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Old Dec 14th, 2012, 02:40 AM   #61
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Re: Predict who will win the 2013 head-to-head between Sharapova and Azarenka

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Originally Posted by Griffin. View Post
Same here. I mean they met 6 times this year, and that's without them playing any US Open Series tourneys. They could meet up to 8 times next season if they maintain consistency and Serena doesn't destroy them repeatedly.
No meetings on grass and only one on gravel as well.
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Old Dec 14th, 2012, 03:14 AM   #62
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Re: Predict who will win the 2013 head-to-head between Sharapova and Azarenka

Vika's going to lead it once again.

I don't doubt it for a second.

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Old Dec 14th, 2012, 03:32 AM   #63
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Re: Predict who will win the 2013 head-to-head between Sharapova and Azarenka

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Originally Posted by Miss Atomic Bomb View Post
Depends on which Vika shows up.

Its hard to predict which way Vika will go after her first major season, could've a Kvitova like season for all we know. If she continues playing like she did at the majors this year, she should increase their H2H gap.
This.
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Old Dec 14th, 2012, 03:37 AM   #64
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Re: Predict who will win the 2013 head-to-head between Sharapova and Azarenka

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Originally Posted by StoneRose View Post
Some of them are, you have to be blind not to see that . We all know who they are too. And they're not only pressed about Vika, about Serena, sometimes Aga too. Pick some random threads here preferably with the name Serena or Vika in it and you can enjoy them all.
I'm not disagreeing with that, trust me. But saying that Maria is no threat to Vika is reaching.
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Old Dec 14th, 2012, 04:01 AM   #65
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Re: Predict who will win the 2013 head-to-head between Sharapova and Azarenka

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Originally Posted by Mustachepova View Post
I'm not disagreeing with that, trust me. But saying that Maria is no threat to Vika is reaching.
I exaggerated slightly. But i believe Vika will stay on top in their H2H for the reasons i stated in reply to dsanders a few posts ago.
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Old Dec 14th, 2012, 07:03 AM   #66
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I exaggerated a bit because it's downright impossible to answer intelligently to the dumb arguments some Masha fans bring to the table.

But yes, i certainly believe Vika will have the edge. There were 6 matches this year and Vika won the first 2 with very convincing scorelines. It got closer thereafter, Maria was much too strong in Stuttgart. Maybe Vika underestimated her there but based on that encounter alone i'd give Maria the edge on that surface. USO was close too, then again Vika was considerably stronger second and third set. Maria just couldn't hit through Vika anymore. YEC Vika was clearly very tired, imo she shouldn't have played Linz with such an important tournament coming up but i got the impression she was already happy to clinch #1 there. Underestimation and fatigue can be no excuses of course and there are undoubtedly excuses to be made for Maria as well on some of these occasions.

Apart from the numbers, 4-2 this year, it's the way their matches on HC go. I don't think Maria can keep up with the pace Vika put's in these rallies for 2 sets. Of course Maria has more power and can hit winners (and also errors) more easily than Vika but she needs some time to do that, on form Vika isn't giving her that time on HC. And HC's where most of the tournaments are played. Grass, i don't know. I thought Vika played a slightly better grass season than Maria but they didn't meet so it's unclear for now.

I'm surprised myself you give Masha the edge 5-2. She would have to be playing a lot better or Vika a lot worse in their H2H than this year for that to happen.
What a lot of crap so Vika underestimated Maria in Stuttgart but this is in Stuttgart that Vika played a better match than all the previous and future meetings against Maria
Vika was simply outplayed in Stuttgart, admit it the stats speaks for themselves.

As for US Open, it's funny cause you can come up with the Vika was tired in the YEC while in US you don't pay attention to the fact that after 2 three setter over Petrova and Bartoli, Maria's shape was also in poor condition she really was hitting Vika off the court in the first set before really DFing like crazy at the end if the first set and give hope to Vika to comeback in this one, Vika didn't do anything to break at 5-1 Maria basically gave her the game.

As for the last two sets, I will admit that Vika started moving a lot better, hitting harder too but you have to be blind to not see that Maria's shots weren't as fierce as they were in the first set, she was also all over the place she had many chances to win more than 2 games in this set but she was really up and down.
She missed 2 game points at 1-0, then missed a lot of break points at 1-3 then 2-4 as well and finally blew 3 game points in a row to go 3-5 for Vika, it would have been interesting to see Vika forced to close the second set but whatever.
In the last set she won 4 games purely on her will she couldn't even return to save her life.

Anyway I think Dsanders summed it up pretty damn well in the last 4 meetings, Maria is getting more closer to Vika than you think and I also noticed that Maria's serve is also becoming stronger and stronger month by month if she keep it up she can definitely turn this rivalry to her side but I do expect Vika to prevail sometimes too that's for sure.

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Old Dec 14th, 2012, 08:39 AM   #67
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Re: Predict who will win the 2013 head-to-head between Sharapova and Azarenka

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Originally Posted by dsanders06 View Post
Orrr, maybe, just maybe, the thread was created because I genuinely want to discuss the most interesting rivalry on the WTA right now. Or are you guys seeing what you want to see again like in the "where does Serena go from here", where you genuinely all believed that I'd written Serena was washed-up and that the thread was an "epic fail" even though nothing I wrote in it was disproven

Kindly don't post in this thread again unless you have something to contribute other than lame GIFs and/or failed attempts at burns.
1. I just found it a curious case of 'humble'-pie. Because even after IW most Mashafans were dismissing Vika as a genuine rival ( saying things like she's just lucky this ain't peak Masha, yada yada, but I guess then U.S. open and Beijing happened and her fans finally realised that Vika might actually be a player and have something to say in this rivalry.

2. I'm sure we'll be talking about that infamous thread about Serena by next U.S. open. Too bad it got closed, because it'd love to see if you were gonna be man enough to admit that you'd been exposed as a fool.
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Old Dec 14th, 2012, 12:08 PM   #68
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Re: Predict who will win the 2013 head-to-head between Sharapova and Azarenka

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Originally Posted by doomsday View Post
Serena will do her very best to interfere as the N3 seed it's very likely though.
She will snatch both of them.
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Originally Posted by Miss Atomic Bomb View Post
She won't be the N3 seed for too long. Afterwards Australia, they will have plenty of opportunities to play eachother in the semis.
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Originally Posted by dragonflies View Post
Going to the AO, Serena will have a lead of 1,000+ points over Azarenka and almost 1,000 points over Sharapova in safe points. The later 2 also have lots of points to defend in the first half of the season, so if Serena plays a normal schedule, she is likely to be ranked ahead of both of them till Wimbledon. That means Aza and Maria could meet in the SF, instead of only in the finals.
I was kind of joking, but fine.

yes, ranking is clear, (750pts over Azarenka and 600pts over Maria actually), she'll be #1 after AO and the luckier one of Maria-Vika will stay #2. But there is no warrant both will be in top form and avoid upsets all the time to meet in SFs (or Finals when Serena doesnt play).

also
- Azarenka-Radwanska happened 6 times over 4 mothns and neither of it was in final. The probability of this scenario is very little.
- OTOH Azarenka-Kvitova never happened in 2012, and not just because Kvitova "sucked".
Which is more likely? 6-8 meetings or 0?
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Old Dec 14th, 2012, 01:25 PM   #69
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Re: Predict who will win the 2013 head-to-head between Sharapova and Azarenka

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Originally Posted by doomsday View Post
What a lot of crap so Vika underestimated Maria in Stuttgart but this is in Stuttgart that Vika played a better match than all the previous and future meetings against Maria
Vika was simply outplayed in Stuttgart, admit it the stats speaks for themselves.
My words were "Maria was much too strong in Stuttgart" so where am i not admitting . To say that this was Vika's best match against Maria seems ridiculous to me .

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Originally Posted by doomsday View Post
As for US Open, it's funny cause you can come up with the Vika was tired in the YEC while in US you don't pay attention to the fact that after 2 three setter over Petrova and Bartoli, Maria's shape was also in poor condition she really was hitting Vika off the court in the first set before really DFing like crazy at the end if the first set and give hope to Vika to comeback in this one, Vika didn't do anything to break at 5-1 Maria basically gave her the game.

As for the last two sets, I will admit that Vika started moving a lot better, hitting harder too but you have to be blind to not see that Maria's shots weren't as fierce as they were in the first set, she was also all over the place she had many chances to win more than 2 games in this set but she was really up and down.
She missed 2 game points at 1-0, then missed a lot of break points at 1-3 then 2-4 as well and finally blew 3 game points in a row to go 3-5 for Vika, it would have been interesting to see Vika forced to close the second set but whatever.
In the last set she won 4 games purely on her will she couldn't even return to save her life.
I also mentioned in my post that underestimation and tiredness are no excuses and that Maria may have had cause not to play her best as well at times. What's done is done and we ended up 4-2. I don't see Vika folding next year so Maria would need to improve significantly on HC to turn this H2H around, i don't see that happen.
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Old Dec 14th, 2012, 01:30 PM   #70
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Re: Predict who will win the 2013 head-to-head between Sharapova and Azarenka

I think Vika will still be leading the h2h at the end of the 2013 season
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Old Dec 14th, 2012, 04:23 PM   #71
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Re: Predict who will win the 2013 head-to-head between Sharapova and Azarenka

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Originally Posted by StoneRose View Post
I exaggerated a bit because it's downright impossible to answer intelligently to the dumb arguments some Masha fans bring to the table.
Well OK, fair enough
And I'll admit I too was exaggerating slightly when I predicted Maria will win their 2013 matches 5-2 (probably wishful thinking because I want Maria to take the lead in the Career H2H). Realistically, I think a 2-match advantage in 2013 is the best Maria can hope for.

Quote:
But yes, i certainly believe Vika will have the edge. There were 6 matches this year and Vika won the first 2 with very convincing scorelines. It got closer thereafter, Maria was much too strong in Stuttgart. Maybe Vika underestimated her there but based on that encounter alone i'd give Maria the edge on that surface. USO was close too, then again Vika was considerably stronger second and third set. Maria just couldn't hit through Vika anymore. YEC Vika was clearly very tired, imo she shouldn't have played Linz with such an important tournament coming up but i got the impression she was already happy to clinch #1 there. Underestimation and fatigue can be no excuses of course and there are undoubtedly excuses to be made for Maria as well on some of these occasions.
For me, the Australian Open and Indian Wells matches don't really have much bearing on how the "PovaRenka" match-up is now. Those 2 matches were part of a sequence where Maria lost 9 sets in a row against Vika, when Maria clearly WAS clueless on what to do against her .... whereas, in the 9 sets AFTER that, Maria has actually had a slight edge, so the match-up has clearly turned a corner since then So I'm just not sure how relevant the AO/IW matches are for their rivalry going forward.

But yes, I do think Maria's play against Vika will continue to improve, although like I said I'm not going to pretend I have anything more substantial to base it on than gut instinct. One thing I do think that should be beared in mind is, imo, Maria doesn't get enough credit for her willingness to adapt her game to certain opponents, and her persistence in trying to beat players who are owning her at a time. I mean, apart from Serena, there's NEVER been an opponent in her whole career that Maria hasn't eventually figured out a way to play eventually, even if she first struggles with them for 1 or 2 seasons. Look at her match-up with Li -- admittedly Maria never struggled with Li quite as much as she's struggled with Vika, but still, going from losing 4 matches in a row against Li, to comprehensively figuring her out in 2012, is still a pretty drastic turn of events.

Anyway, even if it turns out Vika ends up having the upper-hand on her in 2013, I'm still very much looking forward to it, and in fact their US Open semifinal was for me the best WTA match of the year, even if it didn't end the way I wanted it to And I actually have a feeling that, irrespective of who wins the majority of their matches, most of them from now on will be closer to the USO match, rather than the one-sided wins they've mostly been getting over eachother until now.
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Old Dec 14th, 2012, 04:37 PM   #72
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Re: Predict who will win the 2013 head-to-head between Sharapova and Azarenka

Whoever improves on the weakest part of their game will own the other by end of 2013
Both have an inconsistent & unreliable serve, both return well with Vika having the edge.
Vika is consistent on her deep ground strokes, is very athletic and moves far better than Maria
Maria is mentally tougher, not by a wide margin but hit the lines hard with accuracy

Based on these observations, I say 3-2 Vika ...they may not even meet at all because of the other big cats interfering
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Old Dec 14th, 2012, 04:49 PM   #73
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Re: Predict who will win the 2013 head-to-head between Sharapova and Azarenka

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Originally Posted by dsanders06 View Post
Well OK, fair enough
And I'll admit I too was exaggerating slightly when I predicted Maria will win their 2013 matches 5-2 (probably wishful thinking because I want Maria to take the lead in the Career H2H). Realistically, I think a 2-match advantage in 2013 is the best Maria can hope for.
Just so we're clear on this, i don't think you're one of the Masha fans using dumb arguments. Your posts are sometimes provoking which in itself is not a problem as they have good or at least interesting reasoning (most of the time ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsanders06 View Post
For me, the Australian Open and Indian Wells matches don't really have much bearing on how the "PovaRenka" match-up is now. Those 2 matches were part of a sequence where Maria lost 9 sets in a row against Vika, when Maria clearly WAS clueless on what to do against her .... whereas, in the 9 sets AFTER that, Maria has actually had a slight edge, so the match-up has clearly turned a corner since then So I'm just not sure how relevant the AO/IW matches are for their rivalry going forward.
Hard to tell indeed but Beijing showed the same pattern and that was a recent match.

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Originally Posted by dsanders06 View Post
But yes, I do think Maria's play against Vika will continue to improve, although like I said I'm not going to pretend I have anything more substantial to base it on than gut instinct. One thing I do think that should be beared in mind is, imo, Maria doesn't get enough credit for her willingness to adapt her game to certain opponents, and her persistence in trying to beat players who are owning her at a time. I mean, apart from Serena, there's NEVER been an opponent in her whole career that Maria hasn't eventually figured out a way to play eventually, even if she first struggles with them for 1 or 2 seasons. Look at her match-up with Li -- admittedly Maria never struggled with Li quite as much as she's struggled with Vika, but still, going from losing 4 matches in a row against Li, to comprehensively figuring her out in 2012, is still a pretty drastic turn of events.

Anyway, even if it turns out Vika ends up having the upper-hand on her in 2013, I'm still very much looking forward to it, and in fact their US Open semifinal was for me the best WTA match of the year, even if it didn't end the way I wanted it to And I actually have a feeling that, irrespective of who wins the majority of their matches, most of them from now on will be closer to the USO match, rather than the one-sided wins they've mostly been getting over eachother until now.
Interesting thought Maria adapting her game to opponents. I'm not fully convinced. Maria has improved a lot the last 2 years and Li is fading away which may have tipped the balance in their H2H. Vika had problems with Li as well but not anymore. But it's not because Vika adapted i believe, like Maria she improved and Li hits way too many errors nowadays.

Of course my feeling is gut feeling, speculation, whatever you call it as well. I'm looking forward to their matches next year too.
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Old Dec 14th, 2012, 05:08 PM   #74
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Re: Predict who will win the 2013 head-to-head between Sharapova and Azarenka

from where i stand i see 3-1 azarenka in 2013
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Old Dec 14th, 2012, 08:01 PM   #75
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Re: Predict who will win the 2013 head-to-head between Sharapova and Azarenka

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Interesting thought Maria adapting her game to opponents. I'm not fully convinced.

Maria with her one-dimensional game isn't able to adapt anything.
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