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Old Jan 7th, 2013, 02:13 AM   #241
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Re: Ohio Rape: High School Students Joke About Rape In Leaked Video !

Quote:
Originally Posted by *JR* View Post
Maybe we're making some progress here, because you seem to finally acknowledge that the US posters DO bash American culture where warranted, rather than hide behind "oh, this or that country is worse, so everybody STFU". In terms of women going out alone @ night, poor Jyoti Singh Pandev was with a man, and coming home @ "reasonable hour".

Ms. Pandev was also apparently part-Sikh from her middle name. (Her father Badri Singh Pandey I guess had a Sikh mother, making Jyoti 1/4 Sikh). Anyhow, the % doesn't matter. Are ethnic minorities subject to "the tyranny of the majority"? For example, should non-Muslim women have to wear headscarves in predominantly Islamic areas?
Singh is not a exclusive Sikh name. Singh means lion or lionhearted. Plenty of Hindus have the same middle name/surname. Though Sikhs are religiously mandated to have the Singh or Kaur suffixes for men or women. There is no Hindu equivalent name for Kaur though.
Pandey is a Hindu Brahmin surname. She is someone at the top of the caste hierarchy so stop looking for caste-ism/religious discrimination in this rape case.
If anything given the dynamics of this case it is likely that the perpetrators are lower castes. Quite similar to black on white crime in the US for example.

And as far as I know non Muslims are mandated to wear headscarves in Islamic countries including the Swiss female ambassador to Iran.
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Old Jan 7th, 2013, 04:00 AM   #242
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Re: Ohio Rape: High School Students Joke About Rape In Leaked Video !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat View Post
.
She is someone at the top of the caste hierarchy so stop looking for caste-ism/religious discrimination in this rape case.
If anything given the dynamics of this case it is likely that the perpetrators are lower castes
. Quite similar to black on white crime in the US for example.
.
You prejudice is showing and you don't even realize it. In the first sentence, you have no doubt it was not "caste-ism/religious discrimination in this rape case"
In the second sentence, you have no trouble to state the the perpetrators are lower castes.


I have seen this over and over again. Since lower castes are less likely to participate these debate on internet forums, this notion goes unchallenged.

And to finish with a bang, you add reference to "black on white crime in the US for example. "



BTW, is this a consensus among Indians. That lower caste commit crime against upper caste?
You just talked about it as a matter of fact, as something widely accepted.
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Old Jan 7th, 2013, 04:18 AM   #243
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Re: Ohio Rape: High School Students Joke About Rape In Leaked Video !

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Originally Posted by tennisbum79 View Post
You prejudice is showing and you don't even realize it. In the first sentence, you have no doubt it was not "caste-ism/religious discrimination in this rape case"
In the second sentence, you have no trouble to state the the perpetrators are lower castes.



I have seen this over and over again. Since lower castes are less likely to participate these debate on internet forums, this notion goes unchallenged.

And to finish with a bang, you add reference to "black on white crime in the US for example. "



BTW, is this a consensus among Indians. That lower caste commit crime against upper caste?
You just talked about it as a matter of fact, as something widely accepted.
jr wondered whether Jyoti's possible religiously downtrodden status had any relevance here. expat pointed out that she actually belongs to the highest caste and the rapists belong the lowest caste. he didn't state a contradiction.

maybe try understanding what a poster is saying before calling him prejudiced. (won't touch the irony in that)
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Old Jan 7th, 2013, 04:29 AM   #244
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Re: Ohio Rape: High School Students Joke About Rape In Leaked Video !

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Originally Posted by wild.river View Post
jr wondered whether Jyoti's possible religiously downtrodden status had any relevance here. expat pointed out that she actually belongs to the highest caste and the rapists belong the lowest caste. he didn't state a contradiction.

maybe try understanding what a poster is saying before calling him prejudiced. (won't touch the irony in that)
I object to his suggestion that it is likely it was lowest caste that commit crime, and yes comparison to black on white crime exacerbate the situation for me, is also insulting.

BTW, this is not the first time I have noticed that lower caste are easily blamed for crime.

I don't have patience for unfairness and injustice.
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Old Jan 7th, 2013, 05:02 AM   #245
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Re: Ohio Rape: High School Students Joke About Rape In Leaked Video !

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Originally Posted by tennisbum79 View Post
You prejudice is showing and you don't even realize it. In the first sentence, you have no doubt it was not "caste-ism/religious discrimination in this rape case"
In the second sentence, you have no trouble to state the the perpetrators are lower castes.


I have seen this over and over again. Since lower castes are less likely to participate these debate on internet forums, this notion goes unchallenged.

And to finish with a bang, you add reference to "black on white crime in the US for example. "


See the post I replied to. The poster is trying to make it as if it is a hate crime against minority Sikhs. I said that the victim is a Hindu Brahmin not half or quarter Sikh.
If you look at the names of the perpetrators some of them are lower caste.
However this is a rape case. Not a caste discrimination case.
To best of my knowledge this is the caste/religious denomination of the criminals.
Ram Singh -- lower caste (OBC) (though Singh is also a Sikh surname it is never used in conjunction with Ram, a Hindu god)
Mukesh Singh -- lower caste (OBC) ( brother of the above accused and also same caste. Mukesh is also a Hindu name)
Vinay Sharma -- upper caste (Brahmin highest in the caste system)
Muhammad Afroz -- Muslim ( lead accused and underaged, will be sentenced in juvenile court)
Akshay Thakur -- upper caste (Rajput high in the hierachy)
Pawan Gupta -- upper caste (Bania high in the hierarchy)



I am currently in Delhi and no one in India is treating this as a caste discrimination/religious discrimination case.
The black on white crime reference is to make it relevant to *JR* (TF's race expert).
Quote:
BTW, is this a consensus among Indians. That lower caste commit crime against upper caste?
You just talked about it as a matter of fact, as something widely accepted.
The consensus is that lower castes are victims of upper caste crime. In rural areas we haven't heard much of the reverse situation. If a mugging happens in the US do you automatically treat as a hate crime? That's the same way this case is being treated in India. Its not being treated as a caste/religious issue. Its being treated as a rape.
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Old Jan 7th, 2013, 05:06 AM   #246
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Re: Ohio Rape: High School Students Joke About Rape In Leaked Video !

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Originally Posted by tennisbum79 View Post
I object to his suggestion that it is likely it was lowest caste that commit crime, and yes comparison to black on white crime exacerbate the situation for me, is also insulting.

BTW, this is not the first time I have noticed that lower caste are easily blamed for crime.

I don't have patience for unfairness and injustice.
In India lower castes are not stereotyped as criminals. That is stereotyped of Muslims.

And I will be the first person to acknowledge that I am prejudiced. Everyone is prejudiced unlike liberal thinking who believe that its only whites.
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Old Jan 7th, 2013, 06:09 AM   #247
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Re: Ohio Rape: High School Students Joke About Rape In Leaked Video !

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Originally Posted by tennisbum79 View Post
You are condescending, disrespectful to you fellow Indian citizens.


Do you realize using the word "tolerate" , "pampered" to refer to the presence other Indians who are different from shows contempt for them.
Not only you seem to be treating them as "guests", "the other", but you don't view them as equal.

And this sentiment has permeated many of your posts.


You claim you defend India, but you are embarrassing Indians by your neanderthal way o f thinking.


As posters after posters have shown, it is tedious to engage you.


BTW, having a vigorous debate is not the same as bashing.
We Americans are used to it, and never object to non-Americans joining in.


In fact, some of us are curious to know how certain aspect of the American politics is perceive elsewhere.; so we welcome participation from anywhere w/o checking passport at the door or asking them to sign confidentiality agreement that they will NOT be critical of the USA.
i fully stand by the words "tolerate" and "pampered" and everyone knows that they were directed at the the idiotic muslim groups......majority of urban indian muslims are the biggest crybabies on earth and often piss off every other religion in the country with their never ending complaining, bitching and crying attitude......people are tired of their nonsense......

we donated entire pakistan to their religion when they cried 70 years ago and asked for separation......we did everything a country could do to the minorities.......yet they behave as if they are treated unequally......

i don't even feel like explaining things to you because you just don't get it......

now don't give me all the hypocritical secular bullshit written in your laws......everybody knows how non-european settlers are treated in usa......we treat minorities 100 times better than that and give them absolutely equal rights, both in theory and practice......

india will be the land of hindus whether anybody likes it or not......if americans take pride in expressing their western greatness and poke their noses in all world issues just for roughly 500 years of their history and your brit pals for roughly 1500 years of history, we are speaking about 30,000 years of history here......

we are just asking not to comment on our country not knowing much about it......
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Old Jan 7th, 2013, 06:28 AM   #248
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Re: Ohio Rape: High School Students Joke About Rape In Leaked Video !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat View Post
See the post I replied to. The poster is trying to make it as if it is a hate crime against minority Sikhs. I said that the victim is a Hindu Brahmin not half or quarter Sikh.
If you look at the names of the perpetrators some of them are lower caste.
However this is a rape case. Not a caste discrimination case.
To best of my knowledge this is the caste/religious denomination of the criminals.
Ram Singh -- lower caste (OBC) (though Singh is also a Sikh surname it is never used in conjunction with Ram, a Hindu god)
Mukesh Singh -- lower caste (OBC) ( brother of the above accused and also same caste. Mukesh is also a Hindu name)
Vinay Sharma -- upper caste (Brahmin highest in the caste system)
Muhammad Afroz -- Muslim ( lead accused and underaged, will be sentenced in juvenile court)
Akshay Thakur -- upper caste (Rajput high in the hierachy)
Pawan Gupta -- upper caste (Bania high in the hierarchy)



I am currently in Delhi and no one in India is treating this as a caste discrimination/religious discrimination case.
The black on white crime reference is to make it relevant to *JR* (TF's race expert).


The consensus is that lower castes are victims of upper caste crime. In rural areas we haven't heard much of the reverse situation. If a mugging happens in the US do you automatically treat as a hate crime? That's the same way this case is being treated in India. Its not being treated as a caste/religious issue. Its being treated as a rape.
the real culprit who started all this and provoked others too is believed to be that minor bastard......it all started with that scumbag as told by the girl's friend......

i don't think she is a full brahmin though......singh is never part of a brahmin name......
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Old Jan 7th, 2013, 10:28 AM   #249
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

Rape cases occur in India at a higher rate because there is no conviction for rapes.
The same is in the case of murders, kidnappings, robberies. In general law and order is poor in India.
The police and law enforcers are deliberately castrated by the politicians led by the Gandhi family who have ruled for much of the time since India's independence. Only in cases where there is much outrage does the police even act. This is true for all crimes whether rapes, murders or robberies.
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Old Jan 7th, 2013, 12:14 PM   #250
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Re: Ohio Rape: High School Students Joke About Rape In Leaked Video !

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Originally Posted by Start da Game View Post
i fully stand by the words "tolerate" and "pampered" and everyone knows that they were directed at the the idiotic muslim groups......majority of urban indian muslims are the biggest crybabies on earth and often piss off every other religion in the country with their never ending complaining, bitching and crying attitude......people are tired of their nonsense......

we donated entire pakistan to their religion when they cried 70 years ago and asked for separation......we did everything a country could do to the minorities.......yet they behave as if they are treated unequally......

i don't even feel like explaining things to you because you just don't get it......

now don't give me all the hypocritical secular bullshit written in your laws......everybody knows how non-european settlers are treated in usa......we treat minorities 100 times better than that and give them absolutely equal rights, both in theory and practice......

india will be the land of hindus whether anybody likes it or not......if americans take pride in expressing their western greatness and poke their noses in all world issues just for roughly 500 years of their history and your brit pals for roughly 1500 years of history, we are speaking about 30,000 years of history here......

we are just asking not to comment on our country not knowing much about it......
You sound as if you are a member of the old Hindu Mahasabha/New RSS.
Please speak only for yourself. If you'd done your homework on partition you realise that not all Muslims were given a choice. Even if they wanted to stay, they were killed in cold blood.
The way you speak about partition is so incredibly insensitive to both Muslims and Hindus. Haven't we come anyway further in the last 70 years?!
The Muslims have their own uniform civil code. If you are so against mooching off the Hindus what about the reservations for the OBC'S/SC/ST's etc. They are Hindu's too. You'd have this argument ad nauseum.
Also why is the caste of the victim being dragged in this discussion?
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Old Jan 7th, 2013, 02:13 PM   #251
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Re: Ohio Rape: High School Students Joke About Rape In Leaked Video !

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You sound as if you are a member of the old Hindu Mahasabha/New RSS.
Please speak only for yourself. If you'd done your homework on partition you realise that not all Muslims were given a choice. Even if they wanted to stay, they were killed in cold blood.
The way you speak about partition is so incredibly insensitive to both Muslims and Hindus. Haven't we come anyway further in the last 70 years?!
The Muslims have their own uniform civil code. If you are so against mooching off the Hindus what about the reservations for the OBC'S/SC/ST's etc. They are Hindu's too. You'd have this argument ad nauseum.
Also why is the caste of the victim being dragged in this discussion?
the killings were done in return to the hindu killings during the pathetic nizam rule......that too because muslims were hard assed about surrendering their stupid kingdom and approve democracy......please do your own homework before asking me to do mine......

reservation is a different issue which is plaguing the country......where did you see me encouraging it? i am always against it......

the only solution to this mess was separating pakistan for muslims like they asked, which we agreed to and did.......we gave them a choice as well to stay in india or migrate to pakistan......which islamic country do you see tolerating other religions as much as we do? yet they cry and bitch about non-existent unequal rights......

just few days ago, a muthafucker talked about hinduism in a totally barbaric way to attract muslims to his party and yet he is not arrested in our country......that is india, tolerating the madness of minorities to the very brink......

people are fed up with their crybaby attitude......
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Old Jan 7th, 2013, 03:12 PM   #252
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Re: Ohio Rape: High School Students Joke About Rape In Leaked Video !

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the killings were done in return to the hindu killings during the pathetic nizam rule......that too because muslims were hard assed about surrendering their stupid kingdom and approve democracy......please do your own homework before asking me to do mine......

Yes an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Which Nizam are you talking about? Be specific. The Nizam of Hyderabad? because you use the word 'democracy' right after. Millions of Muslims were killed compared to Hindus/Indians defending that idiot's fallen princely state. So whose loss is more? Or are we still measuring?
If you'd gotten your chronological order correct you know which came first partition or the accession of the princely states?
reservation is a different issue which is plaguing the country......where did you see me encouraging it? i am always against it......
Yet you say the minorities are mooching off the Hindus. Upper caste Hindu supremacist are you?
the only solution to this mess was separating pakistan for muslims like they asked, which we agreed to and did.......we gave them a choice as well to stay in india or migrate to pakistan......which islamic country do you see tolerating other religions as much as we do? yet they cry and bitch about non-existent unequal rights......
Really a choice? That's why millions were killed vice versa.Why do we need to compare ourselves to other states? This is now Bharat not Hindustan. It is a secular country.
just few days ago, a muthafucker talked about hinduism in a totally barbaric way to attract muslims to his party and yet he is not arrested in our country......that is india, tolerating the madness of minorities to the very brink......
Yet you see MANY MUSLIMS calling that idiot out & whether he was arrested or not was more to do with him being a politician & less to do with him being a muslim. If that is the argument you go by where are the arrests of Varun Gandhi, Narendra Modi, Praveen Togadia etc etc for hate speech against the Muslims.
It goes both ways.

people are fed up with their crybaby attitude......
Speak for yourself.
This is a case in point as to why minorities still feel marginalised in India today.
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Old Jan 8th, 2013, 08:00 AM   #253
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

i was not just speaking about post 1950 killings but also the massacres during the nizam rule in the 19th and early 20th century......did you ever see any indian kingdom before killing muslims? the millions killed you speak about, they brought it upon themselves again with their stubborn attitude when the rest of the country was ready to unite......their idea was to turn india into another islamic country......

as for minorities mooching us, it needn't be in the form of reservations......the kind of mental unrest they bring in the society is far more venomous than reservations......

india being a secular country is only in theory......india is a heavily minority-pampered country in practice......nobody listens to the cries of 1000 hindus but our government is quick to react to a cry of one muslim acting victim......

the hate speeches were only because once again they brought it upon themselves with their constant bitching and revolts in their respective regions......people are really fed up already......

the speeches were in no way as barbaric as owaisi's who literally abused hindu gods in his speech......they often revolt unnecessarily and always try to stir troubles in the country......
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Old Jan 8th, 2013, 12:26 PM   #254
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

So you are anti-secular, anti-reservation, anti-minority and also condone hate speech.
Atleast you don't hide your prejudice, I'll give you that.

[The princely state of Hyderabad was not the only state unwilling to accede into the Indian Union, there were many others like Travancore(Hindu King) and case in point Kashmir( Hindu King again)] So your point about it seems moot.
Thankfully we had Vallabhai Patel, very rightfully called the Iron man of India who was successful in integrating the princely states.
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Last edited by Ashi : Jan 8th, 2013 at 12:38 PM.
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Old Jan 8th, 2013, 03:35 PM   #255
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

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Originally Posted by Start da Game View Post

india being a secular country is only in theory......india is a heavily minority-pampered country in practice......nobody listens to the cries of 1000 hindus but our government is quick to react to a cry of one muslim acting victim......
Except Indira Gandhi got offed by her Sikh bodyguards, ova the Golden Temple massacre http://sikhism.about.com/od/history/a/Golden_Temple.htm.

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