis, Navra etc. All those things they were saying were probably tried and tested because both Sanchez and TJ expressed very similar opinions about Caro's playing style.

[goldenlox]

Originally Posted by marineblue

Not almost, it was an experiment. I think someone from her team must have convinced her to try all the 'good advice' that some of the so-called experts were parroting over and over again. I guess she was probably told that the best players are those who take risks and play a certain way (even if it doesn't work )because that's how tennis should be played.
There were many ideas like this promoted by the big names like Hingis, Navra etc. All those things they were saying were probably tried and tested because both Sanchez and TJ expressed very similar opinions about Caro's playing style.

It doesnt matter what was going on. It matters from now forward. And she didnt start this year well.
If she loses this match, I hope she goes to Abu Dhabi, clears her head, and really gives it full effort the rest of the year.