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Old Dec 27th, 2012, 05:36 PM   #106
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Re: Is there a case for considering Seles to be greater than Serena?

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Originally Posted by powerpuff27 View Post
I am not a Graf fan but I nearly choked at that. Graf is 10-1 vs Capriati, and by 1993 the early blooming Capriati was already the same age Graf was when she won the French Open and became #1 and was still losing in slam after slam to Graf in straight sets. No version of Capriati would be remote problem (other than the very odd fluke like the Olympic final) for even semi prime Graf. Graf also won their last match when Graf was 3 something like 6-0, 6-1 too, lol! The only top player Capriati was any problem for was Serena it seemed, the rest a piece of cake, and Graf probably found her easiest of all.
So true.
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Old Dec 27th, 2012, 05:37 PM   #107
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Re: Is there a case for considering Seles to be greater than Serena?

Certainly is for Maria
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Old Dec 27th, 2012, 05:56 PM   #108
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Re: Is there a case for considering Seles to be greater than Serena?

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Not this again Is the fact the top players win early rounds less easily than they used to a sign of the competition being greater, or a sign of the top players being less consistently brilliant than in past generations? Certainly ATP commentators all claim that the Big 4 sailing through the early rounds so easily is a sign of them being so great, rather than the rest of the field being weaker than it used to be



Again, by what quantifiable measure? Steffi Graf at her best won her matches more emphatically than Serena does, and her best seasons are much better than Serena's best seasons
But you're trying to make everything quantifiable by using scorelines and numbers but watching the matches, it's pretty clear the competition was very weak, and again, watching matches it's clear to see that Serena's tennis at her best has never been matched by any of the other girls in history
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Old Dec 27th, 2012, 05:58 PM   #109
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Re: Is there a case for considering Seles to be greater than Serena?

The other funny thing is even just in peak play one could argue all of Graf over Serena, Serena over Seles, and Seles over Graf if they want to. First off even using the most simplistic of logic, if of the 3 major surfaces one says Seles at her best is over Graf on clay and hard courts based on the early 90s, and one argued Serena over Seles on both grass and hard courts, one could still argue Graf over both Serena on clay (Seles above Serena on clay too so no conflict there) and grass (Graf way over Seles on grass too, so no conflict there). One could imagine a hypothetical Serena has the edge over Seles peak to peak at 3 of 4 slams, Seles over Graf at 3 of 4, and Graf over Serena at 2 of 4 but having the big edge of playing more regularly. That is even before considering the totally different matchups all 3 present vs either.

For the record in terms of just peak play I would rate them Serena over Graf over Seles if had to pick even if pure stats (W-L, slam domination, and other stats in their best years) would say Graf way ahead of the other two, and Seles a bit over Serena. Grafs peak years for me would be 88, 89, 95, and 96, so how she compared vs Seles in the early 90s would be meaningless to me when comparing them peak to peak, and thus would even be meaningless to the 3 way comparision hypothetical I went by for those who believe Seles was better than peak Graf just based on the early 90s. Graf in 89 and 95 for instance lost 2 matches, and in 91 for instance lost about 8 matches, and none of those to Seles, so it doesnt take an einstein to see the difference. In overall greatness my personal ranking would be just like the consensus Graf then Serena then Seles, but I would have Serena much closer to Graf than many people would, and she probably is closer to passing her in my mind than she is in many peoples.

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Old Dec 27th, 2012, 06:06 PM   #110
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Re: Is there a case for considering Seles to be greater than Serena?

Hm...forehand27 and powerpuff27 are quite similar posters, no?
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Old Dec 27th, 2012, 06:09 PM   #111
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Re: Is there a case for considering Seles to be greater than Serena?

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Originally Posted by RenaPova View Post
But you're trying to make everything quantifiable by using scorelines and numbers but watching the matches, it's pretty clear the competition was very weak, and again, watching matches it's clear to see that Serena's tennis at her best has never been matched by any of the other girls in history
From 1983 until 2003 the competition in the WTA got gradually better almost all the time, until starting to go gradually down since 2003, so Serena easily had more competition for awhile than either Graf or Seles (not to even mention Navratilova who had way worse competition overall than even Graf or Seles had, other than Evert mostly a bunch of bums who could barely play tennis). The double edged sword is the competition for Serena these days is not as strong as her competition once was.
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Old Dec 27th, 2012, 07:00 PM   #112
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Re: Is there a case for considering Seles to be greater than Serena?

No. Simple math dictates.
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Old Dec 28th, 2012, 05:45 AM   #113
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Re: Is there a case for considering Seles to be greater than Serena?

For those who claim Jennifer would get her ass kicked by graff in 2001 2002 form fail to realize that that Jennifer was vastly stronger and mentally tougher than Jennifer CAPRIATI of 1993... It's not even a competition Jen of 2001 would of double bageled Jen off 1992/93... So please give me a break
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Old Dec 28th, 2012, 05:46 AM   #114
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Re: Is there a case for considering Seles to be greater than Serena?

And graff wouldn't have overpowered Jen like she did in the past. It would be an even battle probably three sets...
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Old Dec 28th, 2012, 05:16 PM   #115
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Re: Is there a case for considering Seles to be greater than Serena?

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Hm...forehand27 and powerpuff27 are quite similar posters, no?
yes
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Old Feb 1st, 2013, 05:37 PM   #116
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Re: Is there a case for considering Seles to be greater than Serena?

LOL! I forgot this was another dsanders06 thread to "discuss" Graf v. Serena. Shame this one didn't get 20+ pages.....BUMP
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Old Feb 1st, 2013, 05:43 PM   #117
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Re: Is there a case for considering Seles to be greater than Serena?

How does anyone take this pitiful troll seriously
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Old Feb 1st, 2013, 08:37 PM   #118
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Re: Is there a case for considering Seles to be greater than Serena?

I can't believe anyone thinks 'yes'!
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Old Feb 1st, 2013, 08:42 PM   #119
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Re: Is there a case for considering Seles to be greater than Serena?



There's only one thing to do when a thread like this comes back from the dead.
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