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Old Jan 2nd, 2013, 02:21 PM   #166
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Re: India gang rape victim dies

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Originally Posted by Start da Game View Post
just go away and look at your own motherland......don't bother about india......understanding india is beyond your comprehending abilities.......so just stop bullshitting about what measures need to be taken.......like i said, we don't take advises from people who are in far worse condition than us......
Why are you getting irritated? Let them table their perspective about India. If you've anything to back it up (or rebuttal) then do it properly but not for the sake of argument etc. This is what happening on our TV channels (who just cook crap in the name of debates, have no decency to talk, get personal, no patience, loud voices and what not). By doing this you are giving a chance to others.....
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Old Jan 2nd, 2013, 02:31 PM   #167
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Re: India gang rape victim dies

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Originally Posted by bulava View Post
Why are you getting irritated? Let them table their perspective about India. If you've anything to back it up (or rebuttal) then do it properly but not for the sake of argument etc. This is what happening on our TV channels (who just cook crap in the name of debates, have no decency to talk, get personal, no patience, loud voices and what not). By doing this you are giving a chance to others.....
i am just giving it back to the hypocrites with hidden agendas.......some people are always looking to pounce on india upon an opportunity......
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Old Jan 2nd, 2013, 02:33 PM   #168
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Re: India gang rape victim dies

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It's nothing to do with pointing fingers or my pride. I stated the global reality. Perhaps you should go to FBI website and check the stats or go to UN website and check on rapes committed in countries in terms of per-capita. Indian stats are not high (1.6 per 100,000) when compared to volume of cases in many developed nations. But still over 26,000 (2011) number here is completely unacceptable. Do you want me to quote the US numbers? (it's more than three times).

As an objective observer and active participant I *fund* to my capacity per year. Example, old parents NGOs (thrown out by their children) or children (less than 10 years) who are born with Heart defects (pending operations thousands per state) or campaign against Alcohol (this is company's #1 CSR goal) or child education or farmers who are committing suicides because they are broke/bankrupt and/or they can't afford to buy few sacks of seeds! It's one of the reasons why returned to India. There are many problems here in India, of course in many developed countries too. My new initiative for this year is helping a few parents to know what happened to their missing children. Did you know many thousands of girls per year in my state are vanishing? What's happening to them? No one really bothers or cares. Police can't do everything or be there for everyone any given point of time/place. This is IMPOSSIBLE. What could be done?

I get that. But they don't take any serious action on multiple levels. Mere changing rape laws won't do the job. I mentioned so many reasons in my post, there are many more such as economic disparity, psychological problems etc. There is NO silver bullet this case.

Trust me there are much bigger problems in India compared to this as I mentioned in my post. Example, during the last 20 days or so, almost 100 people dead in India due to harsh winter. What about them? How many years more they should die like pests?

These politicians won't do anything. They are busy protecting their skins/bastions/power/states. Most people are becoming self-centered and selfish or they just can't do anything (out of reach, money etc). They should be working on multiple-parameters in terms of short and long run.

IMO people should take initiatives (since Govts can't do much) at least to limit this problem or negating risk. They should get educated on rights/laws (possible for Urban), take precautions, take nothing for granted or be crazy taking risks, go to self-defense classes etc. Lawyers and NGOs should come forward to help the people. How many are there and how many could really afford to tackle this situation given the magnitude of the risk involved? I see very few doing such things on the ground.

Also, it's very important to realize that crimes can't be stopped as some demand like - these must be stopped. It's impossible be it murder, corruption, greed, rape etc because these are encoded deep in the human DNA. Many don't understand this angle. One could only work on the bad stats and strive to bring them to the lowest possible numbers closer to NULL. That's the right frame of thinking instead of harping on emotional or political crap played out on TV channels.
Superb post, and I certainly "harp on" how the poor are mistreated around the world, including in the US. Anyhow, neither tennisbum nor I would disagree with you that rape is a big problem in the US (and elsewhere).

This thread got derailed with a knee-jerk defensive reaction by Start da Game, with Ashi surprisingly seeming to second that reaction. I say surprising as Ashi has often shown herself 2B superbly intelligent, and could have written an eloquent balanced analysis, as you did here. Instead she defended SDG's insularity (with weak stuff like non-Indians seeing her ppl as a bunch of snake-charmers, etc) which I've never seen happen on this board.

I still think ppl like Ashi (or you) would make good members of the Lok Sabha, especially if (her) panning the idea ITT means she'd go there not giving a FF if she was re-elected or not. (Yes, the US Congress could use ppl who would rather lose than whore out, too). Anyhow, here's a Reuters article from yesterday that sheds some interesting light on things.

BTW (as Ashi used that irrelevant "but you PM'd me about this thread" dodge) I wish to note what I essentially said: that IF I raised the matter of sex-selection abortion, I expected "pro-choice absolutists" to jump on me.

Now its out there as A factor in India's "rape epidemic", including in major world media, so the PC types who act like any infringement on their sacrosanct word "choice" is verbotten can deal with the simple math: if any country skews the gender balance by misusing technologies like amniocentesis to facilitate backwards traditions like "only sons can provide for us", more young men will be rapists than would be otherwise.
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Old Jan 2nd, 2013, 05:14 PM   #169
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

^^

it is our problem, not yours.......you have your own problems to look at......first take care of them COMPLETELY, then only you qualify for offering suggestions to foreign countries......

now why i poked my nose in a topic like the US gun law is because it is seriously affecting my people as well.......that is all i am saying......

advise? yes, you are free to offer without touching the cultural aspects......

expressing the typical west supremacy(when it doesn't even exist in the first place) and trying to portray your country as one with no loopholes in relative terms? absolutely no......
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Old Jan 2nd, 2013, 06:03 PM   #170
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

look, why i got irked in this thread is because some people took it for granted that their ways of living would fit with any culture in the world and particularly indian culture......some even went as far mocking the indian traditions......

all that irks me, i find it very silly and arrogant at the same time......it could be because of the cultural history and the background i come from but i always believed in the adage(if there is one) "you are the best judge of yourself"......

all that evoked one poor and angry response from me granted but i couldn't help it......like ashi said, people need to get out of that stereotypical image they have for india.......

you should have seen how many people loathed "slumdog millionaire" and spitted on the british director for making such a shitty film.......people need to come out of that mold towards india......

there will come a day in the future when all the doors are shut in the faces by most countries on most countries and it will come down to india to welcome the refugees......what will you say then?
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Old Jan 2nd, 2013, 06:14 PM   #171
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

getting back on topic, the rapists are going to get the death sentence......it's almost confirmed......

the reasoning is - they not only raped but tried to kill her by beating her, throwing her out and running the bus over her......that is nothing but attempt to murder......now that the girl is dead, it accounts for murder......

so don't worry......the bastards are doomed......
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Old Jan 2nd, 2013, 06:29 PM   #172
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

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Originally Posted by Start da Game View Post
^^

it is our problem, not yours.......you have your own problems to look at......first take care of them COMPLETELY, then only you qualify for offering suggestions to foreign countries......

now why i poked my nose in a topic like the US gun law is because it is seriously affecting my people as well.......that is all i am saying......

advise? yes, you are free to offer without touching the cultural aspects......

expressing the typical west supremacy(when it doesn't even exist in the first place) and trying to portray your country as one with no loopholes in relative terms? absolutely no......
"Without touching the cultural aspects"? You mean like ppl being burned to death for marrying someone from the wrong caste? Or do you "only" mean the killing of female babies (for no reason other than gender) both B4 and after birth? Maybe both?

By that fucked up "logic", white South Africans could have said the same thing about apartheid, the pre-1865 US about slavery, Nazi Germany about the Jewish Laws, etc. Go start your own fucking board, and you can tell ppl "who can discuss what".
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Old Jan 2nd, 2013, 07:01 PM   #173
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

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"Without touching the cultural aspects"? You mean like ppl being burned to death for marrying someone from the wrong caste? Or do you "only" mean the killing of female babies (for no reason other than gender) both B4 and after birth? Maybe both?

By that fucked up "logic", white South Africans could have said the same thing about apartheid, the pre-1865 US about slavery, Nazi Germany about the Jewish Laws, etc. Go start your own fucking board, and you can tell ppl "who can discuss what".
why the fuck are you generalizing based on an odd incident here and there? i routinely see news about brothers fucking their sisters and even their mothers in the west.......does that mean i can generalize and take it as your culture and start believing that there is one such guy in most of your families as well?

why the fuck do you continue to shamelessly take disastrous incidents for what i repeatedly say "cultures"? is that what you think culture means? or is it just that it suits your agenda here?

just stop your hypocritical garbage already.......
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Old Jan 2nd, 2013, 07:16 PM   #174
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

i am done with this thread......i no longer want to discuss with people with agendas and whose motive is just to piss off indian posters......

enjoy your continual attacks on india and get a kick out of it......i can only pity such people because there must be most things wrong with their own nations, for them to be having to exhibit uninvited interest on low points of other countries in order to self-justify their own sustenance in their respective countries......
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Old Jan 2nd, 2013, 07:29 PM   #175
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

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Originally Posted by Start da Game View Post

why the fuck are you generalizing based on an odd incident here and there? i routinely see news about brothers fucking their sisters and even their mothers in the west.......does that mean i can generalize and take it as your culture and start believing that there is one such guy in most of your families as well?

why the fuck do you continue to shamelessly take disastrous incidents for what i repeatedly say "cultures"? is that what you think culture means? or is it just that it suits your agenda here?
"An odd incident here and there"? Well let's take a couple of stats from a 28 Dec 2012 article on the website of the prestigious Brookings Institution:

[Finally, it is no secret that India remains a difficult country for women despite major advances by women in professional life. Basic indicators—female literacy, female labor force participation, female life expectancy and maternal mortality—are low relative to South Asian neighbors (Bangladesh and Sri Lanka) and even when compared to poorer countries such as Laos, Yemen and many countries in sub-Saharan Africa. The male-female ratio, a statistic that says much about the status of women in a society, remains one of the lowest in the world with only 940 women per thousand men.

These “missing women” are largely victims of sex-selective abortion, poor investments in health and education for girls, and their general neglect. Delhi and neighboring Haryana state have sex-ratios below the national average: 866 women and 830 women for every thousand men, respectively. The surplus of single men, the prevalence of widespread youth unemployment and the persistence of traditional marriage practices have combined to produce serious social consequences, including violence against women.]

The American posters here are generally quite ready to openly criticize aspects of US culture, and to discuss those with foreigners who enter such threads (like the current one about guns). If you feel the need to "justify" participating there, fine; most non-US posters don't, and US posters don't tell them to justify it.

If there's a thread started about a (common) atrocity like female genital mutilation in some traditional societies, you better believe that I and other Americans will comment on it, presumably quite harshly. Now if you'll excuse me, I've gotta go fuck my sister.
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Old Jan 2nd, 2013, 07:42 PM   #176
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

Okay, calm down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Start da Game View Post
^^

it is our problem, not yours.......you have your own problems to look at......first take care of them COMPLETELY, then only you qualify for offering suggestions to foreign countries......
This isn't a personal attack on India, and yes every country has it's own problems, but what is wrong with showing some compassion? Moreover, feeling angry over such a horrific incident and asking for answers is just. This isn't about your countries pride. We are all human.
Quote:
now why i poked my nose in a topic like the US gun law is because it is seriously affecting my people as well.......that is all i am saying......
Who makes these generalizations correct? You? Because you say so?
Quote:
advise? yes, you are free to offer without touching the cultural aspects......
That's exactly what you just did in your last sentence. America's gun problem IS a cultural problem.
Quote:
expressing the typical west supremacy(when it doesn't even exist in the first place) and trying to portray your country as one with no loopholes in relative terms? absolutely no......
There really isn't any reason to get so defensive. The majority here aren't bashing India, they are just condemning the terrible events that happened.

When the school shooting took place out in the US recently, I talked about the USA's gun control problem, yet I am not an American citizen. Why? Because I like practically everyone else am saddened and angry about what happened.

If people didn't care there would be no discussion about it. There would be no news channels. There would be no news coverage in general covering this. I just feel terribly sorry for the poor girl and everyone associated with this crime.
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Old Jan 2nd, 2013, 08:06 PM   #177
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

I think the real question is why do you care so much about people's perceptions of India, if they are sooooo incorrect, Start da Game? Your reactions have been so strong and over the top.

There isn't all that much evidence that many of the opinions expressed in this thread (particularly tennisbum's original post) stem directly from Western superiority. Also, without knowing the background of each and every poster in this thread. America is quite a diverse country, for all you know, tennisbum could be a naturalised American who was born and raised in Belarus, Botswana or Bolivia and may not even identify as a "westerner." I certainly don't think many people in this thread have agendas and "want to piss off Indian posters." What would be the motivation for that? Also, are any other Indian posters really pissed off that people care so much about this tragedy?


Yes, people have their reservations about the caste system, arranged marriages and some other issues but most know that India is an extremely diverse country that has changed a lot and continues to change. I think most people would admit that they don't know enough about India to really pass any strongly held views. I can't understand why you brought up the incest thing and said that you wouldn't assume that each family has one member who would commit incest. Has someone implied that rape is that widespread in India that each family would have a rapist among them!? I don't think so.

You seem to be very sensitive about your country. It's great that you seem to love India so much but you don't need to worry so much about people hating it or seeing it as backward or whatever you perceive to be going on in this thread. I think India is pretty well-regarded.
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Old Jan 2nd, 2013, 08:16 PM   #178
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

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Insularity?In this thread? I'm pretty much open about discussing various aspects of my country within my experience.
You are welcome to have a deeper analyis. Who is stopping you?
Yes, go on and accuse me of saying 'plz don't discuss' when for the record I've been the only Indian poster who has been forthcoming about discussing this tragedy and its aspects.
That is unacceptable to me. You have successfully managed to piss me off, after YOU PM'ed me about this thread.
I appreciate your insight.
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Old Jan 2nd, 2013, 08:34 PM   #179
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Re: India gang rape victim dies

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Superb post, and I certainly "harp on" how the poor are mistreated around the world, including in the US. Anyhow, neither tennisbum nor I would disagree with you that rape is a big problem in the US (and elsewhere).

This thread got derailed with a knee-jerk defensive reaction by Start da Game, with Ashi surprisingly seeming to second that reaction. I say surprising as Ashi has often shown herself 2B superbly intelligent, and could have written an eloquent balanced analysis, as you did here. Instead she defended SDG's insularity (with weak stuff like non-Indians seeing her ppl as a bunch of snake-charmers, etc) which I've never seen happen on this board.

I still think ppl like Ashi (or you) would make good members of the Lok Sabha, especially if (her) panning the idea ITT means she'd go there not giving a FF if she was re-elected or not. (Yes, the US Congress could use ppl who would rather lose than whore out, too). Anyhow, here's a Reuters article from yesterday that sheds some interesting light on things.

BTW (as Ashi used that irrelevant "but you PM'd me about this thread" dodge) I wish to note what I essentially said: that IF I raised the matter of sex-selection abortion, I expected "pro-choice absolutists" to jump on me.

Now its out there as A factor in India's "rape epidemic", including in major world media, so the PC types who act like any infringement on their sacrosanct word "choice" is verbotten can deal with the simple math: if any country skews the gender balance by misusing technologies like amniocentesis to facilitate backwards traditions like "only sons can provide for us", more young men will be rapists than would be otherwise.
*JR* why you coming after Ashi like that just because he disagreed with you in one of your posts? I mean really stop starting shit, he/she has been really fair and insightful on this topic. If you like Balava's post just compliment him/her without using his post to come after someone else. GEEZ!!!
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Old Jan 2nd, 2013, 10:16 PM   #180
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Re: India gang rape victim dies

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*JR* why you coming after Ashi like that just because he disagreed with you in one of your posts? I mean really stop starting shit, he/she has been really fair and insightful on this topic. If you like Balava's post just compliment him/her without using his post to come after someone else. GEEZ!!!
Hmmm, I said in the post you cited that I still think Ashi would be an asset to her country's Parliament, this spat notwithstanding. I still feel that she's a person of great ability, who unfortunately chose 2B an apologist for Start da Game's nutty "lectures" ITT, on the subject of what was proper for non-Indians to discuss. So we had a little tiff, no big deal. For example, you and I both watch American football, and have seen (very good) NFL quarterbacks sometimes scold their own (very good) receivers, and vice versa.

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NDTV is a big bogus and corrupt channel. Their investments are a sham (illegally routed through Mauritius but escaped), their Chief Editor is a big scam (involved in a huge 2G power brokering scandal but got away). Most national channels are either sold out and/or siding with the Govt. This is quite known to many Indians. Point is, there was a much bigger protests against corruption starting from late 2011 to late 2012. Most channels have played down the protests, tarnished the protestors, politicized the cause and what not.
No major network is perfect. For example, the leading left-of-center cable news channel in the United States is MSNBC. As Microsoft has almost no editorial role, its the cable news outlet of NBC; which is a subsidiary of General Electric. So there's one set of issues MSNBC's usually aggressive hosts largely ignore: anything nuclear (be it power generation or weapons). I find The Big Fight debate show on NDTV interesting, but that doesn't mean host (and CEO) Vikram Chandra is necessarily a future Saint, or should be so judged.
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YUG flag, because it never should have split up.
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