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Old Dec 6th, 2012, 11:50 PM   #16
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Re: East Asia

Which korea are you talking about?
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Old Dec 6th, 2012, 11:56 PM   #17
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Re: East Asia

^ Korea was divided in 1945. (FDR shouldn't have allowed USSR to wage war upon Japan at Yalta Well, the military didn't want to shed their blood, so were relentless in urging FDR ) I thought you knew that
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Old Dec 6th, 2012, 11:57 PM   #18
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Re: East Asia

Really? What part of Apgu? Near the station? Galleria/Rodeo? Near Hakdong Sageori? I'm forgetting the names of the apt complexes. I was a stone's throw from Hakdong Sageori so I spent a lot of time in Apgujeong.

Yeah, the surnames don't make much sense. Kim is good enough, I think but I don't like Lee, Park (I always spell it "Pak" in English) Kang (which I spell Gang) or Hur (which I spell Heo, I think some Koreans spell it that way too) I was just talking about how common Kim, Lee and Park/Pak are in Korea. I would say Kang/Gang would be a distant fourth. A friend of mine said Jong. What do you think? A friend of mine is a Lee and can trace her ancestry to the same region as Lee Myeong-bak. She hates him though.

The Japanese may have done terrible things in the past but they seem to be very peaceable these days...at least when it comes to certain things. I'll never forget my visit to the Peace Park in Hiroshima. There's a memorial there to the Korean victims of the bombing.
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Old Dec 7th, 2012, 12:01 AM   #19
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Re: East Asia

If you remember an OLD Y shaped apartment Hyundai 91(who the fuck named it Hyundai in english )building right next to Sungsu bridge and just across Gu jung middle school, that's where my family live

Surnames? Yeah one of the peculiarity of Korea Too common, those 3 Those ignorant of Korea might think that Korea is dominated by big 3 families I think Jung is 4th, but not sure

And what? Why is Kim good, it should be pronounced Gim(but not gym English can be so random ), and Lee, Yee (to think about it, Yee is not accurate either, just ee then )
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Old Dec 7th, 2012, 12:02 AM   #20
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Re: East Asia


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Old Dec 7th, 2012, 12:07 AM   #21
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Re: East Asia

by the by, Seoul is one of the MOST godawful looking capital city for sure. Absolutely DOMINATED by high apartment complex; Those range along the Han river Nice for the apartment tenants, for sure, but absolutely ruins the scenery Frankfurt, London, Paris, those European cities...I truly envy them
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Old Dec 7th, 2012, 12:10 AM   #22
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Re: East Asia

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Is that Japan? They love to portray themselves as a victim, but historically they ALWAYS have been aggressors
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Old Dec 7th, 2012, 12:14 AM   #23
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Re: East Asia

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R

The Japanese may have done terrible things in the past but they seem to be very peaceable these days...at least when it comes to certain things.
I sure hope so, for humanity's sake. It's a REAL pity their political development was not on par with their rapid military and economic Westernization. Well, not that different from the West, I guess. Japan just followed the path of Western Imperialism
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Old Dec 7th, 2012, 12:50 AM   #24
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Re: East Asia

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anything pertaining to East Asia.
I'm mostly interested in East Asian men.
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Old Dec 7th, 2012, 12:52 AM   #25
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Re: East Asia

I think Korea was like Byzantium in the sense that they were both bureaucratic and ritualistic (religion). Chosun dynasty(1392~1900?) was Confucian state par excellence, there were even major debates about how long should the current king mourn his father

Chosun dynasty was quite an elite-driven society(true to Confucianism), and their royal output, such as official history, is famous. Many elites composed poems and essays, even stories too, but those aren't well known to the West. Some concubines (Gi-saeng) had some literary outputs as well

Japanese literature is well known because West have been exposed to them for a long time, due to their diligent translation effort for centuries.
Hell, Japanese paintings influenced Impressionists, even.

Koreans?(translating effort) Lazy
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Old Dec 7th, 2012, 03:21 AM   #26
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Re: East Asia

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Varied literature as in imo Korean literature took much longer to stop mimicking Chinese literature and to create "Korean literature." Japanese began to break away from just mimicking China earlier on, and we got things like the first novel in Genji, bunraku and kabuki plays, waka and haiku, etc. I'd agree though that Japan was helped by having a flourishing popular culture scene that ended up fusing low-brow with high-brow for new types of literature like haikai.
Just curious. How do you know about these. Did you take classes or something? Have you read those Japanese literature outputs? Have you read any Korean ones?(assuming there is translation ) What do you mean about the bolded part? When do you think then Korea 'broke away' from just mimicking China? What's so peculiar about the Japanese literary outputs or genres you mentioned? I'm not particularly versed in Japanese literature (I do hope to read Genji someday There is like 3 prominent english translations; Japanese literature is THAT well exposed, million times better than Korea), so enlighten us
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Old Dec 7th, 2012, 04:23 AM   #27
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Re: East Asia

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Just curious. How do you know about these. Did you take classes or something? Have you read those Japanese literature outputs? Have you read any Korean ones?(assuming there is translation ) What do you mean about the bolded part? When do you think then Korea 'broke away' from just mimicking China? What's so peculiar about the Japanese literary outputs or genres you mentioned? I'm not particularly versed in Japanese literature (I do hope to read Genji someday There is like 3 prominent english translations; Japanese literature is THAT well exposed, million times better than Korea), so enlighten us
Lol this is so putting me on the spot. Yes, I've taken classes on East Asian literature. I'll be taking a modern Chinese lit course next semester which I'm excited for. I am an International Relations/Econ double major with a focus on East Asia, so much of my humanities courses are on things like Japanese literature and Korean cinema. I recommend the Royall Tyler translation of Genji btw. Arthur Waley's is lovely as well, but it was before the time when people thought you needed to stay close to the original.

And I mean that after Japan spent much of it's early years writing crappy wannabe Chinese poetry (usually in crappy Chinese), they began to break away and create "Japanese literature" as opposed to "Chinese literature written by Japanese men who barely speak Chinese." A lot of the most original Japanese literature in this time period (Heian) was actually written by women, since they weren't allowed to learn Chinese thus they couldn't mimic Chinese writing. The Pillow Book is another lovely work from a woman. There's actually another that I loved even more that was written by a woman, but I can't remember her name and I don't have my book with me at school. I just remember it being uber-sad with a woman sitting in the rain reminiscing about before her husband stopped caring about her and started having affairs.

At the same time period uniquely Japanese poetry began to develop, especially the waka form which is completely Japanese and not a Chinese knockoff. Other forms of poetry later developed out of low-brow popular culture, like you mentioned, like the Renku linked verses, which then got scrubbed up and turned into a respected art form. Renku was designed to disorient the senses, by often alluding to Heian and Chinese poetry, then juxtaposing it with sex or other vulgarity (at least early on, before they cleaned it up). Haiku, in turn, come from renku poems. But I could go on, but I'm not doing it justice. If you want a good anthology on Japanese literature I recommend Early Modern Japanese Literature, compiled by Shirane Haruo. It's a massive purple brick. It even contains a large section on Japanese straight ad gay pornographic writing in the 1600s. We read this in class, it was fun.

Unfortunately, I'm not as schooled in Korean literature. I have read some early works, and they remind me a lot of early Japanese poetry that tries too hard. I've read more in modern literature such as Hwang Sun-won. Imo tho I don't think it's a coincidence that Japanese literature broke from Chinese earlier and the fact that Korea used Chinese script as the main basis of their writing longer than Japan did.
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Old Dec 7th, 2012, 05:15 AM   #28
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Re: East Asia

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Lol this is so putting me on the spot.
That was my intention


Quote:

Unfortunately, I'm not as schooled in Korean literature. I have read some early works, and they remind me a lot of early Japanese poetry that tries too hard. I've read more in modern literature such as Hwang Sun-won. Imo tho I don't think it's a coincidence that Japanese literature broke from Chinese earlier and the fact that Korea used Chinese script as the main basis of their writing longer than Japan did.
Bolded;

But could you tell me which early works, like author and period. I'm curious how Korean literature is taught in the West. Hwang Sun-won? That's too late

But thx for the info on Japanese lit., yeah I know the merits of both versions of Genji you mentioned, but I guess Waley has its peculiar merit too, just like the Urquhart/Motteux version of Francois Rabelais.
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Old Dec 7th, 2012, 05:34 AM   #29
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Re: East Asia

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Is that Japan? They love to portray themselves as a victim, but historically they ALWAYS have been aggressors
Surely not always? For example the 13th Century Mongol invasions or the attempts by Western nations to "open up" Japan.
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Old Dec 7th, 2012, 05:41 AM   #30
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Re: East Asia

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I sure hope so, for humanity's sake. It's a REAL pity their political development was not on par with their rapid military and economic Westernization. Well, not that different from the West, I guess. Japan just followed the path of Western Imperialism
The coming election in Japan will see Japan lurch in a worrying Nationalistic direction. Yet Korean and Chinese leaders are not without blame. In recent years when faced with domestic troubles its often been a convenient distraction for them to bring up issues relating to Japan.

I have no time for nationalists, Jaoanese, Korean or Chinese.
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