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Old Dec 5th, 2012, 07:45 AM   #421
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Re: Racism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halardfan View Post
Early in your post you attribute various negative qualities to some of your white acquaintances. Which seems a fair enough reflection of your personal experience.

Yet by the end of the post it's become "every damn one of them" you meet. That is more dubious.
What's your point?
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Old Dec 5th, 2012, 08:30 AM   #422
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Re: Racism?

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Originally Posted by الحاجّ مالك View Post
What's your point?
It's possible I'm misreading it but earlier in your post you attribute the negative qualities to some of your white acquaintances but later it has become "every damn one" you meet.

It's just both things can't be true at the same time. The first seems a lot more measured view than the second. Which represents your actual experience?
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Old Dec 5th, 2012, 08:46 AM   #423
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Re: Racism?

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Originally Posted by Halardfan View Post
It's possible I'm misreading it but earlier in your post you attribute the negative qualities to some of your white acquaintances but later it has become "every damn one" you meet.

It's just both things can't be true at the same time. The first seems a lot more measured view than the second. Which represents your actual experience?
Well that's the thing isn't it? Prejudice isn't exactly rational or neatly compartmental. The reality is that it's probably just some of the people I know that are like that, but I've come to attribute it to every white person I know, and even those that I don't, and this bias makes me hesitant to "get to know them in different situations", and possibly rid myself of the prejudices I have, as Cajka had suggested. This is why I asking Cajka (and anyone else that wants to answer) how one does this when your brain is compulsively picking out things from peoples behavior and interpreting them negatively?

Does that make sense?
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Old Dec 5th, 2012, 09:49 AM   #424
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Re: Racism?

http://www.tennisforum.com/showpost....3&postcount=49

i see that ashi made a valid point finally and the thread got closed......when you can't answer with logic, stay calm.....insults and reporting to mods and getting the thread closed is nothing to boast about......

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first learn to read, and then speak.....
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Old Dec 5th, 2012, 10:07 AM   #425
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Re: Racism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by الحاجّ مالك View Post
Well that's the thing isn't it? Prejudice isn't exactly rational or neatly compartmental. The reality is that it's probably just some of the people I know that are like that, but I've come to attribute it to every white person I know, and even those that I don't, and this bias makes me hesitant to "get to know them in different situations", and possibly rid myself of the prejudices I have, as Cajka had suggested. This is why I asking Cajka (and anyone else that wants to answer) how one does this when your brain is compulsively picking out things from peoples behavior and interpreting them negatively?

Does that make sense?
Yes it makes sensend at least you seem aware of the problem.

I dont think there is an easy answer, just if you have a bad experience with someone who is white, blame that person for that and hold the individual responsible dont focus on the race to which they happen to belong.

Some people of every race are assholes, avoid the assholes of whatever race, embrace the nice people of whatever race, nobody is perfect but do your best, and good things hopefully will happen.
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Old Dec 5th, 2012, 10:12 AM   #426
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Re: Racism?

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Originally Posted by Halardfan View Post
Yes it makes sensend at least you seem aware of the problem.

I dont think there is an easy answer, just if you have a bad experience with someone who is white, blame that person for that and hold the individual responsible dont focus on the race to which they happen to belong.

Some people of every race are assholes, avoid the assholes of whatever race, embrace the nice people of whatever race, nobody is perfect but do your best, and good things hopefully will happen.
best post of the thread......that is the only solution......
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Old Dec 5th, 2012, 02:56 PM   #427
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Re: Racism?

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Why didn't you fix it for me since you cared so much?
What's that you said about not feeding trolls?
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Old Dec 5th, 2012, 05:18 PM   #428
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Re: Racism?

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Originally Posted by الحاجّ مالك View Post
Well since we're being upfront. I find some of the white acquaintances I have to be condescending, superficial and insincere. Every time I talk to them they're either complaining about something/someone or saying something to make themselves appear superior to others. They also talk way too loud and feel the need to dominate conversations. It's very annoying and I do not enjoy being around them.

I try not to generalize or judge people on the basis of other people's actions, but every damn one of them I meet behaves like this. It's a prejudice I have, I know, but how do you overcome prejudices if said people consistently exemplify whatever it is you find irritating about them?
This reminds me of what I see from a couple of african american posters on this board. For example, I find that some of them tend to bring the race card everytime someone gets into a heated discussion or disagrees with them. Thankfully I have black friends and aquaintances in real life (and on this board) and none of them has ever brought the race card when it's clearly not relevant so I didn't develop that prejudice.
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Old Dec 5th, 2012, 05:46 PM   #429
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Re: Racism?

I'm interested in reading some perspectives from Europe about the tensions between the longtime residents and the immigrants from the Islamic countries; including within the huge landmass of Russia, when darker-skinned ppl move to the big cities from the largely Islamic places on its southern rim (be they inside the post-Soviet Russian borders or not) to cities like Moscow and St. Petersburg.

Of course in newly impoverished Greece, a party that seems neo-Nazi (Golden Dawn) has suddenly become politically relevant, though only the 4th largest group in Parliament. Also interesting are things like relations between the "whiter" and the more indigenous ppl in South America, Australia, and other non-US places where there was European colonization in centuries past.
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Old Dec 5th, 2012, 07:03 PM   #430
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Re: Racism?

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Originally Posted by LBV. View Post
Yes. You have to look at the power of discourse, and how our words create our social reality. The reason why racist jokes are funny is that they reinforce base prejudices and reflect power differentials. Proof of this is the fact that there are very few racist jokes applicable to white people, but a multitude for every other group of people on Earth.
Actually, I don't joke about that with my friends, but I do with my family to mock the actual racists. Does it make me a racist ? It's like we are saying how black people should be banned from France then we burst into in laughter because we really can't believe some people seriously think so, and as we are in family, we know each other. We caricature racist people, if you want. It's exactly the same with homophobic people or those assholes who mocked me because I was deaf. My own family mocks my deafness, can you believe it?

I know that if I heard a friend or an acquaintance saying that even for "joking", I would be unsure, because like you said, that might reinforce prejudices... Like I had those friends, they once joked about that... it didn't make me laugh at all, because yeah it might give them the impression I actually agreed with them for the wrong reasons. And I was right. They brought it during a serious political discussion I was trying to avoid. They actually used the joke as an argument without the joking undertone "there are too many Black people" "they are thugs"

Omg I remember, I have a friend, he once told me "You know I am not racist at all, I have black friends, but let's be real, black people are usually more violent, especially in local crimes, while black people are usually very violent at national/international grade crimes" WTF It's sooo racist I can't even. He even said black people are dumber, since "the less smart one of your class is often black" WTF ?
Anyway, I don't talk to him anymore, but wow...... and he was still claiming to not be a racist....
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Old Dec 5th, 2012, 07:14 PM   #431
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Re: Racism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by *JR* View Post
I'm interested in reading some perspectives from Europe about the tensions between the longtime residents and the immigrants from the Islamic countries; including within the huge landmass of Russia, when darker-skinned ppl move to the big cities from the largely Islamic places on its southern rim (be they inside the post-Soviet Russian borders or not) to cities like Moscow and St. Petersburg.

Of course in newly impoverished Greece, a party that seems neo-Nazi (Golden Dawn) has suddenly become politically relevant, though only the 4th largest group in Parliament. Also interesting are things like relations between the "whiter" and the more indigenous ppl in South America, Australia, and other non-US places where there was European colonization in centuries past.
In France, more and more people have a problem with Muslim people and seem to forgt they are not all Islamic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LBV. View Post
I am not an unreasonable guy, and I try to be pragmatic about this stuff in everyday practice.

It would be jarring and offensive, but I understand that they come from a different culture, and they may not know the social implications of that word. I'd just explain it to them openly and honestly, and from my experience, every Asian person I have had a discussion like that with has been open, empathetic and understanding (I recently had an experience with an Asian woman in one of my classes who made a very homophobic statement about gay men, but I could tell that she didn't know the full implications of what she was saying in an American social context.) Hell, even with White people, I am open to giving them the benefit of the doubt, by just explaining to them why its offensive without castigating them.

I only get annoyed by the white people who know better and still use those words just because they are assholes that don't care if they are offensive, or the white people who are mind-numbingly resistant to even understanding my point of view, and unwilling to show the respect that I deserve as a human being.

Totally this.

Actually... I was part of a group on Chatzy, we were all watching a few tv shows when it was airing, it was really nice. And we were bonding over that, talking about a lot of other things. And I don't remember why , but someone said "Nigga I am done".

In French, I absolutely loathe the word "nègre" (which is the N word in french), I never used it in my life, my parents taught me that. And yeah... I totally think it's normal not to use it anyway... And I don't know why, but I didn't look up what nigga meant I was so damn ignorant, I thought it was a word added to "I am done" for a comic effect or something.
But my friend (who is black) told me "no Deb, please don't use that. It's offensive" and she took the time to explain me why, and I was horrified I used that word. I had no idea. I never used that word again.

But... there were other people who still used that word on Chatzy AND Twitter, even though my friend tried to explain to them. So my friend was actually hurt to read all those words, and I was sad for her, I tried to message them to tell them to stop, but they never did.

I've been also told that word was more offensive in the States than in other places.
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Old Dec 5th, 2012, 08:46 PM   #432
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Re: Racism?

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What's that you said about not feeding trolls?
You have a nerve, I've probably responded to a post by plantman once in 6 months or longer and you call me out.
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Old Dec 5th, 2012, 09:06 PM   #433
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Re: Racism?

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You have a nerve, I've probably responded to a post by plantman once in 6 months or longer and you call me out.
Now that I have him on ignore, I expect everyone to follow suit. j/k
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Old Dec 5th, 2012, 09:48 PM   #434
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Re: Racism?

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Originally Posted by Say Hey Kid View Post
Racism is a tricky subject. Stereotypes are almost exclusively developed for a reason.

If I encounter a black dude who dresses like a "thug", I'd obviously be more cautious about being mugged than if I encountered an asian dude with a suit.

If I encounter an Arab on a NYC bus with a large duffle bag , obviously the likelyhood of it being a bomb is greater than an old black/white american carrying a bag -- at least that is my mentality. That is also common sense.

If I hire a Jewish banker, he is more likely to be greedy and engage in a ponzi scheme of some sort, even though he already is rich as hell (Bernie Madoff, Rothschild family, and other Jews have illustrated they behave in that fashion on occasion).

If I encounter an average white yuppie he is more likely to be a superficial douchebag.


Everyone is "racist" to a degree.

When you don't know someone at all, initially, you will make judgements about them regarding their outside apperance.

After you get to know someone, everyone is different, and it is silly to hate a single group of people because of a few bad apples. Most blacks arent thugs. Most Arabs aren't terrorists. Most Jews aren't greedy. Most white folks aren't douchebags.

Every race/religion has their flaws in this world, but you have to judge everyone as an individual. At the same time, if you don't know someone be cautious and use common sense, while still giving them the benefit od the doubt.
all this is "true" but problems begin when you have some sort of power over them.

like those police officers from my city which beat up an african american teacher because they confused him for a drug dealer. it "makes sense" because it's true that most drug dealers on the streets here are black. so, "common sense" is to assume that anyone who is black is a potential drug dealer and if they react with panic you also use a bit of violence. makes sense

for the same drug dealer reputation africans have it made perfect sense that the now husband of my friend was not allowed into a club a few years ago. it pissed her off because she used to work and spend so much time there. yup, common sense

it also makes perfect sense for those english police officers who killed that brazilian guy because they thought he was a potential suicide bomber. it makes perfect "common sense". he looked southern (who cares about those differences between latinos and arabs, their hair is black and their skin colour is dark), so there was a vague possibility of him being a terrorist, so shoot him, so he can't do any terrorist things, just in case. common sense

racial profiling is based on this "common sense" way of thinking.
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Old Dec 5th, 2012, 09:51 PM   #435
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Re: Racism?

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Originally Posted by fantic View Post
Thank you



True. But I hate the implying nuance of JR's post that Koreans are inferior or sub-culture or whatever They're just different, as dybbuk observed. And get your history straight first, JR Korea was occupied by China and Japan for a long time? What a load of bullshit Korean's at times irrational pride is based on their maintaining independence all those years There's Chinese, Japanese, and Korean culture. Korea was in fact more Confucian than China, for instance. Of course all Eastern Asia can be largely grouped as under the influence of China, but that's about it. And there's nothing significantly different about Japan that merits them as a different civilization or culture Their major departure began at 1864 or something, Meiji revolution? That's not culturally different at all, is it? Those attempts are just based on their power nation status from the early 20th century, nothing more. Either you group them all under Chinese culture, or take those 3 separately. Japan was FOR YEARS a backward nation receiving cultural help from Korea. Nothing culturally different about them.
Although, I think JR's previous post was quite baseless, I don't think it really implied Korea was inferior. I don't think it was a strongly held opinion either.

Also, it's not quite fair to say that Japan was "backward."

The Japanese did introduce 고추 to Korea, didn't they? That became a HUGE part of the culinary scene and food is a big part of Korean culture!

Are you Korean? Do you know why Korean people look down on the Chinese so much? I always called my students and my friends up on it but I never really got to the bottom of why China is viewed as something "beneath" Korea.
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