[pierce85]

Unfortunately , this thing doesn't only happen in India. I have a friend who recently travelled with her boyfriend to Egypt and while they were at the market (bear in mind that she was dressed conservatively) a group of 10 men circled her and started groping and tried to rape her, if it wasn't for a local shop-keeper who offered her refuge who knows what would have happened.

[Ashi]

I dedicate this song to 'Damini' (what a name to choose, the film still leaves me hollow), 'Amanat', 'Nirbhaya' as the Indian media seems to be calling her.

RIP.
I wish each child learns this song in school. Maybe it can permeate our subconscious as a growing nation.

[gentenaire]

Originally Posted by Ashi

That article was about a woman's perspective from Delhi. I'm lived my whole life in Mumbai and can confidently say I can travel late nights here and use public transport.
I can't comment on other cities because I've not lived anywhere else for an extended period of time.

From what I read, it does seem to be mainly a problem in Delhi and less so in other cities. The chances of being harassed would certainly be higher if I moved to Brussels, compared to where I live now.
My point is, this shouldn't be treated as a 'general' problem, as if it's the same everywhere. It isn't. There are reasons why it happens more often in one place than another and these causes need to be dealt with.

[pierce85]

Originally Posted by Ashi

Woah! Someone hold up a mirror.
These are reactions from our political class.

courtsey:twitter

Does this disgusting bitch (Annita Shuka or whatever) call herself a scientist?

[tennisbum79]

Originally Posted by pierce85

Unfortunately, this thing doesn't happen only in India. I have a friend who recently travelled with her boyfriend in Egypt and while they were at the market (bear in mind that she was dressed conservatively) a group of 10 men circled her and started groping and tried to rape herm, if it wasn't for a local shop-keeper who offered her refuge who knows what would have happened.

I am not susprised.
During the Arab Surpring in Egypt, a mob of Egytian men sexually mosted a female CBS correspondent who was covering the demonstration.

With that said, other countries doing the same should not be an excuse for another raping their women.
I am not suggesting that is what your post is implying, but other posters have already used an argument like this to downplay this incident.
The "every body does it defense" has never been a strong argument.

[Ashi]

Originally Posted by Start da Game

why should a woman in india need to go out at night alone unless in exceptional circumstances? no indian family encourages it as far as i know......that is the cultural difference i was talking about......

IMO there's no need to be defensive here.

What if there is an emergeny or she has to go to the hospital? What if she doesn't have a brother, father or husband?

[tennisbum79]

Originally Posted by Ashi

I dedicate this song to 'Damini' (what a name to choose, the film still leaves me hollow), 'Amanat', 'Nirbhaya' as the Indian media seems to be calling her.

RIP.
I wish each child learns this song in school. Maybe it can permeate our subconscious as a growing nation.

Not withstanding the meaning, it is a beautiful song.

By the solemn reaction written all over the audience faces, it must be profund and sad.

Can you explain what it is about?
And what does 'Damini' mean. You objected to the name

[Ashi]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damini_%E2%80%93_Lightning

Shekhar Gupta (Rishi Kapoor), a rich businessman, falls in love at first sight with Damini (Meenakshi Sheshadri). They get married and Damini moves into his palatial bungalow. One day, she witnesses Shekhar's younger brother, Rakesh, molesting the maid-servant and rushes to tell Shekhar. Shekhar rushes over to prevent the sexual assault but is too late. The Gupta family conspire to cover up this shameful incident. But Damini decides to inform the police. The matter is taken up in court, and Damini is asked to testify. Damini is portrayed as a mentally unstable person and confined in a mental institution for two weeks by a judicial order. Unable to bear the mental torture in the institution, she escapes and runs into a down-and-out alcoholic lawyer, Govind (Sunny Deol), who has the rape case re-opened. The maid-servant dies in hospital, and the police write her death off as a suicide. But Govind is able to prove otherwise. It is up to Damini, Govind and Shekhar to provide justice to the victimized girl.

[*JR*]

A few reactions to some comments ITT:

Mumbai (formerly Bombay) is presumably very Westernized, yet Delhi is the "rape capital" of India. The reference in a cartoon Ashi posted to "dented and painted" is to a comment the (ceremonial) President's son made about the demonstrators. (And the pathetic Home Minister I referred to ITT compared them to Maoists).

Women are treated like crap in many countries, quite so in India. For example, if a Hindu woman there marries a man from the "wrong" caste* her own family may murder her in a so-called "honour killing". And girl babies are (or were, if its changed) routinely aborted for no other reason than their gender, though its illegal to use amniocentesis for that.

* The caste system itself was outlawed in I think 1965, though "somebody apparently forgot to tell the public". The Dalits are/were still widely called (and treated as) Untouchables for decades after that, for example. (If the extreme Hindu BJP opposition trries to use this case politically, I hope the caste system issue is cited to check them).

I can't see a death penalty being handed down here (or being upheld on appeal if it is) as the murder was seemingly not premeditated. I'd be surprised if these guys are convicted of anything more than manslaughter, though they might well be killed in jail.

Given the severity of the victim's injuries, requiring the surgical removal of her intestines I wonder if the iron bar was used not just to beat her (like the guy she was with) but to sexually violate her. Had she lived, she'd likely have been on IV feeding for the rest of her life.

[Ashi]

Here is the translation:
O ri Chiraiya
Nanhi si chidiya
Angna mein phir aaja re

O bird,
little bird,
come back again to the yard..

Andhiyara hai ghana aur lahoo se sana
Kirno ke tinke ambar se chun ke
Angna mein phir aaja re

The dark is deep and covered in blood..
pick the straws of sunrays from the sky,
and come back again to the yard..

Humne tujhpe hazaro sitam hain kiye
Humne tujhpe jahan bhar ke zulm kiye
Humne socha nahi
Tu jo ud jayegi
Ye zameen tere bin sooni reh jayegi
Kiske dum pe sajega mera angna

We have done injustice against you a thousand times,
We have given you tortures of the world..
we didn't think-
if you fly away,
this earth will remain deserted without you..
with whose presence shall my yard be adorned..

O Ri Chiraiya, Meri Chiraiya
Angna mein phir aaja re

Tere pankho mein saare sitare jadooN
Teri chunar dhanak satrangi bunooN
Tere kajal mein main kaali raina bharooN
Teri mehandi mein main kachchi dhoop malooN
Tere naino sajaa doon naya sapna

I'll embed all the stars in your wings,
I'll weave for you a rainbow colored scarf,
I'll fill the dark night in your kohl,
I'll rub raw fragrance in your henna (adorned hands),
I'll give a new dream to your eyes..

O ri Chiraiya, Meri Chiraiya
Angna mein phir aaja re

[tennisbum79]

Originally Posted by Ashi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damini_%E2%80%93_Lightning

Shekhar Gupta (Rishi Kapoor), a rich businessman, falls in love at first sight with Damini (Meenakshi Sheshadri). They get married and Damini moves into his palatial bungalow. One day, she witnesses Shekhar's younger brother, Rakesh, molesting the maid-servant and rushes to tell Shekhar. Shekhar rushes over to prevent the sexual assault but is too late. The Gupta family conspire to cover up this shameful incident. But Damini decides to inform the police. The matter is taken up in court, and Damini is asked to testify. Damini is portrayed as a mentally unstable person and confined in a mental institution for two weeks by a judicial order. Unable to bear the mental torture in the institution, she escapes and runs into a down-and-out alcoholic lawyer, Govind (Sunny Deol), who has the rape case re-opened. The maid-servant dies in hospital, and the police write her death off as a suicide. But Govind is able to prove otherwise. It is up to Damini, Govind and Shekhar to provide justice to the victimized girl.

Thanks, touching story. Now I understand the audience reaction.
I know this is only a movie, but it also gives a window on how rape has been treated in India.

Again, thanks for sharing it.

[gentenaire]

Originally Posted by Start da Game

why should a woman in india need to go out at night alone unless in exceptional circumstances? .

For the same reason men go out at night alone.

You've just proven my point, India still has a long way to go as far as women's rights go if that's the general view.

[Ashi]

Originally Posted by *JR*

A few reactions to some comments ITT:

Mumbai (formerly Bombay) is presumably very Westernized, yet Delhi is the "rape capital" of India. The reference in a cartoon Ashi posted to "dented and painted" is to a comment the (ceremonial) President's son made about the demonstrators. (And the pathetic Home Minister I referred to ITT compared them to Maoists).

Women are treated like crap in many countries, quite so in India. For example, if a Hindu woman there marries a man from the "wrong" caste* her own family may murder her in a so-called "honour killing". And girl babies are (or were, if its changed) routinely aborted for no other reason than their gender, though its illegal to use amniocentesis for that.

* The caste system itself was outlawed in I think 1965, though "somebody apparently forgot to tell the public". The Dalits are/were still widely called (and treated as) Untouchables for decades after that, for example. (If the extreme Hindu BJP opposition trries to use this case politically, I hope the caste system issue is cited to check them).

I can't see a death penalty being handed down here (or being upheld on appeal if it is) as the murder was seemingly not premeditated. I'd be surprised if these guys are convicted of anything more than manslaughter, though they might well be killed in jail.

Given the severity of the victim's injuries, requiring the surgical removal of her intestines I wonder if the iron bar was used not just to beat her (like the guy she was with) but to sexually violate her. Had she lived, she'd likely have been on IV feeding for the rest of her life.

Please don't convolute this thread with Honor Killings, Female Infanticide & Casteism. Those issues are far more complex and need a separate discussion without moving off topic.
The issue here is societal norms, fear psycosis, insensitivity by the police, low conviction rate etc

[tennisbum79]

Originally Posted by Ashi

Here is the translation:
O ri Chiraiya
Nanhi si chidiya
Angna mein phir aaja re

O bird,
little bird,
come back again to the yard..

Andhiyara hai ghana aur lahoo se sana
Kirno ke tinke ambar se chun ke
Angna mein phir aaja re

The dark is deep and covered in blood..
pick the straws of sunrays from the sky,
and come back again to the yard..

Humne tujhpe hazaro sitam hain kiye
Humne tujhpe jahan bhar ke zulm kiye
Humne socha nahi
Tu jo ud jayegi
Ye zameen tere bin sooni reh jayegi
Kiske dum pe sajega mera angna

We have done injustice against you a thousand times,
We have given you tortures of the world..
we didn't think-
if you fly away,
this earth will remain deserted without you..
with whose presence shall my yard be adorned..

O Ri Chiraiya, Meri Chiraiya
Angna mein phir aaja re

Tere pankho mein saare sitare jadooN
Teri chunar dhanak satrangi bunooN
Tere kajal mein main kaali raina bharooN
Teri mehandi mein main kachchi dhoop malooN
Tere naino sajaa doon naya sapna

I'll embed all the stars in your wings,
I'll weave for you a rainbow colored scarf,
I'll fill the dark night in your kohl,
I'll rub raw fragrance in your henna (adorned hands),
I'll give a new dream to your eyes..

O ri Chiraiya, Meri Chiraiya
Angna mein phir aaja re

A theme/sense of collective guilt runs through the lyrics.

[Start da Game]

Originally Posted by gentenaire

For the same reason men go out at night alone.

You've just proven my point, India still has a long way to go as far as women's rights go if that's the general view.

your point never existed in the first place......what seems to be "rights" to you is not a cultural fit here......