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Old Apr 6th, 2013, 12:49 PM   #1741
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by ozza View Post
Is Caro really a contender at any big premiers right now (P5 and above)? It doesn't seem to matter, clay or hard court, she's not talked about winning any of them. History suggests she is even more vulnerable to lower ranked players on clay (though that seems hard to be possible right now).

The thing that I find worrying, you say this is a reality check. How many more reality checks does she need? If she can't see the reality now, what is it going to take?
I said earlier that losing to Vinci and McHale on hardcourts in August, 2011 should have been all the wake up she needed. Surely dropping out of the top five and, briefly, the top ten also served the same purpose. That's why I think that dropping out of the top ten for an extended period is pretty much the last wake up call. Definitely, she should be aware that her career as a top player is very much in danger now but if dropping out of the top ten doesn't make her realise that she really needs to focus on her tennis then I don't believe that anything will.
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Old Apr 6th, 2013, 01:19 PM   #1742
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

I said reality check, because there was some hope when she said she was motivated again. But if losing to Muguruza & Voegele at tournaments she has played very well at, if this is being motivated. Then there's a lot more lacking.
Definately everyone on her team is not getting it done, because there is no improvement, and a lot of mental issues. She was up 3-1 in the 3rd and lost 5 games in a row to Voegele, when she had a chance at a Premier SF. That is like a scream for help.
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Old Apr 6th, 2013, 01:44 PM   #1743
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
That is like a scream for help.
12 step program.

First, you need to hit rock bottom ... (are we even there yet? .. 'she just went for it and everything went in' .. doesn't sound like rock bottom to me).

Then 1st step is acknowledge there is a problem ... We're not talking crying your eyes out to Matt Cronin, but making changing to set-up, team, style, whatever.

Right now, it's doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different outcome. (Einstein's definition of insanity).

Piotr of course doesn't need to leave the team. Everything tells us, he is good for her. He's also turned matches around many many times. But if APDP isn't working out/helping .. surely Caro/Piotr can see the need for external technical help.

If she cannot see, golf WAGging isn't helping her tennis career .. Well, then she is beyond, where she can be helped. It has to come from her and an acknowledgement, being a golf WAG is not enough for having a tennis career.

If she's happy being top 20'ish and a golf WAG, that's fine. And .. maybe that's where we're heading. It would just be nice to know explicitly, so we can all adjust our expectations accordingly.

As it is now, we're trying to read tea leaves and judge comments. 'I am motivated again' .. Fine, but then runs off to watch golf at the first opportunity? Is that being motivated? ... Action ... words ...
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Old Apr 6th, 2013, 01:44 PM   #1744
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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I said reality check, because there was some hope when she said she was motivated again. But if losing to Muguruza & Voegele at tournaments she has played very well at, if this is being motivated. Then there's a lot more lacking.
Definately everyone on her team is not getting it done, because there is no improvement, and a lot of mental issues. She was up 3-1 in the 3rd and lost 5 games in a row to Voegele, when she had a chance at a Premier SF. That is like a scream for help.
You just have to wonder what is going through her and her teams mind. Is she really believing this my opponent was too good today line she is always feeding, because there doesn't seem to be any reaction to the losses. It's just I hope next week will by my week, nothing seems to change, but if there is no action next week will never be her week.

You have to think that it's impossible that Caro, Piotr, APDP are oblivious to her problems, but they don't seem to be able to do anything to sort out the issues between them. Caro has stopped dropping, but now just as worrying she is just going sideways, there is no progress upwards. Does she really not want better? What does she herself achieving in the future? Or is she simply happy with what she has already achieved.

While I see DownInAHole's point, it's hard to know the truth. But really if her being the top 10 is the last thing she is hanging on to, then that in itself concerning. She's unlikely to just be bombing out of the top 50 anytime soon for that sort of wake up call, it's a lot more likely she would just gradually fall down the rankings. And that is the problem I have with that theory, first she would have to drop out of the top 10, then she's got to stay there for an extended period, then we've got to see if that motivates her to be better. The problem is by the time all that happens, you are 18 months-2 years down the line, and the chances of ever getting back then are pretty much zero.
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Old Apr 6th, 2013, 01:50 PM   #1745
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

I was annoyed for about 10 minutes, but whatever. I kind of don't care anymore.
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Old Apr 6th, 2013, 01:58 PM   #1746
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by TennisFan66 View Post
12 step program.

First, you need to hit rock bottom ... (are we even there yet? .. 'she just went for it and everything went in' .. doesn't sound like rock bottom to me).

Then 1st step is acknowledge there is a problem ... We're not talking crying your eyes out to Matt Cronin, but making changing to set-up, team, style, whatever.

Right now, it's doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different outcome. (Einstein's definition of insanity).

Piotr of course doesn't need to leave the team. Everything tells us, he is good for her. He's also turned matches around many many times. But if APDP isn't working out/helping .. surely Caro/Piotr can see the need for external technical help.

If she cannot see, golf WAGging isn't helping her tennis career .. Well, then she is beyond, where she can be helped. It has to come from her and an acknowledgement, being a golf WAG is not enough for having a tennis career.

If she's happy being top 20'ish and a golf WAG, that's fine. And .. maybe that's where we're heading. It would just be nice to know explicitly, so we can all adjust our expectations accordingly.

As it is now, we're trying to read tea leaves and judge comments. 'I am motivated again' .. Fine, but then runs off to watch golf at the first opportunity? Is that being motivated? ... Action ... words ...

It Time for Piotr too go He Haven't been doing nothing to her game or turning matches around in a long time He end her as much as he could and brought her too much success but it time for Piotr too step down and let someone else take her too the next level. I prefer the APDP too stay until she find a decent coach
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Old Apr 6th, 2013, 02:00 PM   #1747
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by DownInAHole View Post
I said earlier that losing to Vinci and McHale on hardcourts in August, 2011 should have been all the wake up she needed. Surely dropping out of the top five and, briefly, the top ten also served the same purpose. That's why I think that dropping out of the top ten for an extended period is pretty much the last wake up call. Definitely, she should be aware that her career as a top player is very much in danger now but if dropping out of the top ten doesn't make her realise that she really needs to focus on her tennis then I don't believe that anything will.
I think those previous reality checks were at least somewhat effective though. After those losses to Vinci and McHale in Toronto and Cincy in 2011, she more or less got her act together in New Haven and the US Open. After losing to Begu in the 1st round of the US Open last year and falling out of the top 10, she had a pretty good finish to the year to end up back in the top 10.

Caro has sometimes struck me as a minimalist on the court in the sense that she'll do the miminimum amount needed to get the win. For example, if her opponent sprays tons of unforced errors, she'll tend to just to keep the ball in play, or if her opponent is a weak returner, she'll just get her serve in.
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Old Apr 6th, 2013, 02:19 PM   #1748
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by TennisFan66 View Post
12 step program.

First, you need to hit rock bottom ... (are we even there yet? .. 'she just went for it and everything went in' .. doesn't sound like rock bottom to me).
....

If she's happy being top 20'ish and a golf WAG, that's fine. And .. maybe that's where we're heading. It would just be nice to know explicitly, so we can all adjust our expectations accordingly.

As it is now, we're trying to read tea leaves and judge comments. 'I am motivated again' .. Fine, but then runs off to watch golf at the first opportunity? Is that being motivated? ... Action ... words ...
Because she can lose to Muguruza & Voegele, and then go off to the Masters and be treated like a VIP, there is no bottom. Its like Federer's wife, who was a WTA player.
At The Masters, they dont care that she just lost to Muguruza and Voegele. She's dating the Worlds #2! Thats what matters to golf people.

Caroline has to care that she lost to Muguruza & Voegele, and that golf will be there the next 100 years. The golf people dont give a sh!t what she's doing in tennis
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Old Apr 6th, 2013, 02:20 PM   #1749
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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It Time for Piotr too go
" I'll stay with my father until I retire " quote Caroline Wozniacki.
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Old Apr 6th, 2013, 02:29 PM   #1750
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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I would really like to see her finally take a strong decision about her tennis and career, not the very timid attempts she's "tried" over the time.
I know it's not "her", it's clear to anyone with any hint of psychology that she's the kind of defensive personality, the kind that never leaves the safe road, the one that doesn't like changes and doesn't pursue those...but at this point she needs to do something big to change
Yep. Because it's pretty clear at this point that the safe road is not the safe road at all.
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Old Apr 6th, 2013, 02:37 PM   #1751
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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" I'll stay with my father until I retire " quote Caroline Wozniacki.
I hope he won't stay with her ( as her coach ) until she retires!
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Old Apr 6th, 2013, 02:50 PM   #1752
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by ozza View Post

While I see DownInAHole's point, it's hard to know the truth. But really if her being the top 10 is the last thing she is hanging on to, then that in itself concerning. She's unlikely to just be bombing out of the top 50 anytime soon for that sort of wake up call, it's a lot more likely she would just gradually fall down the rankings. And that is the problem I have with that theory, first she would have to drop out of the top 10, then she's got to stay there for an extended period, then we've got to see if that motivates her to be better. The problem is by the time all that happens, you are 18 months-2 years down the line, and the chances of ever getting back then are pretty much zero.
If her career would ever take a nosedive to the degree of a Ivanovic or Jankovic at their worst I think she will just retire. Living the good life with Rory would just be too tempting to fight back. Besides, even if I'm wrong such a drop in status would only be a waste of valuable time. Even if starting from today she would be fully focussed and motivated again it would still take considerable time to build herself back up to where she was, or to at least how effective she can be at this point considering the opposition. She seems to think - even we sometimes think that she has all the time in the world because she's only 22. She hasn't. While Caroline is busy having all the time in the world her contemporaries Vika and Aga are winning titles left and right, Kvitova already has a Wimbledon and YEC title under her belt and youngsters are making up ground on Caro as we speak. Caroline doesn't have time to take it easy, it's five minutes before twelve, it's urgent, she needs to act NOW, it's now or never.
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Old Apr 6th, 2013, 03:02 PM   #1753
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by TennisFan66 View Post
" I'll stay with my father until I retire " quote Caroline Wozniacki.
Not sure where you got that quote from but after her first win in Charleston this year she said:

Quote:
Yeah, obviously it's worked pretty well. I have done pretty well in my career so far and, you know, I have a very close relationship with my dad and, you know, he has coached me since I started playing. So I like it this way. And I am pretty sure that this is how it's going to be
until I finish playing because I feel it's the way I can, you know, get the most out of my tennis.
I take her use of the words "pretty sure" to mean that the door is at least a tiny bit open regarding the possibility of Piotr not being her coach. Even if she did say she was 100% certain that he was going to remain her coach that does not mean that she can not change her mind.
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Old Apr 6th, 2013, 03:07 PM   #1754
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Not sure where you got that quote from
So there was a 'pretty sure' in there. Well, if you wanna hang your hat on that, who am I to prevent you from doing so. To me, the meaning is clear.
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Old Apr 6th, 2013, 03:29 PM   #1755
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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If her career would ever take a nosedive to the degree of a Ivanovic or Jankovic at their worst I think she will just retire. Living the good life with Rory would just be too tempting to fight back. Besides, even if I'm wrong such a drop in status would only be a waste of valuable time. Even if starting from today she would be fully focussed and motivated again it would still take considerable time to build herself back up to where she was, or to at least how effective she can be at this point considering the opposition. She seems to think - even we sometimes think that she has all the time in the world because she's only 22. She hasn't. While Caroline is busy having all the time in the world her contemporaries Vika and Aga are winning titles left and right, Kvitova already has a Wimbledon and YEC title under her belt and youngsters are making up ground on Caro as we speak. Caroline doesn't have time to take it easy, it's five minutes before twelve, it's urgent, she needs to act NOW, it's now or never.
You are probably right if she went the way Ivanovic did. Jankovic didn't actually bomb as bad as people seem to remember she did. There wasn't really a nosedive, after becoming world number 1 in 2008, she didn't actually drop out of the top 10 until mid-2011, she then dropped out of the top 20 in August last year, and has now re-entered it. In fact Wozniacki's path right now looks very similar to Jankovic's, just a gradual drift downwards.

The rest is pretty much how I believe, there is an apparent lack of urgency, there is certainly a lack of direction. Caro can't really afford this, the time is ticking on her ever competing at the top end of womens tennis again, we may even look back in a few years and say the time had already run out (hindsight is a wonderful thing).
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