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Old Dec 8th, 2012, 10:00 PM   #136
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Re: Why do tennis fans accept lesbian tennis stars yet no one in ATP out of closet?

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Originally Posted by Flavia P. View Post
The stereotypes that all gay men aren't tough are dying out. That was based on TV, specifically, Queer Eye, Will and Grace, and other shows where fem gay men were THE only representation of gay men. Now that masculine gay men are coming out, and now that people realize most gay men actually work out, and a large portion of us have better bodies and are more athletic than most every-day straight guys, that view is only held by the very ignorant. That's not the reason why there aren't openly gay players.

It's more garden variety homophobia and fear. Most these athletes and fans too, don't have much to any real experience with the gay community or gay people. That leads to ignorance. Which leads to hatred.

BTW, being fem isn't a negative thing. It's not something people should be trying to disassociate from. That's just another symptom of misogyny.
Let's not forget gay men can be absolute slobs too and have no sense of health decorum whatsoever.

Wasn't there a special one-off episode of QEFTSG but it was Queer Eye for the Gay Guy and I think they were making fun of how "un-gay" he really was. Or maybe I was imagining it.
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Old Dec 8th, 2012, 10:14 PM   #137
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Re: Why do tennis fans accept lesbian tennis stars yet no one in ATP out of closet?

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Let's not forget gay men can be absolute slobs too and have no sense of health decorum whatsoever.
Sooooo right.

Quote:
Wasn't there a special one-off episode of QEFTSG but it was Queer Eye for the Gay Guy and I think they were making fun of how "un-gay" he really was. Or maybe I was imagining it.
It probably happened, but I don't remember at all

Stereotypes are only as real as one makes them.
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Old Dec 9th, 2012, 03:03 PM   #138
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Re: Why do tennis fans accept lesbian tennis stars yet no one in ATP out of closet?

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Originally Posted by Flavia P. View Post
There are ATP players who sleep with the same-sex and it's more than people would believe. Don't believe what you see on TV. Bearding isn't just a Hollywood thing. At the same time, most of these guys do NOT identify as gay and will not, for whatever personal reasons they have. And I'm not going to name names here.
Oh really. How on earth do you know this? See this is my problem. People claiming to know personal things about complete strangers. Saying "I won't name names" doesn't give your claims anymore credibility either! It is wishful thinking and projecting.
The same goes for your comments Morissey. If you ARE talking about Nadal, then saying you are "almost completely sure he is bisexual or gay" because of an article? WTF? When is an article concrete proof of anything. I bet you wouldn't believe an article that said he is dating Sharapova, for example. You can't pick and choose what to believe. A woman saying he might be gay cos he didn't talk passionately about his girlfriend? Ridiculous. If people actually believe someone is gay with zero evidence, you can't even reason with them

Believe me, it works both ways. I had an argument with some woman who claimed Matt Bomer was bisexual "cos she read it somewhere" So the man himself telling you he is gay means nothing?! This is the problem when sexuality gets discussed, people start making claims they cannot support. "A source said this", "my friend said that" etc. Ultimately, we know nothing about these people's lives. I would be shocked if NO ATP player was gay, but we cannot say for sure and we cannot expect people to come out if they don't want to. I don't think people should force the issue.

As for the person who said lesbians have it better than gay men, I am speechless. It's not a competition. Men like the idea of two women together, but only if they can somehow be involved. Believe me, my lesbian friends have been treated absolutely terribly. In the LGBT communtity, there have been many people who have been killed or committed suicide. To argue who is treated worse is actually quite insulting and helps no one

Sorry for the rant, but some things in this thread have irked me. Finally I will just say it would be great for more sportsmen and women to come out, but unfortunately I don't see it happening. But trying to "out" people, especially based on nothing at all, is not helpful at all to the cause.
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Old Dec 9th, 2012, 03:14 PM   #139
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Re: Why do tennis fans accept lesbian tennis stars yet no one in ATP out of closet?

People who have asked for the names have gotten the names and I don't need to fabricate things. If you're in the know and in the circle, you know what the deal is. And as far as gay rumors, when there is smoke, there often is fire.

I agree that players should not be forced out, since that's an extreme violation of personal space. But discussion of a player's sex/relationship life is just that and it shouldn't be treated differently if the person is potentially gay. The thing is...........these players are closeted so they're lives are extremely discreet and not very public. So there isn't much to discuss.
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Old Dec 9th, 2012, 03:20 PM   #140
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Re: Why do tennis fans accept lesbian tennis stars yet no one in ATP out of closet?

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Originally Posted by Flavia P. View Post
People who have asked for the names have gotten the names and I don't need to fabricate things. If you're in the know and in the circle, you know what the deal is. And as far as gay rumors, when there is smoke, there often is fire.

I agree that players should not be forced out, since that's an extreme violation of personal space. But discussion of a player's sex/relationship life is just that and it shouldn't be treated differently if the person is potentially gay. The thing is...........these players are closeted so they're lives are extremely discreet and not very public. So there isn't much to discuss.
Then put the names..now you're blah blahing, playing cute. Name names. Who's the who you're talking about?
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Old Dec 9th, 2012, 03:33 PM   #141
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Re: Why do tennis fans accept lesbian tennis stars yet no one in ATP out of closet?

PM me for names and I'll give names. It's not that many names.
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Old Dec 9th, 2012, 03:35 PM   #142
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Re: Why do tennis fans accept lesbian tennis stars yet no one in ATP out of closet?

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Originally Posted by Flavia P. View Post
People who have asked for the names have gotten the names and I don't need to fabricate things. If you're in the know and in the circle, you know what the deal is. And as far as gay rumors, when there is smoke, there often is fire.

I agree that players should not be forced out, since that's an extreme violation of personal space. But discussion of a player's sex/relationship life is just that and it shouldn't be treated differently if the person is potentially gay. The thing is...........these players are closeted so they're lives are extremely discreet and not very public. So there isn't much to discuss.
You're contradicting yourself here. Discussion of a gay player's sex/relationshgip life is fine, as long as they are out of the closet. Discussing things, and finding "proof" they are gay when they are not out IS forcing them to come out. As is giving out names "in private".

If you're "in the know and in the circle" and you know someone's gay, good for you. Hinting about it and trying to make people guess who it is, is not cool. Let them live their lives on their own terms.
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Old Dec 9th, 2012, 03:48 PM   #143
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Re: Why do tennis fans accept lesbian tennis stars yet no one in ATP out of closet?

I'm not telling people to guess, that's tacky. In fact, I said I didn't want to give names here because I don't want to throw everything out there. But if you ask for names, privately, I'll give them. And keep everything on the discreet, DL level they are now. Since it's not as if these players are celibate. They're not. They're on the DL. So outing them would be me exposing their DL life publicly, and I wouldn't do that, since first, I don't know what that life is, and secondly, I think outing people is like, rule #1 gay code not to break.

I see no problem hinting/discussing about it, or discussing the issue of closeted players on tour and in sports. In fact I never hinted at it, I flat out said there are guys on tour who are into the same sex. It's a fact. If a player wants to be closeted, that's their business. But it's a fact that there are players on tour who have had sex with men.

Gay players are in sports, and there are many. And at the lower non-professional level, there are many. There is no point in trying to gloss over that. That does nothing but continue to increase stigma. This issue can be discussed while not outing these players and understanding the different social dynamics and complications that come with being openly straight vs openly gay.
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Old Dec 9th, 2012, 10:48 PM   #144
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Re: Why do tennis fans accept lesbian tennis stars yet no one in ATP out of closet?

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He's clearly talking about Nadal. A British female journalist, famous for her hatchet job interviews, insinuated Nadal was gay because he didn't seem to speak about Xisca with much passion. As much as I'd love for Nadal to be gay, I really doubt that he is. He's insanely famous. Something more definitive would have leaked by now.
I disagree the top players like Nadal have power PR teams and the tennis community is very insular I doubt if a tennis journalist wrote a piece outing Nadal that journalist would not be criticized by others. Since Barber doesn't really like tennis and had an objective eye she wrote an article about what she saw of Nadal.

Barber wrote about Tiger Woods in her article about Nadal as an EXAMPLE pointing out Woods had an image of being a clean family man. However, Woods is really a womanizer and a sex addict. Woods image was shattered when the truth came out about his sexual exploits.

Barber did a good job pointing out tennis fans DO NOT KNOW TENNIS STARS WE KNOW THE IMAGE THEY CREATE with their PR teams. We do not know them as people their images are carefully crafted and put together. Barber was providing her readers with some OBJECTIVITY she was pointing out that tennis fans need to think more critically what we see is NOT really the truth about these stars. The stars have to sell an image, products, endosements and tennis fans feed into the hype by BELIEVING the image the stars are selling.

Lynn Barber wasn't saying she believes Nadal is gay just because he did not speak about the girlfriend with passion. Barber proved in her article with excellent investigative journalism that the girlfriend is a beard simply a facade to give Nadal a straight image. In Barber's article she also pointed out some very important things. First, Barber pointed out Nadal doesn't really spend that much time with his so called girlfriend. Barber is correct pretty hard to have a relationship with someone when you hardly see the other person. Yes, there is long distance romance but Nadal is on the road on the ATP Tour for 11 months in the year. Second, Barber pointed out correctly that Uncle Toni created the girlfriend to give Nadal a heterosexual image to deflect rumours about his sexuality. Three, Barber once again is correct when she points out the girlfriend shows up for grand slam semifinals and finals and occassional ATP events. The girlfriend is clearly a beard there is no relationship between her and Nadal she is just present to give Nadal an illusion of appearing straight.

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Old Dec 9th, 2012, 10:53 PM   #145
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Re: Why do tennis fans accept lesbian tennis stars yet no one in ATP out of closet?

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It is because being Lesbian was never really socially oppressed but more socially encourage, even in old times woman to woman sexual encounters are found attractive and flaunted as man to man relations are found sick and disgusting. So there is no real comparison. Being Lesbian is nothing like being gay.
Wow please stop talking
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Old Dec 9th, 2012, 11:15 PM   #146
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Re: Why do tennis fans accept lesbian tennis stars yet no one in ATP out of closet?

THat article about Nadal was pure shit. It proved absolutely nothing.

Second, about all the insinuations courtesy of Flavia P, being gay and having slept with the same sex are not the smae thing at all. Anyway, I fail to see how discussing it on PM is any different from outing people in public.
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Old Dec 10th, 2012, 02:42 PM   #147
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Re: Why do tennis fans accept lesbian tennis stars yet no one in ATP out of closet?

couldn't care less but surprised Schiavone's name hasn't been mentioned...
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Old Dec 10th, 2012, 03:07 PM   #148
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couldn't care less but surprised Schiavone's name hasn't been mentioned...
Why should she have been mentioned?
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Old Dec 10th, 2012, 03:09 PM   #149
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Re: Why do tennis fans accept lesbian tennis stars yet no one in ATP out of closet?

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Originally Posted by Morrissey View Post
I disagree the top players like Nadal have power PR teams and the tennis community is very insular I doubt if a tennis journalist wrote a piece outing Nadal that journalist would not be criticized by others. Since Barber doesn't really like tennis and had an objective eye she wrote an article about what she saw of Nadal.

Barber wrote about Tiger Woods in her article about Nadal as an EXAMPLE pointing out Woods had an image of being a clean family man. However, Woods is really a womanizer and a sex addict. Woods image was shattered when the truth came out about his sexual exploits.

Barber did a good job pointing out tennis fans DO NOT KNOW TENNIS STARS WE KNOW THE IMAGE THEY CREATE with their PR teams. We do not know them as people their images are carefully crafted and put together. Barber was providing her readers with some OBJECTIVITY she was pointing out that tennis fans need to think more critically what we see is NOT really the truth about these stars. The stars have to sell an image, products, endosements and tennis fans feed into the hype by BELIEVING the image the stars are selling.

Lynn Barber wasn't saying she believes Nadal is gay just because he did not speak about the girlfriend with passion. Barber proved in her article with excellent investigative journalism that the girlfriend is a beard simply a facade to give Nadal a straight image. In Barber's article she also pointed out some very important things. First, Barber pointed out Nadal doesn't really spend that much time with his so called girlfriend. Barber is correct pretty hard to have a relationship with someone when you hardly see the other person. Yes, there is long distance romance but Nadal is on the road on the ATP Tour for 11 months in the year. Second, Barber pointed out correctly that Uncle Toni created the girlfriend to give Nadal a heterosexual image to deflect rumours about his sexuality. Three, Barber once again is correct when she points out the girlfriend shows up for grand slam semifinals and finals and occassional ATP events. The girlfriend is clearly a beard there is no relationship between her and Nadal she is just present to give Nadal an illusion of appearing straight.
Mmmm, sorry, not seeing the gay thing, he's bi at most, but definitely not gay. I'd agree he doesn't care much about his girlfriend though, if what I've been told is true.
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Old Dec 10th, 2012, 03:24 PM   #150
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Re: Why do tennis fans accept lesbian tennis stars yet no one in ATP out of closet?

If I was a player... I'd be out and about!

Catsuit? Check.
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